Pain_Man Posted April 7, 2006 Posted April 7, 2006 Hello all, it's been a good, long while since most of you have heard from me. I've intended to post here but got lazy and didn't get around to it until now. Now I've got a bizarre issue that's come up. (One that's cost me four +R DLs!) My Plextor 716SA died last month. Only fifteen months old, it up and decided it was tired of burning media. Any kind of media. It wanted to be a ROM drive. Skipping the extraneous, I decided to buy the new 760A, 18x -/+R burning, 10x DL burning, et al. Well, I got it and installed it. Without mentioning any names, I burned several DVD-Videos on Verbatim +R DLs--Plextor's recommended brand. All four of the discs I've burned so far (well five, but it was defective and wouldn't play at all) have "burps" or video/audio stutters. Just brief little instances where the sound fades out and the video briefly freezes. Then it goes back to normal. To make it weirder, the more times you scan backwards to the point before the "burp" occurs the shorter the stutters or disruptions become until, finally, they are much, much shorter. Now he's where it gets REALLY weird. I called Plextor TS (I only got the drive last Wed!) to explain the problem to them, hoping they'd ship me a new drive and I could return the old one. Nope. According to the twerp on the phone, the problem is NOT the drive it's Hyperthreading!. And only when burning video or audio. Yes, chips with hyperthreading, or, that is EVERY chip Intel makes, is the issue. And, according to the twerp, it's not just Plextor drives, most every manufacturer's drives have this problem with DLs. And it appears to be ONLY with DLs. I used a 6x -RW to burn the same video and, having noted the times at which the "burps" had occured, waited to see what would happen. NO BURPS on the -RW. Smooth as whipped cream. (Reminds me of a line from an old Cure song, show your age and tell me which song and album! "And smear this man across the walls/Like strawberries and cream/It's the only way...to be...." If I decided to buy another brand, the twerp recommended I contact that manufacturer and ask them if they have a known issue with hyperthreading and "burps." And finally, the "fix" recommended by the twerp is to go into the BIOS and disable Hyperthreading, burn the video, and then re-enable Hyperthreading. That's not time consuming or a pain in the tuchus. So I'm not sure what to do. I'm going to contact their sales department (I bought it directly from Plextor) and see if there's any kind of money-back guarantee. (However, I have a feeling since the twerp claims it's "not a Plextor problem" there's probably going to be a restock fee.) I could get another 716A, I suppose. It was a great burner until it decided it only wanted to be a ROM. I did TS for Dell and TS for a (now defunct) dot bomb scam* So the question for the IB Panel: 1.) Have you ever heard of this particular issue? Well, I just got the Borg DVD-Set from UPS so I'm going to go immerse myself in Star Trek and not stress about the drive. Oh yeah, and wait for your posts... *(yes one of those companies run by people who knew ZIP about computers or IT, let alone the Net, yet managed to attract $200M in capital on the stock market, mostly by lies and bullshit; I was in the middle of a $200M scam and lemme tell ya, it was something to see. People were practically fighting each other to give these clowns money. But that's a different story. The good news? Nearly the entire management teams faces Federal criminal charges and a dozen lawsuits. Sadly, I was unable to benefit financially. )
Grain Posted April 8, 2006 Posted April 8, 2006 Long time no hear Pain Man, glad to see you back. Not sure if I believe the hyperthreading line either, as AMD chips hyperthread also, and well, it just sounds like shite to me. Hopefully someone will be able to help you, the 760 looks like a good burner on paper...
Pain_Man Posted April 8, 2006 Author Posted April 8, 2006 Push from The Head on The Door Bingo. Came out in 1985. Methinkso thou art north of 30 to remember that one. Great album. Lots of blurred memories of, ah, extended braincell desctruction sessions.
