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Can someone recommend a blu-ray drive that is known to work with M-Discs & BDXL discs and with ImgBurn?


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33 replies to this topic

#21 Outlier

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 11:27 PM

I don't know what the settings were when I was burning the disc but when I checked just now, under the "Eject Tray After" options, none of the boxes were checked. But I'm 100% sure the disc was ejected from the internal slim LG and the external slim Pioneer after the burning was done and before verification (and I didn't alter any of those settings ever).  The first time it happened it surprised me because I didn't know that would happen so it ended up staying ejected and waiting for me for a long time.  The second time, I was waiting for it and reloaded the disc as soon as it happened. 



#22 dbminter

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 11:35 PM

There's an easy way to check and it won't take much time if you have easy access to a CD-RW, DVD+-RW, or a BD-RE S/D/TL.  Just create a really small image file, say a few hundred MB, enough to fit on a CD-RW.  Then, burn that image to a rewritable disc in the Pioneer slim and see if the drive ejects the disc after burn and if ImgBurn waits for you to reload the disc.  If your image is really small, it should only take a few minutes to do all of this.



#23 LIGHTNING UK!

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 11:36 PM

The option you're looking for is 'cycle tray before verify' and it's on the Write tab in the settings.
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#24 dbminter

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 11:48 PM

Why are there two different options?  One for Cycle Tray Before Verify and one for Eject Tray After Write?  Does that 2nd option only apply if you have the Cycle Tray Before Option unchecked?  Meaning the tray will be ejected after a Write and all writes, even if there is no Verify?



#25 LIGHTNING UK!

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 12:18 AM

They’re different things.

One says cycle and the other says eject.

Cycling means it ejects and then loads.

Eject means it ejects.

The eject options apply after the entire operation has completed.
Writer + verify operation is just classed as a write operation, not a verify operation.

The cycling of the tray between write and verify actually forms part of the verification process... it checks the drive can reinitialise the disc.

The eject after options are there for lazy users to save them ejecting the disc manually. ;)
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#26 Outlier

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 12:22 AM

The "Cycle Tray Before Verify" in the Write tab is indeed checkmarked for me.



#27 dbminter

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 02:10 AM

LUK: Ah, I should have realized the Cycle part.  Cycle means an eject and close, as you said.  Eject just ejects the tray after a Write operation but doesn't reload the tray.

 

 

So, you're saying you had Cycle Tray Before Verify checked and you still had to manually reload the disc before Verify?  Which makes sense since a slot drive doesn't have a tray.  And I think slot drives only load when a disc is inserted, e.g. it "detects" the drive is being inserted over some mechanical loaders and automatically activates.  Which would require the user manually reinsert the disc.  It seems that there are no automatic load commands for slot drives.  As I thought from a post I made a while back in another thread questioning Pioneer's latest slim external vertical oriented BD drive.

 

 

I don't like having to do that because if I leave a BD burn operation going that takes a long time, it will be waiting for me to insert the disc before the Verify.  Which means I have to baby sit the burn.  And if it's a BD-RE DL that is nearly being fully written, it will sit there waiting for me to insert the disc after 90 minutes of the write.  So, naturally, I'd hate to sit there for 90 minutes, and I'd have to go away and do something else.  Once the write is done, it would be waiting for me the whole time to load the disc for Verify.  But, that is, sadly, the nature of the beast as more and more drives, IF they're still being made, are going the way of slim, slot driven mechanisms.



#28 Outlier

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 08:10 AM

This burning thing is not so consistent.  I tried burning a 2nd blu-ray disc (BDXL M-Disc) and the burn process completed successfully but the verification failed again at a large video file.  I tried again with another disc but this time I created an image .ISO file of the folders that I wanted backed up.  I then burned the blu-ray disc from that .ISO file and it worked (including the verification).  Is burning from an .ISO file more reliable than burning from the actual files?  Or are they equally reliable and it's just a hit or miss thing?



#29 LIGHTNING UK!

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 08:55 AM

It makes no difference if you're burning files or an ISO.

The data gets put into ImgBurn's buffer in the form of raw sector info and that's then sent to the drive, where it's stored in the internal cache and ultimately burnt to disc via internal processes.

