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Burnfreak888

Questions about PIPO Scanning and Quality Rating

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Hi !!! I just recently purchased a Sony Optiarc AD-7240S with the latest FW. I purchased it because of good test results with MKM-03-00 and ImgBurn in the drives section. And I only burn with MKM-03-00. I tried it once on ImgBurn 2.5.1.0 with a MKM-03-00. Tried to burn it at 2.4x but it won't. Instead it burned at 4x. I understand that only MKM-01-00 can burn with 2.4x.

 

I scanned the burn result with DVDInfo. Its quality rating is 91.85%. The result is a little less satisfactory than the result from the Drives section in this forum. The test results from Drives section were between 93%-94%. The PI errors are averaging under 8 and PI failures are averaging at 2. While mine for PI errors are averaging at 8 in layer 0 and 32 in layer 1. PI failures are averaging between 5 and 6.

 

I've been wondering if the result was good enough coz before this, I burned 20 pieces of MKM-03-00 with an old burner, a Sony DRU-720A at 2.4x and getting quality ratings at 98-99% consistently. I believe my old burner has poor DL support so with my new AD-7240S, I should be getting better ??? Or maybe I interpreted the PIPO scans wrong ??? What is 'satisfactory' and what's not ??? What can I do to get better results ??? Or is it the media ??? The quality is just 'off' a little on this one ??? Anybody has the same experience ???

 

I want everyone's opinion on this and kindly give me insights if I can make a better burn maybe with better settings with AD-7240S.

 

 

Here's the PIPO scan for my 1st AD-7240S burn :

 

 

RR6_PIPO_scan.png

 

 

Here's the graph data of my 1st AD-7240S burn :

 

 

RR6_IBG.png

 

 

Here's the log of my 1st AD-7240S burn :

 

 

I 20:20:26 ImgBurn Version 2.5.1.0 started!

I 20:20:26 Microsoft Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600 : Service Pack 3)

I 20:20:26 Total Physical Memory: 2,095,828 KB - Available: 1,398,492 KB

I 20:20:26 Initialising SPTI...

I 20:20:26 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...

I 20:20:26 -> Drive 1 - Info: Optiarc DVD RW AD-7240S 1.03 (H:) (ATA)

I 20:20:26 -> Drive 2 - Info: SONY DVD-ROM DDU1621 S3.4 (D:) (ATA)

I 20:20:26 Found 1 DVD-ROM and 1 DVD±RW/RAM!

I 20:20:44 Operation Started!

I 20:20:44 Source File: S:\RR6.dvd

I 20:20:44 Source File Sectors: 3,697,696 (MODE1/2048)

I 20:20:44 Source File Size: 7,572,881,408 bytes

I 20:20:44 Source File Volume Identifier: RR6

I 20:20:44 Source File Volume Set Identifier: 33479a57

I 20:20:44 Source File Implementation Identifier: ImgBurn

I 20:20:44 Source File File System(s): ISO9660, UDF (1.02)

I 20:20:44 Destination Device: [5:0:0] Optiarc DVD RW AD-7240S 1.03 (H:) (ATA)

I 20:20:44 Destination Media Type: DVD+R DL (Disc ID: MKM-003-00) (Speeds: 4x, 6x, 8x)

I 20:20:44 Destination Media Sectors: 4,173,824

I 20:20:44 Write Mode: DVD

I 20:20:44 Write Type: DAO

I 20:20:44 Write Speed: 2.4x

I 20:20:44 Link Size: Auto

I 20:20:44 Lock Volume: Yes

I 20:20:44 Test Mode: No

I 20:20:44 OPC: No

I 20:20:44 BURN-Proof: Enabled

W 20:20:44 Write Speed Miscompare! - Wanted: 3,324 KB/s (2.4x), Got: 5,540 KB/s (4x)

I 20:20:44 Book Type Setting: DVD-ROM

I 20:20:44 User Specified L0 Data Zone Capacity: 1,913,760

I 20:20:50 Set L0 Data Zone Capacity Succeeded!

I 20:20:50 Filling Buffer... (40 MB)

I 20:20:51 Writing LeadIn...

I 20:20:55 Writing Session 1 of 1... (1 Track, LBA: 0 - 3697695)

I 20:20:55 Writing Track 1 of 1... (MODE1/2048, LBA: 0 - 3697695)

I 20:20:55 Writing Layer 0... (LBA: 0 - 1913759)

I 20:32:54 Writing Layer 1... (LBA: 1913760 - 3697695)

I 20:44:14 Synchronising Cache...

I 20:44:15 Closing Track...

I 20:44:30 Finalising Disc...

I 20:46:20 Exporting Graph Data...

I 20:46:20 Graph Data File: C:\Documents and Settings\Burnfreak888\Application Data\ImgBurn\Graph Data Files\Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7240S_1.03_SUNDAY-MARCH-21-2010_8-20_PM_MKM-003-00_2.4x.ibg

I 20:46:20 Export Successfully Completed!

