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ron spencer

Multi-Session Question

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Is the purpose of the multi-session option in new version to add data to an audio CD? For example, session one would be the WAV audio and session 2 the mp3 audio, which could be read on PC. I tried this, but Imgburn wanted to converted the MP3s in session 2 back to wav....if I made the MP3s into a zip file and put that into session 2, ImgBurn said invalid image file.

 

Am I missing the boat here? I tried to put some other data into session 2, for example a .jpg, but the proggy said no directshow filter available.

 

Is this CD-Extra?

 

see:

 

http://www.macdisk.com/cdextraen.php3

 

Introduction

The CD Extra is a mixed mode CD-ROM, containing first an audio session, with one or several audio tracks, then a second session (data track). The first session is the only one seen by the audio CD players, the second one is only seen by the computer. You should not confound those CDs with some earlier attempts (before 1995) to put first a data track then the audio tracks, or even to squeeze the data track in the pre-gap space, before the first track. The CD Extra specification is described in the Blue Book.

It happens that some people use terms like "Enhanced Music CD" or "CD Plus" to designate such CDs.

 

How to do?

The method is rather simple: you first burn the audio session, without closing the disk. Some recording software speak of session at once, others speak of reopening a new session, of not closing the disk. You may have to look in the manual and to do some tests.

You then burn the data session/track (data sessions contain almost always a single track), this time closing the disk. Nothing prevents you to register several data sessions/tracks but it doesn't make necessarily sense.

Most CD-ROM burning software packages recompute the offsets of the ISO catalog while burning the data track in the second session.

Some refuse to burn the track with an error messahe stating that the track is not built for the medium in the burner (in particular, Easy CD Creator).

One should note that this redocking (rebasing) operation is not strictly necessary.

 

A CD Extra with Hybrid Data Track

Depending on the data track you produced, it can be an ISO 9660 track, a HFS (Macintosh) track or a hybrid (HFS/ISO 9660) track, like an image produced by MacImage Using the autorun/autostart feature, you can even have a CD-ROM which autostarts with the same contents (or even another one) on the PC and on the Macintosh.

 

 

If it is indeed mixed mode CD I cannot do it...of course I could be OFF course

Edited by ron spencer

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imgburn tries to change everything to WAV it seems....In all sessions it expects audio and tries to convert it for music output. Only the first session can have audio as players only see the first session. The second session is suppsed to hold anything....i.e., for computer CD-ROMS.

 

 

so I think something is off?

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Create an iso in build mode with your mp3's. Then when making your cue, add the wavs, then the iso as the second session. It will then burn as intended :thumbup: .

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Indeed, you're adding files that represent tracks in the Create CUE window, not files to burn as-is.

 

Even then, you can't build an ISO and just shove it on the end for CD Extra, the LBA addresses in the file system will be all wrong.

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ok thanks guys!!!!!

 

when you add the ISO to session 2 though the dialog boxes still permit changes to cd Text and pregap....should this be so for adding in the ISO?

 

 

fun!!!!

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To be honest, it's a quick and dirty box, I didn't pay massive attention to validating everything (and I'd probably not even though about those two!).

 

I'll tweak it for the next release ;)

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I made the QUE file as described with my MP3s in teh second session as ISO. When I try to burn (that is I open up the QUE file), ImgBurn does nothing and keeps prompting me to open a file....I keep choosing the QUE that I made, but ImgBurn will not open it. Just does nothing. If I remove session 2, then it will burn fine. The QUE for session 2 is:

 

 

REM SESSION 02

FILE "AN_MP3.iso" BINARY

TRACK 14 MODE1/2048

INDEX 01 00:00:00

 

 

Session one appears up to as you would expect. If I get rid of the REM SESSION 02 part, then ImgBurn will run happily, when I run with SESSION 02 in, I can load the QUE file, but ImgBurn does not burn....just seems to ignore the file completely...no error given anywhere.

 

thanks again for help!!!!

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As mentioned above, you can't make an ISO to shove on the end. It's has to have come from a disc where it was already in the exact same LBA or the file offsets will all be off and it'll die a horrible death!

 

That said, it shouldn't not burn and then not give you an error. I'll look into it.

 

It copes with real CD Extra discs just fine - like via Read -> Write.

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ok...just trying to figure this out from above:

 

"Create an iso in build mode with your mp3's. Then when making your cue, add the wavs, then the iso as the second session. It will then burn as intended "

 

 

 

 

I am just trying to make a CD-EXTRA so I thought the above statement meant to read:

 

1. Make ISO of MP3s.

2. Open ImgBurn and in session one add the MP3s for your music CD (to be made into WAVs)

3. Make Session 2

4. Add in the ISO

5. Burn

 

 

I think this is what JasonFriday meant right?

 

I use Nero to make these things and would like to scrap it all-together (music and data can be useful).

 

I guess I am asking can ImgBurn do this all in one step...if not one step are there multiple steps or guide I can follow?

 

 

In any case, no error is given in ImgBurn.

 

 

Am I way off in looking at this Multisession thingy?

 

thanks again....Nero is almost gone now LOL!!!!

 

 

thanks for ImgBurn

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Yes sorry you're way off.

 

ImgBurn can't be used to create a CD Extra disc from scratch (why would you ever want to?!) but it'll read / write an existing one.

 

The 2nd session option in the 'Create CD CUE File' option can only be used when the data track you're adding has been created with the appropriate starting LBA.

 

Otherwise all the LBA's will be starting from 0 when really session 2 might start at LBA 100000.

 

It would also work if you'd extracted the cd-da/data tracks off a cd extra disc as individual files - rather than an image.

 

I hope that clears things up.

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thanks for response!!!!

 

I would make one so you could have say audio + mp3 on same CD, or maybe add some cool stuff for fun like cover art, etc.