So the drive has complete control of the burn and just burns what it receives. It doesn't know or care about the original format... be it files or an ISO.
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#30 Outlier

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 10:28 AM

If it makes no difference burning files or an ISO, then was it just luck that one worked for me and the other didn't?  Any possible explanation?  If I'm going to be burning discs and relying on luck that it works, then maybe I should reconsider buying the expensive BDXL blu-rays discs and getting smaller sizes instead like just a regular blu-ray M-disc. 



#31 LIGHTNING UK!

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 11:21 AM

Correct, just luck.

In order to fit that much data on a disc, these devices inherently sensitive. Discrepancies in manufacturing, dust etc all play a part and I guess they're just more likely to fail to burn... for whatever reason.

As you say, it would probably be cheaper and easier to just stick to single layer discs.
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#32 dbminter

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 04:11 PM

As for there being no difference between an on the fly burn and burning from an ISO, I agree, as I always have, there's no difference to ImgBurn between the two.  But, results from another user and initially myself showed there was a difference in execution.  On LG drives, burning ISO's to DL BD media would almost always fail Verify.  But, burning on the fly would work.  And my initial tests showed it worked.  It also worked if something other than ImgBurn burned the ISO.  This was short lived though as actual real world execution proved the written contents weren't written correctly.  So, it just reinforced my results that LG's are bad BD DL burners.

 

 

Your luck could be down to it being a slim drive.  Slim drives really can't be trusted.  I wouldn't be satisfied until I tested a BD XL in my Pioneer 2209.  I still think they support M-Disc even though they no longer advertise it.  But, without being able to get my hands on a disc and testing it, I can't be sure.  However, you could always get one and an external enclosure and return them if it doesn't.

 

 

In fact, I found this:

 

https://www.amazon.com/BDR-2209-Internal-Accessories-Support...315477&sr=8-1&keywords=bd 2209

 

I was going to check the questions section for the drive on Amazon.com and ask if it supported them still if no one else had.  Turned out, I found that listing which includes an M-Disc with the drive and its production description lists M-Disc.  In fact, Amazon said I bought this drive in 2016.  However, it was also the one I returned because it didn't burn BD-R correctly out of the box.  That was probably a fluke as the next 2209 I got in January has been working fine.

 

 

As has been said, single layer discs have a better chance of writing correctly.  When you go beyond 1 layer, you drastically increase the reasons for failure.  If you experience problems burning to SL discs, then I'd say the problem is it's a slim drive.  I only ever write to BD-RE DL's as giant floppies and for my monthly system backups to temporary discs and then only in my Pioneer or ASUS, not the LG.  And the monthly backups only go to those because they're just over a BD-RE SL size, ranging between 26 and 32 GB.



#33 Outlier

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 11:25 PM

To summarize what happened to the 5 BDXL M-discs I bought (for $97.21 including tax), these were my results:

 

0/1 with the Asus BW-16D1HT

0/1 with the LG BU40N

2/3 with the Pioneer BDR-XS06

 

Considering the cost of these particular discs, I want to make sure I have the most reliable drive.  So I went ahead and bought that Pioneer BDR-2209 internal drive as well as the Vantec NST-536S3-BK NexStar DX USB 3.0 External Enclosure that you mentioned earlier, dbminter.  I'll post what I find.  It supposedly comes with Cyberlink software, is it worth giving that a try?  Or just stick with ImgBurn?  (considering that I want to limit my experimentation because of the cost of these discs)



#34 dbminter

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 12:29 AM

I can say that the 2209 and that enclosure do work fine on my Dell 8700 PC and didn't have the semaphore timeout error that can occur fairly commonly with some systems.

 

 

As for the included Cyberlink Software, I didn't find much use in it.  I think it had PowerDVD 10 and a version of PowerDirector, like version 5.  I would only have used PowerDVD, but my ASUS drive came with a newer version of PowerDVD, so I installed that over the Pioneer's included utilities.  The included software doesn't do any writing, as far as I know, but, I never used any of it beyond PowerDVD, which only plays back video discs.






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