I 20:46:20 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:25:35

I 20:46:20 Average Write Rate: 5,289 KB/s (3.8x) - Maximum Write Rate: 6,012 KB/s (4.3x)

I 20:46:20 Cycling Tray before Verify...

W 20:46:29 Waiting for device to become ready...

I 20:46:40 Device Ready!

I 20:46:41 Operation Started!

I 20:46:41 Source Device: [5:0:0] Optiarc DVD RW AD-7240S 1.03 (H:) (ATA)

I 20:46:41 Source Media Type: DVD+R DL (Book Type: DVD-ROM) (Disc ID: MKM-003-00) (Speeds: 4x, 6x, 8x)

I 20:46:41 Image File: S:\RR6.dvd

I 20:46:41 Image File Sectors: 3,697,696 (MODE1/2048)

I 20:46:41 Image File Size: 7,572,881,408 bytes

I 20:46:41 Image File Volume Identifier: RR6

I 20:46:41 Image File Volume Set Identifier: 33479a57

I 20:46:41 Image File Implementation Identifier: ImgBurn

I 20:46:41 Image File File System(s): ISO9660, UDF (1.02)

I 20:46:41 Read Speed (Data/Audio): MAX / MAX

I 20:46:41 Verifying Session 1 of 1... (1 Track, LBA: 0 - 3697695)

I 20:46:41 Verifying Track 1 of 1... (MODE1/2048, LBA: 0 - 3697695)

I 20:46:41 Verifying Layer 0... (LBA: 0 - 1913759)

I 20:52:24 Verifying Layer 1... (LBA: 1913760 - 3697695)

I 20:57:29 Exporting Graph Data...

I 20:57:29 Graph Data File: C:\Documents and Settings\Burnfreak888\Application Data\ImgBurn\Graph Data Files\Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7240S_1.03_SUNDAY-MARCH-21-2010_8-20_PM_MKM-003-00_2.4x.ibg

I 20:57:29 Export Successfully Completed!

I 20:57:29 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:10:48

I 20:57:29 Average Verify Rate: 11,430 KB/s (8.3x) - Maximum Verify Rate: 16,167 KB/s (11.7x)

 

 

 

And here's the PIPO scan from one of my previous burn of MKM-03-00 with ImgBurn 2.4.2.0 and Sony DRU-720A firmware JY08 :

 

 

AC6_PIPO_Scan.png

Edited by Burnfreak888

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If you still have that DRU-720A installed, scan with that one instead. It gives more accurate values than the Optiarc.

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If you still have that DRU-720A installed, scan with that one instead. It gives more accurate values than the Optiarc.

 

Really ??? How can it be ??? I wish you could give me a little technical explanation. I'm learning and I'm all ears :)

 

In the meantime, I'm gonna scan the burn in the DRU-720A and gonna get back to post the result. Thank you.

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The DRU-720A is a re badged Lite-On. Lite-Ons and Benqs are nice DVD scanners.

 

This thread should give you some clues.

 

http://club.myce.com/f61/good-drive-scanning-only-185916/

 

There are also some nice guides in the top of this forum

 

http://club.myce.com/f96/

 

 

Whooaa, that is A LOT of reading materials there. Speed-read a few thread and I see ur points there. I also understand there's also this debate over Quality Scan Versus TRT. Haven't finished my reading though, I'm gonna educate myself later as to not complicating things that are already complicated in my brain :)

 

 

Back to the topic, I've scanned my 1st Optiarc burn with the DRU-720A BTW, and it gave me a result that I thought it would since the DRU is old. It gave me a lower quality rating which is 88.41%, down from 91.85% the Optiarc gave me. However Cynthia, you are right, I can see that the PI errors are better and the PI Failures are also better. I guess the lower quality rating is mainly caused by a spike around layer break. Had the spike not there, I'm pretty sure the quality rating would be better.

 

 

The questions are :

 

-Can I still trust my DRU-720A for quality scans even though it's old ???

 

-What caused that spike around the layer break ??? The burner's hiccupped, the media quality or the scanner read it wrong ???

 

-I hope you can assist me in the process of elimination here, can I safely exclude the burner as it is new ???

 

 

 

Here's the PNG of the PIPO scan result using DRU-720A of my 1st Optiarc burn :

 

 

RR6_PIPO_Scan_DRU720A.png

 

 

Thank you very much for your kind answers :)

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Can I still trust my DRU-720A for quality scans even though it's old ???

No idea. I once used an old SONY DVD RW DW-Q30A' drive, a re badged Lite-On SHW-1635S drive and that one performed well with scans and gave pretty much the same results as a later bought genuine Lite-On.

 

What caused that spike around the layer break ??? The burner's hiccupped, the media quality or the scanner read it wrong ???

I guess it was a game you burned. If it had been a DVD Video you could always have tried to play it assuming that there was video stuff at the layer break.

 

I've looked through my old scans and found one similar to yours. One spindle was "not so good" and these two disc from two different spindles are burnt at the same speed/burner (Optiarc 7200)/firmware and used the same scanner and gave totally different results. Note the spike at the same spot that you also have.

