Ed Van Every Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 I saw another posting for a similar request so here's my $0.02... Apparently, ImgBurn processes all the files and directories in its source list by recording files at the root of the compilation first, then all the files at the first level directories, then all the files at the second level directories, etc... Its a little odd, but thats the way it appears to record stuff. At least this is what my post failure analysis shows me (after 5 blown DVD-R DL's)... This is causing me big headaches when trying to use a BartPE boot image to record a Dual Layer DVD to make a Ghost imaging disk. The content of this Ghost image exceeds the capacity of a regular DVD so I must use a dual layer disc (VISTA ***IS*** BloatWare). When I put my Ghost image files into the source list, it appears the only way I can make sure they get pushed to the end of the image is to artificially nest them very deep in a directory structure. As another user has also suggested, it might be nice to simply have a check box which allows us to specify that the source files and directories be recorded in the order they appear in the source list (or IBB file). I even tried creating a directory named \ZIMAGES as I thought it was processing each folder alphabetically IN ITS ENTIRETY, but thats apparently not the way its done. Once again, ImgBurn records all the files in the root, then all the files in the first level folders, then all the files, in the second level folders, then all the files in the third level folders, etc. The big issue, is of course, that the large Ghost images push the NTLDR and boot files out into the second layer and then the system will not boot. Making an artificially deep structure should solve this but I don't think thats a very obvious solution. (I can't test this right now as I ran out of DVD Dual Layer discs and am waiting for more). Just let the image be created based on how the directories or files appear in the list. Its that simple. I spent many hours on this and all I have to show is several relatively expensive coasters. Is this possible? I'ld appreciate an email response from the author(s) if possible as I have to get back to more productive endeavors and may not be able to check back for a while. This is very important to us, but I'll have to check into other potential methods for immediate resolution... Thanks! Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontasciime Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 You keep mentioning ghost image, I associate Ghost image with Norton Ghost and I have no trouble at all making a Ghost Image onto verbatim Dual layer + media. -R DL who buys them. Ghost does this though and ImgBurn does not come into it, So I assume you are not on about Norton Ghost. Although my disc is bootable it loads Norton ghost and then the image file. So my disc is not a bootable operating system disc. The Author will know what your on about though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIGHTNING UK! Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Sorry to sound harsh but the physical position of the file on the media shouldn't make the blindest bit of difference. It's just an LBA - be it 1 or 2000000. Ghost (or something else in the whole software equation) must impose some crappy programming limit whereby it doesn't allow 32bit LBA addresses - if that really is the case. Either way, it's something that needs fixing in those programs rather than me having to implement a workaround for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Van Every Posted October 5, 2007 Author Share Posted October 5, 2007 I saw another posting for a similar request so here's my $0.02... Apparently, ImgBurn processes all the files and directories in its source list by recording files at the root of the compilation first, then all the files at the first level directories, then all the files at the second level directories, etc... Its a little odd, but thats the way it appears to record stuff. At least this is what my post failure analysis shows me (after 5 blown DVD-R DL's)... This is causing me big headaches when trying to use a BartPE boot image to record a Dual Layer DVD to make a Ghost imaging disk. The content of this Ghost image exceeds the capacity of a regular DVD so I must use a dual layer disc (VISTA ***IS*** BloatWare). When I put my Ghost image files into the source list, it appears the only way I can make sure they get pushed to the end of the image is to artificially nest them very deep in a directory structure. As another user has also suggested, it might be nice to simply have a check box which allows us to specify that the source files and directories be recorded in the order they appear in the source list (or IBB file). I even tried creating a directory named \ZIMAGES as I thought it was processing each folder alphabetically IN ITS ENTIRETY, but thats apparently not the way its done. Once again, ImgBurn records all the files in the root, then all the files in the first level folders, then all the files, in the second level folders, then all the files in the third level folders, etc. The big issue, is of course, that the large Ghost images push the NTLDR and boot files out into the second layer and then the system will not boot. Making an artificially deep structure should solve this but I don't think thats a very obvious solution. (I can't test this right now as I ran out of DVD Dual Layer discs and am waiting for more). Just let the image be created based on how the directories or files appear in the list. Its that simple. I spent many hours on this and all I have to show is several relatively expensive coasters. Is this possible? I'ld appreciate an email response from the author(s) if possible as I have to get back to more productive endeavors and may not be able to check back for a while. This is very important to us, but I'll have to check into other potential methods for immediate resolution... Thanks! Ed There are ***MANY*** reasons why we do not use GHOST to make the DVD. The GHOST CD authoring engine sucks and does not give us the environment we want. In fact, the generic GHOST environment will not run on several specific configurations due to the inability of the underlying DOS environment to support an external DVD connected by USB. But my question is not about the generic Ghost environment... ...nuff said... We have the environment we want and it meets our requirements when the overall size does not exceed a standard DVD. We would like to continue to use this same installation environment as the larger (bloated) VISTA images pushes into DL media sizes. Now, if ImgBurn would let us control placement of the files (at least by recording them in the order they are listed) all would be well... So the query stands... Thanks, Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Van Every Posted October 5, 2007 Author Share Posted October 5, 2007 Sorry to sound harsh but the physical position of the file on the media shouldn't make the blindest bit of difference. It's just an LBA - be it 1 or 2000000. Ghost (or something else in the whole software equation) must impose some crappy programming limit whereby it doesn't allow 32bit LBA addresses - if that really is the case. Either