rjamesd
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Posts posted by rjamesd
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OS: Windows 7 64-bit
browsers: IE (updated) & Firefox (updated)
2.5.8 source: softpedia
I understand the economics of freeware in 2013. It's one thing to bundle other software with this software, but it is quite another to not give users the option to not install this bundled software. And then to make it worse, the update didn't even make the user aware that it was including other software. I couldn't opt out of it, and I wasn't at all aware it was happening. After uininstalling the TuneUp suite from the control panel, it was a headache afterwards. I had to reboot twice and was still having a problem uninstalling it. I'm still not certain I have it removed. Then, the Bing-related toolbar (enrapture, encapture, or whatever it is called) and search engine wasn't easily removed, either. After removing the tool bar, it was still integrated into my search engines. I had to go into each browser in two places to remove it from operating and acting as the default. On top of that, It had also replaced my home pages with the search engine page. One small thing after another adding up to a real hassle.
I don't consider it whiny or complaining to at least request a warning that this extra software is included before installing, and it would be only common courtesy to give users the option to click out of installing it before installing the ImgBurn update. I've never had this happen with any other update from any software, freeware or paid. For instance, at least Adobe informs, and gives an option, if you want the Google toolbar installed as it is bundled with the reader. McAfee antivirus is bundled all over the place, but it always gives the user the option to not also install it. That's decency.
If ImgBurn is financially forced to partner with other software, at least make sure it isn't so intrusive and hassle-ridden. You are the company you keep. It doesn't speak well of ImgBurn to put users in this type of situation. I've been using ImgBurn for years, and I've had no complaints whatsoever about it. This was an ugly turn of events.
Agree. See my other comments on this thread.
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Apparently, the new version of ImgBurn tries to install crapware during the upgrade. Some kind of toolbar, and some antivirus junk.
I used to recommend this software to everyone. It's a well thought-out burner, complex and powerful, yet with a no-nonsense interface. Great.
But installing crapware on users' computers during installation is a really, really lowly tactic. I used to think "I have a disc burner software, there's no need for me to look for an alternative". Well, you just made me think I probably should look for an alternative.
Have to agree sadly. I'd happily pay for ImgBurn for an-adware/malware/crapware free installer and to reward the author. And I can put my money where my mouth is as I've actually donated to ImgBurn, but still the stupid approach to the installer is continuing.
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Long time, no logon
. Thanks to technology the last time I burned a disc was a few years ago, I have moved to harddisk storage and virtual drives. ImgBurn is still my number one burning and iso making program.Also, it's obvious LUK is getting a little money to include this extra software, which is keeping ImgBurn free. Novice computer users don't know this and complain about it. I would rather keep a good program free by adding extra software for a fee.
And, thanks for the new version!
What's wrong with paying for software, it could be offered for a reasonable price. People need to be educated about this.
At somepoint JasonFriday there is a high chance that you are among many people here who would have had to part with some cash to be able to even type on this forum: your broadband connection, your PC, your Windows software, other software. And of course, as a user of ImgBurn, you are burning CDs, DVDs and/or Blu-rays aren't you? Hmmmm ooh let's think... hmmm now that blank media isn't free is it? Oh yeah, you buy it a shop don't you? Oh means means spending money doesn't it? So if you can spend money on the blank media, then why is it a problem to pay the author of ImgBurn for his hard work? Rather than encourage the awful business model of bundling crapware into the installer.
Baffles me.
Why is it this way, why can't people get it into their heads...
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OS: Windows 7 64-bit
browsers: IE (updated) & Firefox (updated)
2.5.8 source: softpedia
I understand the economics of freeware in 2013. It's one thing to bundle other software with this software, but it is quite another to not give users the option to not install this bundled software. And then to make it worse, the update didn't even make the user aware that it was including other software. I couldn't opt out of it, and I wasn't at all aware it was happening. After uininstalling the TuneUp suite from the control panel, it was a headache afterwards. I had to reboot twice and was still having a problem uninstalling it. I'm still not certain I have it removed. Then, the Bing-related toolbar (enrapture, encapture, or whatever it is called) and search engine wasn't easily removed, either. After removing the tool bar, it was still integrated into my search engines. I had to go into each browser in two places to remove it from operating and acting as the default. On top of that, It had also replaced my home pages with the search engine page. One small thing after another adding up to a real hassle.
I don't consider it whiny or complaining to at least request a warning that this extra software is included before installing, and it would be only common courtesy to give users the option to click out of installing it before installing the ImgBurn update. I've never had this happen with any other update from any software, freeware or paid. For instance, at least Adobe informs, and gives an option, if you want the Google toolbar installed as it is bundled with the reader. McAfee antivirus is bundled all over the place, but it always gives the user the option to not also install it. That's decency.