 

post-20-1269325463.png

 

post-20-126932546361.png

 

You could do a burn in the Discovery mode selecting all sectors and compare it to my burn at 4x with a disc from another spindle. The media I've used was from Singapore.

 

post-20-126932449513.png

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Hi Cynthia !!! Thank you for ur answers.

 

So let me put ur word in perspective, please CMIIW.

 

By saying this, you're implying that the media quality is the suspect and nothing can cause that kind of spike around the layer break except for media quality. Am I saying this right ??? Please CMIIW.

 

 

I did a lot of reading yesterday and find this :

 

It doesn't actually go back to the beginning at the layer change, it reads the second layer "backwards" as it were. The official name for a dual layer disc is RSDL, which stands for Reverse Spiral Dual Layer.

 

Is this true ??? I think this is relevant to my problem. If layer 1 starts from the outer area of discs then it would only make sense to have that spike as the dye quality at the outer area of discs is generally not good ??? Please CMIIW.

 

 

I also find this :

 

 

I've done disc quality tests at various speeds and with my combination of burner, firmware, and Verbatim 8X rated media, 8X gives the best quality burns. If I burned at 2.4X (which my burner doesn't even support with Verbatim MKM-003 discs - the slowest it will burn them at is 4X), the burn would take 40 minutes instead of 18 and I'd be getting worse quality burns. This wouldn't stop someone from telling me to burn at 2.4X though, lol.

 

Maybe we had those spikes because we burned 8x rated discs at 4x ??? Had we burn them at 8x, we would have a better quality rating ??? Have you ever conduct tests burning MKM-03-00 at 8x and comparing it burned at 4x ??? Do you always burn MKM-03-00 at 4x ??? Did you get a lot of this spike around layer break when burning MKM-03-00 at 4x ??? What is your lowest level of tolerance for quality rating ???

 

 

I apologize for asking a lot of questions. I'm still learning and I don't want to learn things wrong.

 

Thank you very much for ur kind answers in advance :)

Edited by Burnfreak888

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By saying this, you're implying that the media quality is the suspect and nothing can cause that kind of spike around the layer break except for media quality. Am I saying this right ???

 

 

 

 

Basically...although there are a lot of variable to take into consideration here ie. drive quality, firmware and media quality as well as compatibility with all the above.  Typically your burner will be the static variable with the media being dynamic, but you also have other things going on with your PC that can influence burn quality such as virus scanners, background operations etc.

 

Maybe we had those spikes because we burned 8x rated discs at 4x ??? Had we burn them at 8x, we would have a better quality rating ??? Have you ever conduct tests burning MKM-03-00 at 8x and comparing it burned at 4x ??? Do you always burn MKM-03-00 at 4x ??? Did you get a lot of this spike around layer break when burning MKM-03-00 at 4x ??? 

 

Back in the day it was suggested to burn as slow as possible for better quality burns, this logic can be reversed now.  Sometimes faster is better because media and firmware are designed for higher speeds....which also means slower is worse.

 

What is your lowest level of tolerance for quality rating ???

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.....

 

 

 

 

Lots of media has been tested for you here ~ http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?showtopic=2833

 

 

 

 

 

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Thank you very much for your answers, locoeng.

 

 

Basically...although there are a lot of variable to take into consideration here ie. drive quality, firmware and media quality as well as compatibility with all the above.  Typically your burner will be the static variable with the media being dynamic, but you also have other things going on with your PC that can influence burn quality such as virus scanners, background operations etc.

 

 

I am aware of all the variables and am in the process of troubleshooting and elimination. Since my AD-7240S is new, I guess it's not just static variable but ABSOLUTE static variable :)

 

 

Back in the day it was suggested to burn as slow as possible for better quality burns, this logic can be reversed now.  Sometimes faster is better because media and firmware are designed for higher speeds....which also means slower is worse.

 

 

Just learnt that from somewhere and trying to confirm that in here since I purchased the drive because of great test results with MKM-03-00 in the Drives section of this forum.

 

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.....

 

 

That's true...but I wanna see through your eyes or Cynthia's eyes. Let me see what you see. Tell me your preferences, I won't hold u ransom for it :) Just need a comparison point. I mean if we're talking standard deviation, the tolerance is between 3%-5%. Does that apply or some kind of number exist to say it suffice ???

 

 

Lots of media has been tested for you here ~ http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?showtopic=2833

 

Thank you for your help !!!

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I did a lot of reading yesterday and find this :

 

It doesn't actually go back to the beginning at the layer change, it reads the second layer "backwards" as it were. The official name for a dual layer disc is RSDL, which stands for Reverse Spiral Dual Layer.

 

Is this true ??? I think this is relevant to my problem. If layer 1 starts from the outer area of discs then it would only make sense to have that spike as the dye quality at the outer area of discs is generally not good ??? Please CMIIW.

Yes, it's OTP.