way, it's something that needs fixing in those programs rather than me having to implement a workaround for them. Yes file placement ***DOES*** matter... If you have several large files (like GHOST images) in a WinPE or BartPE disc image, and those files get recorded to the media before the kernel and boot loader files, and they end up pushing the boot loader and kernel files out onto the disk past the Layer break, the disc will not be bootable. Its fairly well established that in order for a BartPE or WinPE Dual Layer image to be bootable, the NTLoader and Kernel files must reside on the portion of the disk before the layer break. (IOW: the LBA of the NTLDR and kernel files must be before the LBA of the layer break) Allowing us to make sure the really large GHOST image files are recorded last will solve this issue. Allowing us to lock the recording order to the order in which the items are listed will accomplish this. As some really large GHOST images (with multiple files) can themselves exceed the capacity of a standard DVD (1/2 of a DL), these WILL push the kernel and NTLDR past the layer break if recorded first. Thanks, Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Van Every Posted October 5, 2007 Author Share Posted October 5, 2007 ...and its not a "crappy" Ghost problem, its a limitation of the NT Loader... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Van Every Posted October 5, 2007 Author Share Posted October 5, 2007 ...yet another post - sorry... Also, as more and more WinPE and BartPE environments start to exceed the capacity of a standard DVD, this will become more of an evident issue. Its not about Ghost, its about the size of the disc and whether or not NTLOADER and Kernel files get pushed out past the layer break on DL media. Any BartPE or WinPE environment which is greater than 4.5GB, and therefore requires DL media, may have these issues. I can appreciate the fact if you don't want to provide this feature. Just be sure you understand the nature of the request, that others have also asked for this feature, and that the requests will likely go up in the future. These are valid feature requests to improve an already great product. http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?showtopic=4518 Its your choice... Thanks for a great product in any case! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIGHTNING UK! Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 I fail to see why it wouldn't work from the second layer. The first LBA on the 2nd layer of a double layer disc is less than the last one on single layer media so what you're saying makes no sense - that's ignoring that the LB can be moved to anywhere on the disc (depending on total size of image of course). By your logic, this issue with LBA's on the 2nd layer could mess up single layer burns too. It's not like the LBA's change on the 2nd layer, the number just continues on from where it left off on the 1st layer. i.e. Layer 0 = LBA 0 - 999, Layer 2 = LBA 1000 - 1999. So far as any program should be concerned, it's just a bigger disc! - like going from CD to DVD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontasciime Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Is that the same for -R DL ? edit actually I think you just answered that in another thread If you're burning normal data files it really doesn't matter where the LB is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIGHTNING UK! Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Yup, same for -R DL. The LBA just keeps going up as you switch from L0 to L1 - without any gaps etc so it's just like one (slightly bigger) disc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Van Every Posted October 5, 2007 Author Share Posted October 5, 2007 I fail to see why it wouldn't work from the second layer. The first LBA on the 2nd layer of a double layer disc is less than the last one on single layer media so what you're saying makes no sense - that's ignoring that the LB can be moved to anywhere on the disc (depending on total size of image of course). By your logic, this issue with LBA's on the 2nd layer could mess up single layer burns too. It's not like the LBA's change on the 2nd layer, the number just continues on from where it left off on the 1st layer. i.e. Layer 0 = LBA 0 - 999, Layer 2 = LBA 1000 - 1999. So far as any program should be concerned, it's just a bigger disc! - like going from CD to DVD. Hey - I didn't write the loader (NTLDR)! If you do a Google search on BARTPE and Dual Layer you will see that other folks have documented this as well. In fact, thats what brought me to the ImgBurn product in the first place! I've found a couple of links which indicate that NTLDR can't completely load the O/S if all the files it needs are not in the first layer (and below 4GB). Take the info for what its worth... I did get finally get a Big "DL" BartPE image working using another tool (UltraISO) which simply appends any newly added files (my image files) to the end of an existing ISO image. Consider this a confirmation if you will... I could not get ImgBurn to do this properly since I had no control of file placement. Anyway, I have my solution. Thanks again for a great product! I hope you find some time and incentive to implement the feature as several of us have requested. Bye for now! Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIGHTNING UK! Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Ah ok so now you're saying it won't load if it's not below 4GB. From a technical point of view, that makes more sense than you saying it won't load if it's on the 2nd layer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIGHTNING UK! Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Ok so I've had a little play around with this now to figure out how much I'd have to change to implement *something* that could be useful. I've determined it's not possible (without load of hassle) to have total control over where the files/directories are placed (i.e. copied exactly from the order of the 'source' box), but what I can do is order them on file basis and then directory basis as taken from the 'source' box. i.e. I cannot support ordering like this: File 1 File 2 Dir 1 File 3 Dir 2 File 4 Dir 3 Dir 4 etc... I can support ordering like this: File 1 File 2 File 3 File 4 Dir 1 Dir 2 Dir 3 Dir 4 That is to say, the files in the root folder will always come first on the disc, but you can have them in the order they're specified in the 'source' box and the same goes for the folders. I can also (well, have actually) make it so it will traverse the directory structure like this: root dir 1 dir 1\dir 2 dir 1\dir 2\dir 3 dir 4 dir 4\dir 5 dir 4\dir 5\dir 6 instead of the current way: root dir 1 dir 4 dir 1\dir 2 dir 4\dir 5 dir 1\dir 2\dir 3 dir 4\dir 5\dir 6 If you look though, the latter (current) method is the same used on the real Windows CDs (made by Microsoft's CD Image program). So anyway, that would mean if you stuck your ghost image in a folder called 'z', it would come after everything - assuming there wasn't then a zz folder Please let me know if this would actually be of any use to you before I go wasting my time on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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