 

You know, regular CD audio + data. It is actually neat.

 

 

It is clear now, however I do wonder what the multisession in ImgBurn is supposed to do then. When I googled multisession audio cd you see that standalone players will only see first session, this play the music and ignore the second session, which would be data and the user could put that into their computer player and get the extra stuff if wanted.

 

So I guess my final question on this is that since standalone players will NOT see the next sessions, what is the purpose of them in ImgBurn if not to add data?

 

Again just curiosity on my part....NOT a complaint. :thumbup:

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What I guess you have to understand is that what I added is BIN/CUE support in Read/Write mode. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Audio CD support is only in there because those modes now support CUE files. To be able to work with (read/write) CD Extra discs, I also needed multisession support.

 

The 'Create CD CUE File' is exactly what it says, it makes a text file, that's all. There's nothing clever behind it. Don't try and make it into something it's not. It's not designed with any particular disc type in mind - i.e. it's not actually for making an Audio CD, it just happens to be able to.

 

Without it, the only way to write an audio cd would be to first 'Read' it from a disc or have an existing image. I knew that wasn't going to be enough, hence the reason for it's existence - although in a very generic sense. It's an 'Advanced' feature and the 'Session' button is really only there for completeness as it's supported by the CUE file implementation.

 

The feature simply provides a means of doing something (making a basic CUE file). It's down to you (the hopefully knowledgeable end user) to ensure that the whole thing actually works.

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thanks again....this discussion has made me look a few things up.

 

 

From Padus: http://www.padus.com/support/manuals/html/...w_CDs/Index.htm

 

 

Creating an Enhanced CD (CD+):

 

 

 

Select the horizontal "CD Recording" tab on the upper-left corner of the main window.

 

Insert a blank CD into a drive capable of writing CD-R or CD-RW media and select the same drive in the Destination panel.

 

Select the horizontal "Explorer" tab on the upper-left corner of the main window.

 

In the Explorer section, select any combination of mp3, WMA, and WAV audio files you want to record, and then drag-and-drop them over the "Open session" item in the in the CD Layout window. Repeat until the first session contains all of the songs you want to record.

 

Still in the Explorer section, select the files and folders you want to record in the data portion of the CD, and then drag-and-drop them over the "CD-DA, 1 session(s), ..." item in the in the CD Layout window. A second "data" session will be automatically appended to the CD Layout. Repeat until the second session contains all of the files and folders that you want to record.

 

Click the "Start" button.

 

 

 

AND

 

 

Creating a Multi-session CD:

 

 

 

Select the horizontal "CD Recording" tab on the upper-left corner of the main window.

 

Insert a blank CD into a drive capable of writing CD-R or CD-RW media and select the same drive in the Destination panel.

 

Select the "Advanced" sub-tab and make sure "Close disc" is not checked.

Select the horizontal "Explorer" tab on the upper-left corner of the main window.

 

In the Explorer section, select any combination of data files you want to record, and then drag-and-drop them over the "Open session" item in the in the CD Layout window. Repeat until the first session contains all of the files you want to record.

 

Still in the Explorer section, select the files and folders you want to record in the data portion of the CD, and then drag-and-drop them over the "CD-DA session" item in the in the CD Layout window. A second "data" track will be automatically created at the beginning of CD Layout. Repeat until the first data track contains all of the files and folders that you want to record.

 

Click the "Start" button.

 

Close the task when it has been completed and re-insert the disc that was just written. Start a new "Create new CDs" task.

Select the horizontal "CD Recording" tab on the upper-left corner of the main window.

 

Select the same drive in the Destination panel.

Select the horizontal "Explorer" tab on the upper-left corner of the main window.

Choose to import or not import the files recorded from the first session to the new session you are about to create.

In the Explorer section, select any combination of data files you want to record, and then drag-and-drop them over the "Open session" item in the in the CD Layout window. Repeat until the second session contains all of the files you want to record.

Repeat as necessary, selecting "Close disc" in the "Advanced" sub-tab for the last desired session.

 

 

These are 2 different things, so I guess I mistook ImgBurn's multisession for the ability to make CD-Extra CDs, which it does not. When I saw mulitsession in the changelog I just assumed that the use had the ability to add data folders at will, similar to the way Padus does it, but I was wrong.

 

ImgBurn does let you add ISOs to a session though, but as I said it will not burn and gives NO ERROR message at all anywhere.

 

thanks for clearing this up!!!!

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Just don't forget that adding ISO's to a session means nothing at all if the ISO's aren't built to be burnt at the position/LBA that ImgBurn will burn them at.

 

ImgBurn will quite happily read a real CD Extra disc to a bin/cue and burn it back. You just can't 'build' one from scratch.

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Hmmmmmmmmmm.....that is interesting.

 

Is there a way to have ImgBurn to this? That is, create a cuesheet with your audio, add a second session, and NOT load an ISO, just find out the LBA the ISO should be at.

 

then exit, build your "data" session and tell it the LBA you want and then remake your QUE with the ISO?

 

 

Can this be done? Maybe convoluted 4 sure, but interesting

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I've been thinking about it since you started this topic, but no, it's not possible to enter a manual start LBA for Build mode to work from... if it was, it might be 'do-able' !

 

As for working out the size, I guess you'd make the CUE containing the audio tracks and then look at the 'Sectors' value once it's loaded into Write mode.

 

The first session leadout/second session leadin take up 11400 sectors. After that it's 6900 per leadout/leadin.

 

So to get the start LBA of the next session it would be the size (in sectors) for the CUE with just Audio tracks, then add 11400 to it.

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ok thanks!!! I have learned a fair bit from this....thanks for taking the time to keep responding; I know it is a bit of a "wierd" topic

 

 

Enjoy the day (or evening) :thumbup:

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