 

There is an image of it here:

 

http://books.google.se/books?id=ikxuL2aX9cAC&pg=PT248&lpg=PT248&dq=demystified+dvd+dual+layer&source=bl&ots=XwJV4E4MJP&sig=ciTp8nxFepRhdnbP8eH6KdHcJgM&hl=sv&ei=K2mpS9P1OtLh-QbAjqVr&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CBYQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=&f=false

 

 

I also find this :

 

 

I've done disc quality tests at various speeds and with my combination of burner, firmware, and Verbatim 8X rated media, 8X gives the best quality burns. If I burned at 2.4X (which my burner doesn't even support with Verbatim MKM-003 discs - the slowest it will burn them at is 4X), the burn would take 40 minutes instead of 18 and I'd be getting worse quality burns. This wouldn't stop someone from telling me to burn at 2.4X though, lol.

 

Maybe we had those spikes because we burned 8x rated discs at 4x ??? Had we burn them at 8x, we would have a better quality rating ??? Have you ever conduct tests burning MKM-03-00 at 8x and comparing it burned at 4x ??? Do you always burn MKM-03-00 at 4x ??? Did you get a lot of this spike around layer break when burning MKM-03-00 at 4x ??? What is your lowest level of tolerance for quality rating ???

I've burned that media code with all my burners at the speeds they support. Some likes it slower and some faster. You can find this media here at various speeds/burners combinations. You can also see the difference in results in using two different spindles. Some burners liked the other spindle better. So I do think that quality can vary even in the same spindle on DL media. I haven't fully added the burns on two other burners; the Pioneer 118 and Optiarc 7700. Will do that in the upcoming time.

 

The lowest tolerance would be when I see red colors in the upper part of the scan window or if there is a spike really high that might even have turned into red color. Bad reading will for sure give you pixelations, freezing and funny jumps when you play such a disc.

 

I was asked on another forum about a disc with green and yellow colors and if it would play without issues and I haven't seen any test in any forum about a "playable" test. The Discovery mode also makes unplayable discs so I need to burn some nice stuff to watch and see how well different levels of "crappy burns" really plays on a stand alone player. I got some nice cheap discs to test with. Just need to get the time for it. :(

 

If you burn games and play it in a PC I think it will be easier to read "bad burns" as regular DVD readers are much better readers than the cheap stuff they put in DVD Video standalone players.

 

http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?showtopic=9541

 

I apologize for asking a lot of questions. I'm still learning and I don't want to learn things wrong.

No problems. Just hope I don't give you any wrong answers. :rolleyes:

 

Did you get another spindle to do a new burn with to see if the spike issue was on that burn also?

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Thanks for the info !!! :)

 

 

I've burned that media code with all my burners at the speeds they support. Some likes it slower and some faster. You can find this media here at various speeds/burners combinations. You can also see the difference in results in using two different spindles. Some burners liked the other spindle better. So I do think that quality can vary even in the same spindle on DL media. I haven't fully added the burns on two other burners; the Pioneer 118 and Optiarc 7700. Will do that in the upcoming time.

 

The lowest tolerance would be when I see red colors in the upper part of the scan window or if there is a spike really high that might even have turned into red color. Bad reading will for sure give you pixelations, freezing and funny jumps when you play such a disc.

 

I was asked on another forum about a disc with green and yellow colors and if it would play without issues and I haven't seen any test in any forum about a "playable" test. The Discovery mode also makes unplayable discs so I need to burn some nice stuff to watch and see how well different levels of "crappy burns" really plays on a stand alone player. I got some nice cheap discs to test with. Just need to get the time for it. :(

 

If you burn games and play it in a PC I think it will be easier to read "bad burns" as regular DVD readers are much better readers than the cheap stuff they put in DVD Video standalone players.

 

http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?showtopic=9541

 

 

 

So green with a red spike is a no no while green with yellows are still a grey area ???

 

 

Did you get another spindle to do a new burn with to see if the spike issue was on that burn also?

 

 

Well, my 1st Optiarc burn IS from another spindle apart from those burns with the DRU-720A where I got 98%-99% quality rating. I haven't bought another spindle yet. For me this MKM-03-00 is still very costly, so I bought them only in a spindle of 10. This spindle I still got 5 left I think. I will buy another after this 5. In the meantime, I'm more than encouraged to burn the rest at 8x. The 2nd Optiarc burn will be at 8x for sure and I will post the result.

 

 

Thank you for your kind answers, Cynthia !!! :)

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I cannot believe my eyes, I just did my 2nd Optiarc burn with MKM-03-00 at 8x and I'm getting a worse burn :(

 

I cannot believe I'm getting it with a new and recommended burner with a high quality media !!!

 

I can't believe how all these MKM-03-00 I'm burning recently are not living up to its name.

 

From what I've learned so far, this shouldn't be happening. Or not ???

 

I am dumbfounded and I feel like I wanna yank my hair.

 

I still hold the brand Sony Optiarc and Verbatim high so this time I'm suspecting my scanner since it is old. Would an old scanner fail to scan ??? Should I purchase a new drive for scanning ???