If ImgBurn is financially forced to partner with other software, at least make sure it isn't so intrusive and hassle-ridden. You are the company you keep. It doesn't speak well of ImgBurn to put users in this type of situation. I've been using ImgBurn for years, and I've had no complaints whatsoever about it. This was an ugly turn of events.
The simple thing would be to NOT have the Malware or bundles enabled by default, i.e. the checkboxes/tickboxes NOT TICKED, by default. But that is not the case and is deceitful. Or indeed don't have them at all and instead offer an honest business model whereby people pay for the software.
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Fartfinger mode: ON
FYI;
It just kills me that a program such as this one, the best at what it does and totally free for the millions of people that use it, has users that feel they have the right to bitch about such trivial things like it's their own damned property.
Fartfinger mode: OFF
I would love to just pay for ImgBurn to be able to download the latest version without the Malware. LIGHTNING UK is right that he has no control over OpenCandy - and THAT is a concern, as he is rely on them to offer software that is not damaging to users' machines - a nuisance perhaps but nothing more. That to me is a risk. BUT LIGHTNING UK DOES have control over choosing to use OpenCandy in the installer, as the release notes state.
Oh and by the way, before you get on your high horse about being free and saying that we should put up with these things and assuming that most people want something for nothing: NOT TRUE. WHY? Because I have DONATED twice in the past. So anyone who patronises their userbase by assuming all of them want something for nothing can shut up, because here's one that isn't like that and I betcha there's more like me.
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Such a shame.
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On the other hand, this software developer would probably host this another way than through "opencandy" (sp?) if users of this software would simply agree to donate.
So, ImgBurn, if you are listening, why don't you offer a donate version and then send it w/o garbageware to the PayPal user's email?
Better still, offer a paid version. Plenty of other small vendors do this and have been around for years. It's that simple. AND HONEST.
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LIGHTNING UK!: It *is* your fault.
All complains should go to OpenCandy. http://www.opencandy.com/ You can't blame him about OpenCandy offers.
YES. YOU. CAN. BLAME. HIM.
He just needs to remove it and offer the software as paid for. That's the honest way to make the money.
So many other software makers so this. Many small ones.
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So, goodbye Imgburn after years of use. Thanks for the help over the years, but now you cannot be trusted.
Same, sorry to say. It's a brilliant piece of software, the author's business decision to use deceitful malware exploiting human error is quite the opposite from their technical brilliance in making the software.
I just cannot, cannot, see how they can't get into their head that people would pay for this software, as I would - and - have proven with donation.
So terribly frustrating and infuriating.
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The offer screens are nothing to do with me
Oh but they are. In your release notes you made a conscious decision to use OpenCandy. You could make a decision NOT to use it and instead offer the brilliant ImgBurn as a paid-for product. You know I would pay for it and I think others would sincerly like to reward you for your hard work with the piece of mind of using safe software.
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you've nothing to worry about.
I really want to believe you but given that although you have decided to put OpenCandy in your installer, you have no control over what they offer. They are human beings like anyone else, they can make mistakes.
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I'd like to pay for a new version please LIGHTNING UK! For a version that has NO MALWARE in it. So that you earn money that you deserve from ImgBurn BUT HONESTLY. i.e. Not through this shitty OpenCandy crap.
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If you don't want what you're offered on those pages, simply opt out of installing them.
How about NOT having OpenCandy at all, because NO ONE WANTS THAT CRAP.
You're letting yourself and ImgBurn down so much. Shame on you.
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LIGHTNING UK!
- It's simple. Just don't use OpenCandy in YOUR installer. YOU make the decision to use it - as stated in the release notes for ImgBurn. So, it's simple: DON'T.
INSTEAD: Make an effort to make your software available by purchase - that's the HONEST approach. YOU KNOW *I* would buy it - as I have already donated twice.
Everyone else: keep complaining. Keep going... Support other posters, upvote, comment, get behind them.
I've seen other software use similar malware installer tactics, I've complained, as have others and that software maker STOPPED.
If enough people complain...
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Yes, it's that simple but people never read, only click, click, click, click... than.... ooooohh my Gooood!
Welcome to ImgBurn Forum.
So why bother having the malware then? No one wants it, so why patronise users.
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I'm pretty switched on now to avoid leaving boxes ticked during the install so as to avoid the Desktop Extensions etc being installed from OpenCandy, when I install imgburn.
But I still feel uneasy about running an install executable that has stuff that I don't want. Can you be sure that OpenCandy, who provide the unwanted programs would be safe always? I'd hate to think a cryptolocker or a mailbot got in there... how do you know if they are careful about what they provide?
Can you just take my money and give me a simple, clean, trouble free installer. What you get out of it is really honest money for your hard effort. Please embed my email into the program, if you feel I would just give copies of it away (which I would never do actually) and/or use a license manager suck as iLok for those less honest.