 

 

 

Anyway here's the log, IBG and PIPO Scan of my 2nd Optiarc burn with MKM-03-00 at 8x :

 

 

I 18:11:57 ImgBurn Version 2.5.1.0 started!

I 18:11:57 Microsoft Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600 : Service Pack 3)

I 18:11:57 Total Physical Memory: 2,095,828 KB - Available: 1,641,864 KB

I 18:11:57 Initialising SPTI...

I 18:11:57 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...

I 18:11:57 -> Drive 1 - Info: Optiarc DVD RW AD-7240S 1.03 (H:) (ATA)

I 18:11:57 -> Drive 2 - Info: SONY DVD RW DRU-720A JY08 (D:) (ATA)

I 18:11:57 Found 1 DVD±RW and 1 DVD±RW/RAM!

I 18:13:00 Operation Started!

I 18:13:00 Source File: S:\L4DG.dvd

I 18:13:00 Source File Sectors: 3,827,488 (MODE1/2048)

I 18:13:00 Source File Size: 7,838,695,424 bytes

I 18:13:00 Source File Volume Identifier: DVD_ROM

I 18:13:00 Source File Volume Set Identifier: L4DG

I 18:13:00 Source File Application Identifier: IMGBURN V2.5.1.0 - THE ULTIMATE IMAGE BURNER!

I 18:13:00 Source File Implementation Identifier: ImgBurn

I 18:13:00 Source File File System(s): ISO9660, UDF (1.50)

I 18:13:00 Destination Device: [2:0:0] Optiarc DVD RW AD-7240S 1.03 (H:) (ATA)

I 18:13:00 Destination Media Type: DVD+R DL (Disc ID: MKM-003-00) (Speeds: 4x, 6x, 8x)

I 18:13:00 Destination Media Sectors: 4,173,824

I 18:13:00 Write Mode: DVD

I 18:13:00 Write Type: DAO

I 18:13:00 Write Speed: 8x

I 18:13:00 Link Size: Auto

I 18:13:00 Lock Volume: Yes

I 18:13:00 Test Mode: No

I 18:13:00 OPC: No

I 18:13:00 BURN-Proof: Enabled

I 18:13:00 Write Speed Successfully Set! - Effective: 11,080 KB/s (8x)

I 18:13:00 Book Type Setting: DVD-ROM

I 18:13:00 User Specified L0 Data Zone Capacity: 1,913,760

I 18:13:10 Set L0 Data Zone Capacity Succeeded!

I 18:13:10 Filling Buffer... (40 MB)

I 18:13:10 Writing LeadIn...

I 18:13:15 Writing Session 1 of 1... (1 Track, LBA: 0 - 3827487)

I 18:13:15 Writing Track 1 of 1... (MODE1/2048, LBA: 0 - 3827487)

I 18:13:15 Writing Layer 0... (LBA: 0 - 1913759)

I 18:21:44 Writing Layer 1... (LBA: 1913760 - 3827487)

I 18:30:22 Synchronising Cache...

I 18:30:23 Closing Track...

I 18:30:37 Finalising Disc...

I 18:31:24 Exporting Graph Data...

I 18:31:24 Graph Data File: C:\Documents and Settings\Burnfreak888\Application Data\ImgBurn\Graph Data Files\Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7240S_1.03_WEDNESDAY-MARCH-24-2010_6-13_PM_MKM-003-00_8x.ibg

I 18:31:24 Export Successfully Completed!

I 18:31:24 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:18:24

I 18:31:24 Average Write Rate: 7,453 KB/s (5.4x) - Maximum Write Rate: 11,600 KB/s (8.4x)

I 18:31:24 Cycling Tray before Verify...

W 18:31:33 Waiting for device to become ready...

I 18:31:45 Device Ready!

I 18:31:45 Operation Started!

I 18:31:45 Source Device: [2:0:0] Optiarc DVD RW AD-7240S 1.03 (H:) (ATA)

I 18:31:45 Source Media Type: DVD+R DL (Book Type: DVD-ROM) (Disc ID: MKM-003-00) (Speeds: 4x, 6x, 8x)

I 18:31:45 Image File: S:\L4DG.dvd

I 18:31:45 Image File Sectors: 3,827,488 (MODE1/2048)

I 18:31:45 Image File Size: 7,838,695,424 bytes

I 18:31:45 Image File Volume Identifier: DVD_ROM

I 18:31:45 Image File Volume Set Identifier: L4DG

I 18:31:45 Image File Application Identifier: IMGBURN V2.5.1.0 - THE ULTIMATE IMAGE BURNER!

I 18:31:45 Image File Implementation Identifier: ImgBurn

I 18:31:45 Image File File System(s): ISO9660, UDF (1.50)

I 18:31:45 Read Speed (Data/Audio): MAX / MAX

I 18:31:45 Verifying Session 1 of 1... (1 Track, LBA: 0 - 3827487)

I 18:31:45 Verifying Track 1 of 1... (MODE1/2048, LBA: 0 - 3827487)

I 18:31:45 Verifying Layer 0... (LBA: 0 - 1913759)

I 18:37:29 Verifying Layer 1... (LBA: 1913760 - 3827487)

I 18:43:10 Exporting Graph Data...

I 18:43:10 Graph Data File: C:\Documents and Settings\Burnfreak888\Application Data\ImgBurn\Graph Data Files\Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7240S_1.03_WEDNESDAY-MARCH-24-2010_6-13_PM_MKM-003-00_8x.ibg

I 18:43:10 Export Successfully Completed!

I 18:43:10 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:11:24

I 18:43:10 Average Verify Rate: 11,191 KB/s (8.1x) - Maximum Verify Rate: 16,141 KB/s (11.7x)

 

 

 

L4DG_IBG.png

 

 

 

L4DG_PIPO_Scan.png

Edited by Burnfreak888

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Should I purchase a new drive for scanning ???

 

 

 

 

Why not scan it with your 7240?

 

 

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Should I purchase a new drive for scanning ???

 

 

 

 

Why not scan it with your 7240?

 

Hi !!! Thank you for your question.

 

If u read my earlier post in this thread OR reading this thread from the very beginning, which I'm sure you did, you will find that kind Cynthia passed on information to me to not use the AD-7240S for scanning and told me that my older DRU-720A is a rebadged Lite-On which are a good if not better, scanner.

 

So I did take her advice and rescan a burn with my older DRU-720A (which I previously scanned with the Optiarc before). Comparing the results, I found that indeed the PI errors and PI Failures are BETTER with the DRU-720A but with a drop in the quality rating caused by an PI error spike around the layer break (you can see them in my earlier posts). So at that time, looks like the culprit is the media.

 

Later on, I did a lot of reading/browsing to find out that Lite-Ons and BenQs are better scanners than Optiarcs due to the inability for jitter scanning. (Please CMIIW on this :))

 

With all these information accumulated, I can only ASSUME that it is a waste of time to scan with the Optiarc as I previously had poorer scan result with it. BUT I'm more than willing to prove myself wrong by just scanning my 2nd burn with the Optiarc, which in the meantime I'm hesitating to do as to not contradict my previous troubleshooting/elimination effort. Maybe I will if I hit a wall in the process of troubleshooting/elimination. :)

 

As of now, I'm suspecting my DRU-720A drive and tray mechanism for not being properly lubed OR my case airflow.

 

Do you have any kind of suggestion/information/advice/experience for this kind of problem ??? I'm all ears. :)

 

Is it my scanner or the media ??? If it is the scanner I can live with that but if it's the media I'm gonna have some complaining to do to my supplier. :)

 

Thank you for your help in advance :)

Edited by Burnfreak888

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If you have some regular Verbatim single layer disc you could burn one of these and scan it in the Sony to see if you get decent values with that scan compared to the ones I've posted in the Drive/Media section. That should give you a hint on how good it's of scanning.

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If you have some regular Verbatim single layer disc you could burn one of these and scan it in the Sony to see if you get decent values with that scan compared to the ones I've posted in the Drive/Media section. That should give you a hint on how good it's of scanning.

 

 

I got one disc left and it's Verbatim DVD-R 16x TYG03, would that suffice ???

 

 

At what speed should I write with it ??? I am now thinking to go back to the lowest supported speed instead of maximum speed supported. But somewhere I read not to write with lower than half of maximum supported speed ??? So if it's 16x I shouldn't write with less than 8x ??? Please guide me on this. :)

 

 

I've looked at the Media section on TYG03 and found only one Optiarc drive that has been tested with TYG03 and it's Optiarc DVD RW AD-7173A 1-01 (SCSI). Would comparing my result with that result relevant enough ???

 

 

I found one interesting fact today, like I said before, as of now I'm suspecting my case airflow and when I put the TY03 today in my Optiarc just to see the media code for a few minutes, it felt really warm like it shouldn't be. I've read somewhere to not use the very top bay, but it is not. It's the 2nd bay from the top. The top is the DRU-720A. Would this setup bring any kind of trouble ???

 

 

Just for the record, I am still using a 3.0 GHz Pentium 4 HT which is very hot by today standards. I made my case airflow to have a negative pressure by having 2 intake fans with 2 exhaust fans + PSU fan (counts as an exhaust). I got 2 sticks of DDR, 2 HDDs and an old AGP graphic card. Rearranged my cables with cable ties making more room and less obstacle inside my case. I did leave my PC ON all day. Would this setup somehow ruin the dye quality before and while burning ??? If it is, how can I achieve a significant number of burns (with quality and cheap media, with singles and DLs) with 98%-99% quality rating before with this setup ??? I tried to google on the subject with no luck. Please educate me on this. :)

 

 

I'm trying to trace a connection between my airflow and me having a very mixed MKM-03-00 quality. I still believe that this Verbatims shouldn't be this mixed and I'm suspecting my airflow to somehow ruin the dye quality before and while burning. Is this possible ??? Please CMIIW. :)

 

 

I really appreciate everyone who take a little from their precious time to provide answers to my questions. :)

 

Thank you all and special thanks to Cynthia who's been very kind and helpful. :)

Edited by Burnfreak888

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Never tested any -R Verbs with TY code. So I have no clue. Will be getting some soon. The AD-7173A is not one of the best burners IMHO. But I think you should expect "decent" values if you burn it with your burner and scan it. Between 4x and 8x is normally where Optiarcs performs bests.