Please.
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Can you yourselves 100% guarantee that the 'candy' / 'offers' / toolbars that or whatever you want to call it, that are in the imgburn installer, are safe and will NOT harm the user's computer AND that they can completely remove it after install?
Has anyone posted anything that looks like the 'opencandy' damaged or otherwise messed their machine up? NOPE!
But OpenCandy is relatively unknown so my point about people being naturally suspicious still holds. If you had data on 1000000+ downloads of a toolbar (e.g. Ask) with no issues reported compared with 10000 downloads of OpenCandy which one would you prefer to have installed accidentally? The former, Ask, of course.
To answer my own question made to you: you cannot guarantee that these 'offers' / toobars / opencandy will not cause inconvenience at the least and at worst harm a person's machine. You only have control over your software, imgburn itself. Sure, same applies to better known toolbars such as Ask in that you can't control what they do but they have an established reputation much like imgburn itself does.
I would like to believe that these 'offers' / toobars / opencandy are harmless and can be uninstalled completely with confidence and malwarebytes forum discussions indicate that this is the case.
It is only recently that these 'offers' / toobars / opencandy have started to appear in imgburn so people are so familiar with clicking through the install when upgrading or reinstalling or to a new machine that now they are caught out by these things being installed. I think that is one of the main reasons why these discussions have started - people are shocked because of this apparently sudden introduction. And the deceitfulness as to how it was introduced - default setting 'on' and even your own LIGHTNING UK is a "little put off" by the 'Recommended by imgburn bit' http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?showtopic=21629&p=148365
If they had always been present in the install we would have been familiar with this to avoid it. Sure you can say it was our action that installed it, but we are human beings (can I check - are you?!) and we make mistakes, overlook things and these'offers' / toobars / opencandy exploit that weakness by having things on default and even 'Recommended by imgburn'. This goes against the qualities of imgburn being an honest useful quality piece of software.
And what is the point of the 'offers' / toobars / opencandy if people either avoid them in the install or get annoyed and uninstall them directly after installing imgburn. It's futile! You say that imgburn makes money from this so the money must come from these 'offers' / toobars / opencandy paying you to include it in your tool. So as I've said, aren't they going to wake up one day and realise that no one is using their stuff and stop paying you? It really really really is a weak business model and absolutely astounds me that you seem incapable of setting a system for a paid version of imgburn
Furthermore if you sadly continue with including the 'offers' / toobars / opencandy, can you a put a note next to each download links on YOUR site that the install contains these?
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damage the computers of people who don't know any better.
And it does that how? What nonsense. When you write a great piece of software you can do what you like with it, until then as far as I know, no one here personally invited anyone to use it..
Can you yourselves 100% guarantee that the 'candy' / 'offers' / toolbars that or whatever you want to call it, that are in the imgburn installer, are safe and will NOT harm the user's computer AND that they can completely remove it after install?
Myself I have donated 30$ to imgburn directly (so far, may consider donating more) so that action can shut up anyone trying to justify these offers. I've said this point so many times already: why taint a great piece of software with such offers included in the install and why don't you make imgburn paid for like many reputable vendors do. People don't want the offers, don't use them, one day, if they have any sense, the makers of such toolbars / candy are going to wake up to this fact and stop giving you money for bundling their stuff in your software. Then where will you be? Great piece of software tainted by the crapware, no more money money coming from them, when you could have set up a proper online store. Your abilities in creating imgburn clearly show you are also capable of setting up a paid-for offering, seem like bundling crapware is the lazy option...
Points expanded on here:
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happy to pay for this product rather than have to avoid installing stuff I don't want. Never heard of the 'candy' offered (i.e. delta-search) so naturally suspicious. Such candy is of limited use and not what the user wants - google, bing are good enough for most people what would delta-search offer them that these don't and would people consciously visit delta search to get just product, the answer would be no I think.
Points expanded on here:
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The offers are optional so you can avoid them. It cost you a click but for the author it brings some cash for his time invested in this marvelous piece of software.
I have actually DONATED 30 dollars to the author for their hard work via their donate button, about a week ago when I started contributing to users' concerns about these extra 'offers', see here: http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?showtopic=21629&p=148361
My concerns are these:
1. not so much with the additional 'offers', toolbars, etc. But more WHO they are from. I have never heard of them, e.g. delta-search so it's natural and reasonable to be suspicious compared with brands that one knows. You just cannot argue with that, in all aspects of life you use things and services with established and trusted reputation. Now, if you confined your 'offers' to Ask, Yahoo, AVG, CNET, Google, etc then I wouldn't be here voicing my concerns. As imburn providers we trust YOUR software - i.e. the imgburn program (nothing else) and you yourselves can give us that guarantee. However - can you 100% guarantee that these 'offers' such as the delta-search are not harmful to the user's PC, can you?! Now I would like to think they aren't harmful and the responses to my reports of malwarebytes forum suggest that they are just adware, but still, relatively unknown companies so trust isn't there...