 

For the air thing. My computer is a tower model where the side panel never found it's way back where it should be. Instead all of my hard disk are located on the floor outside the tower and there are no fans/coolings that makes any airflows on my burners. So I doubt that heat should be an issue for you.

 

That burners can behave odd is for sure. I have a Pioneer 118 that I can't burn MKM-03-00 at 8x speed without a verify error. A guy in Stockholm can burn them with good results. Even tried other spindles from different countries, but no luck at 8x. :(

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Never tested any -R Verbs with TY code. So I have no clue. Will be getting some soon. The AD-7173A is not one of the best burners IMHO. But I think you should expect "decent" values if you burn it with your burner and scan it. Between 4x and 8x is normally where Optiarcs performs bests.

 

For the air thing. My computer is a tower model where the side panel never found it's way back where it should be. Instead all of my hard disk are located on the floor outside the tower and there are no fans/coolings that makes any airflows on my burners. So I doubt that heat should be an issue for you.

 

That burners can behave odd is for sure. I have a Pioneer 118 that I can't burn MKM-03-00 at 8x speed without a verify error. A guy in Stockholm can burn them with good results. Even tried other spindles from different countries, but no luck at 8x. :(

 

 

 

Thank you very much for ur answers Cynthia !!!

 

 

You live in the northern hemisphere while I live near the equator. I'm sure there's difference with the heat issue ??? Or not ??? Nothing can ruin dye quality except for burning process and manufacturing process ???

 

 

So even if my Optiarc is new that doesn't mean it will behave properly. I see. Maybe I'll have to wait for a newer FW ??? That means I'm gonna go back to the 'slower speed better burn' myth. :)

 

 

I'm thinking of doing MediaCodeSpeedEdit to make the AD-7240S burn the MKM-03-00 at 2.4x because I got 98%-99% quality ratings with MKM-03-00 burned at 2.4x with the DRU before, would you recommend it or advise against it ??? If I do the MediaCodeSpeedEdit just for the sake of testing purpose, can I undo it ???

 

 

BTW, I scanned some of my old MKM-03-00 DLs with the DRU and getting nice results. This means that my DRU-720A is still dependable for scanning. But what intrigues me is that the DRU wouldn't recognize all of my DLs. When it recognizes, I get a 91%-99% quality ratings. But when it doesn't, the DRU makes noises like it's trying hard to read the disc. It makes noise like : rrrrrr then stops then rrrrrr then stops and this goes for about 8 times before it really stopped. And when I go into DVDInfo and try to start a PIPO scan on it, DVDInfo gives 'Waiting For Device To Become Ready' message and freezes. When I open Task Manager it would say DVDInfo not responding so I had to kill it.

 

 

The statistics are as follows :

 

-Total burned DLs are about 29 discs and all are MKM-03-00 and burned with DRU-720A and ImgBurn at 2.4x.

-From that total, 22 are recognized and 7 aren't.

-From the 22 that are recognized, 17 have quality ratings between 91%-99% and 5 have quality ratings between 51%-73% (Only 1 has 51.75% while the rest have above 70%)

-The 7 that aren't recognized, I gave them a try with the Optiarc and the Optiarc recognizes them. So I scanned them and they have quality ratings between 55%-86%. (Only 1 got 55.92%, 2 is all green and the rest is greens and yellows)

 

 

My question is : Looking at the statistics, what do you have to say ??? The burner or the media or both ???

 

With all these information and looking at my 2nd Optiarc burn scan result, I'm gonna say it's the media. Please CMIIW.

 

I'm gonna do my 3rd Optiarc burn at 4x after this, hope it turns out satisfactory enough before I decide to yell at my supplier tomorrow. :)

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Never experimented with MediaCodeSpeedEdit and swapping strategies. It was common when I had my Nec 1300 and that gave mixed results. If it should give you crappy results, it shouldn't be any issues to reflash it with another firmware again. Never had any flash issues with a Nec/Optiarc.

 

DVDInfoPro is pretty easy to get to crash.

 

Optiarcs are much better readers than Lite-On drives for scratched/dirty discs so it makes sense that it can read what the Sony rejects to read. The noises could be where it has problems reading and should then give a red area in the scan.

 

Any feeling that the level of high scores in the scanning could be affected on how much/little it was burned on the discs? (How much GB it was put on the disc)

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Never experimented with MediaCodeSpeedEdit and swapping strategies. It was common when I had my Nec 1300 and that gave mixed results. If it should give you crappy results, it shouldn't be any issues to reflash it with another firmware again. Never had any flash issues with a Nec/Optiarc.

 

Got it. I will experiment and post the result.

 

 

DVDInfoPro is pretty easy to get to crash.

 

Do you have a better recommendation ???

 

 

Optiarcs are much better readers than Lite-On drives for scratched/dirty discs so it makes sense that it can read what the Sony rejects to read. The noises could be where it has problems reading and should then give a red area in the scan.

 

All DLs are only 2 months old and they are smoother than baby skin !!! I put them in plastic case, 1 case for 1 disc. Not a scratch let alone a fingerprint. That's why I don't understand how the DRU is being picky.

 

 

Any feeling that the level of high scores in the scanning could be affected on how much/little it was burned on the discs? (How much GB it was put on the disc)

 

I'm not sure I understand where ur going but if I have to answer, the answer is no. I always fill them with at least 7 GBs. And what do you mean by that ??? Is there really a connection between the amount of data of burned and the quality rating ??? Please do educate me. :)

Edited by Burnfreak888

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Do you have a better recommendation ???

No. There is OptiDriveControl, but I still feel like it's still in beta and there is no final % number of the quality score.

 

My crashes happens when another program tries to "steal" the drive from DVDInfoPro as that program doesn't lock the drive.

 

It was not so much fingerprints & Co, more that the burn was perhaps "crappy" at those places it made sounds and it had an issue reading it.

 

The size and quality was just if there was a common line on the level of the quality of the burns depending on the sizes. I hardly ever scan not fully filled discs as I use the Discovery mode to test & scan.

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Hi !!! I just finished my 3rd and 4th Optiarc burns. I scanned them both with the DRU-720A and the AD-7240S. Please compare this results with my 2nd Optiarc burn as they are sort of identical. Please take a look below.

 

 

My 2nd Optiarc burn with ImgBurn 2.5.1.0 at 8x and scanned with DRU-720A :

 

 

L4DG_1_PIPO_Scan.png

 

 

My 2nd Optiarc burn with ImgBurn 2.5.1.0 at 8x and scanned with AD-7240S :

 

 

L4DG_1_PIPO_Scan_Optiarc.png

 

 

My 3rd Optiarc burn with ImgBurn 2.5.1.0 at 4x and scanned with DRU-720A :

 

 

L4DG_2_PIPO_Scan.png

 

 

My 3rd Optiarc burn with ImgBurn 2.5.1.0 at 4x and scanned with AD-7240S :

 

 

L4DG_2_PIPO_Scan_Optiarc.png

 

 

My 4th Optiarc burn with ImgBurn 2.5.1.0 at 4x and scanned with DRU-720A :

 

 

MadX_PIPO_Scan.png

 

 

My 4th Optiarc burn with ImgBurn 2.5.1.0 at 4x and scanned with AD-7240S :

 

 

MadX_PIPO_Scan_Optiarc.png

 

 

 

 

Questions :

 

1. Looking at those results, what do you have to say ???

2. Looking at those results, which scan results should I trust ??? The DRU's or the Optiarc's ???

3. If you say DRU to the 2nd question, would you keep it or reburn ??? And why ???

4. If you say Optiarc to the 2nd question, would you keep it or reburn ??? And why ???

5. If you say none of them to the 2nd question, would you recommend to buy another burner or another scanner ???

 

 

Thank you very much in advance for your answers :)

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1. Nec based Optiarcs are better readers and I think that's why they show more green than the red stuff with Lite-Ons. Just look at the posted scans in this post.

2. The DRU

3. If it was a DVD Video you should see some disturb ions while you watch the movie at that spot.

4. I would burn a regular SL Verbatim disc to find out how such a scan looks

 

This disc was burned with my Optiarc 7200 and gave these results if I scan with my Lite-On or the Optiarc 7200. (My 7240 is currently removed from the computer).

 

post-20-126999140534.png

 

post-20-126999140621.png

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1. Nec based Optiarcs are better readers and I think that's why they show more green than the red stuff with Lite-Ons. Just look at the posted scans in this post.

 

I see. So with the Optiarc being a better reader, it doesn't give a precise picture or idea on how good the burn/data integrity is on that disc.

 

 

2. The DRU

 

So what's causing the last 3 burn to have that identical scan results with the DRU ??? I fear that it's my Optiarc burning process doing that.

 

 

4. I would burn a regular SL Verbatim disc to find out how such a scan looks

 

I see. I will do that in the near future and post the result. I only have 1 disc of Verbatim DVD-R 16x TYG03 right now. I will try to find another media code and burn with it. I noticed though in the Media section, the scan results on TYG02, MCC 02RG20 and MCC 03RG20 burned with NEC drives, are not as satisfactory as the other drives and somewhat resemble my results. CMIIW please.

 

 

Thank you very much for your kind answers, Cynthia !!!

Edited by Burnfreak888

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The TYG02 disc I burned is not a genuine TY disc, It's an Aone branded disc.

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