2. the deceitful default enabled setting of the options. Answer this: why aren't they turned off by default?! and the fact that the installer shows that they are recommended by imgburn - which the author admits themselves their concerns about that - see here: http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?showtopic=21629&p=148367
3. 'brings in cash' a 'few extra bucks' for these 'offers'. The reality is that people will either opt-out of these offers during the install or uninstall them afterwards - so whoever provides these 'offers' will find that their tool are not being used so they are getting a poor investment on their return from paying money to the imgburn author to agree to include their tools. Seems pointless to me. And I've stated before in these discussions, I think this is a rather lame business model. I really don't understand why you couldn't offer a paid-for version as I'm sure I'm not the only person who would be willing to (and had proved it ) to pay for your brilliant product. This what other companies do such as nch,com.au do and other companies use platforms such as regnow, digital river, cleverbytes as means to deliver their paid-for products. In the going the route you have, you have tainted your reputation. Comment?
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I'd rather the Ask toolbar than any unheard of crapware.
"ImgBurn as an actual program hasn't changed, so your feelings about it shouldn't change either."
Well they have. I'm sorry they have. I can't understand why you can't see that. If there were none of these 'offers' included in the installer then yes, feelings would not change.
The fact that the installer says 1) "recommended by image burn" 2) and the options are enabled by default and worded like they are part of the product, as in "express install" - as if to help the user - and you saw this because I showed you a screenshot of the installer. Those things associate imgburn with these 'offers' and lead people to believe they are bundled together and also be concerned as to what is actually being installed on their PC. Yes you cn pick me up on being click-happy and I admitted that but the installer is setup like that for people to get tripped up. They wouldn't have the boxes unticked by default now would they? Just like an application form has a box at the bottom saying "tick this box if you don't want to receive offers from us and other 3rd parties". These things are set in a default state that does not benefit the customer.
"not nice" - thanks for taking the time to voice your concerns.
I'll say it again. If it was just plain imgburn with none of these offers we wouldn't be having any of these discussions.
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...potentially being offered by the installer downloaded from the **official imgburn site**, imgburn.com...
Why did you bother with the 'offers' in the installer? I'd be inclined to think that most people DON'T WANT IT and would either: opt-out and untick the offer OR once installed, uninstall straight-away.
You haven'r really explained why you use them. You keep saying that ImgBurn hasn't changed. However, the "apparatus" around it i.e. the installer is a conscious choice of yours. In that YOU have chosen to package imgburn into these installers for distribution.
I am really astounded by the contrast between the brilliance of imgburn in its functionality against the utter utter lameness of your business model but consciously choosing to bundle crapware. I'm sure there are people like me who are willing to pay for a full version of your software after using a lite version.
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The trick is you schedule full images to run while you're asleep. So, when you get up, they're all done.Thanks for the "campfire" story dbminter and glad someone's got time for imaging and differential backups every day. But I'm with that sensible lady on that: "Aint nobody got time for that"
And a Differential in Reflect on my system takes only 12 minutes to run on average. A small time slice price to pay for a botched installation. It would run faster if I had USB 3.0 on my PC as my external HD supports it and I backup to the external HD.Of course, backing up your system depends on various factors. Like what you store on the partition you're imaging. For instance, I moved TEMPDIR to its own partition so ImgBurn's image files won't be stored on C: with Windows and add GB's to the daily image that I don't care if they get backed up or not. Then, there's things like if you're storing your MP3's or video files on the same partition. My system has more partitions that it knows what to do with!
Basically, only Windows and installed programs that can't run as standalone apps exist on my C: partition.Thanks. I'll bear that in mind. Sounds quick to run *once* setup but the initial study and setup is longer but a one-off.
bromium.com security software looks interesting - would like them to do a version available to consumers...
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notahappybunny - you'll also find that the delta toolbar crap is also being peddled in the installer downloaded from the **official imgburn site**, imgburn.com - this site - as I found. See here: http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?showtopic=21629
LIGHTNING UK! hope the pennies you get from the adware are worth the noise being created in these forums...
So, help me understand this.
in ImgBurn General
Posted
100% with you drumphil, see my other posts.
To summarise. I would rather pay for ImgBurn to get a crapware-free installer and reward the author at the same time.
It is cynical, patronising and deceitful to provide the installer in this way. The assumption is that no-one will pay for good sofware. Not true. I donated twice, so there's proof.
Thanks for voicing your concerns. Be persistent encourage others with the same concerns.
Such a shame that brilliant software has to have this crap with it.