Pain_Man Posted April 8, 2006 Author Posted April 8, 2006 Long time no hear Pain Man, glad to see you back. Not sure if I believe the hyperthreading line either, as AMD chips hyperthread also, and well, it just sounds like shite to me. Hopefully someone will be able to help you, the 760 looks like a good burner on paper... "That's his replacement, a fucking actor?" --Chris, Team America Thanks, GrainMan. It finally thawing out in GWN? I find the HT thing a little odd, but these are PCs. Anything's possible, I suppose. I have a new Pioneer 110D that burns the DLs w/o "burps" or any other issues.
LIGHTNING UK! Posted April 8, 2006 Posted April 8, 2006 I too am not at all convinced about this hyperthreading line that they're spinning you. Sounds like utter nonsense to me! I don't have a PX-760 yet but if you want to compare PIPO scans when I do, I'd be more than happy to help. Just so we can see what's happening right now, could you post a few up of the various media types? Also, a copy of the Write Speed Graphs would come in handy. I wonder if the problem areas on the disc fall inline with where WOPC kicks in etc.
Pain_Man Posted April 8, 2006 Author Posted April 8, 2006 (edited) I too am not at all convinced about this hyperthreading line that they're spinning you. Sounds like utter nonsense to me! I don't have a PX-760 yet but if you want to compare PIPO scans when I do, I'd be more than happy to help. Just so we can see what's happening right now, could you post a few up of the various media types? Also, a copy of the Write Speed Graphs would come in handy. I wonder if the problem areas on the disc fall inline with where WOPC kicks in etc. Thanks for replying personally. I'm sure lotsa people bombard you with silly bullshit. This issue is so weird I figured I'd bring it to you attention. It doesn't quite pass the smell test, does it? I don't know much about this hardware, but it seems odd that only DLs would be affected. Why not all DVD media? Also, if its such a BIG issue, why's there no warning on their website? On anybody's website? Or the box? Why have I never heard about this before? And I have a Pioneer 110D I bought a few weeks back that'll burn DLs at 8x. So it doesn't seem to be a controller, cable or MoBo issue (I'm guessing here). The only DL media I've ever used in the 760A are Verbatim +R DLs. I do have one Write Speed Graph (I'm assuming you mean the .IBG file generated by ImgBurn/DVDInfoPro?) Unfortunately, on the two others I used IB to burn, I forgot to generate the damned files. As I said, I had a 716A that burned DLs without issue. The other issue with the 760A is that it's supposed to burn DLs at 10x. It won't even list the 8x speed the 716A did! When I called TS about that, I got the usual blahblah about "the next firmware" update. The next one? that's not what the box says. At least the -/+Rs show 18x as the max speed. And it burns the 6x RWs at 6.0. The problem seems to be only the DLs. I'm not sure I know how to upload a file. Lemme look around... I don't have my own website and I don't see a way to upload the file. I'll see if I can get it to you directly. One really weird thing is that on every disk the first "burp" occurs after the 50 minute mark. On Star Trek: The Time Travel Fan Collective, the first one occured a few minutes into the second episode (which would, I'm taking a guess, be about the same place as the 50 min mark in a feature length video). Thus, it seems to me the "burps" are occuring on the first layer. I'm not sure what to do. I waited weeks to get my hands on this drive and now its got a super-weird issue. The TS twerp was repeating his mantra so many times it just increased the smell. "This is not a Plextor issue..."* I don't yet know if Plextor will take it back? I have to call their sales dept Monday to find out what the policy is. If they stick to their policy that its an Intel issue, then they'll probably want to charge me a restock fee + shipping which would come to probably 25% of the cost--making it not really worth doing. We'll see how flexible they are. If its just a problem with this drive then a replacement would be without the problem. If its endemic to the design.... My hope is that its screwed up firmware. I probably should have waited a couple of releases instead of installing 1.1 right off the bat. *It reminded me of when I was doing TS for Dell. If the customer had a home network, that was the problem, period. The customer had to hang up, disconnect the home network, uninstall all the networking software from the Dell and then call back. Who's gonna do that? Of course, we were told to advise them to reinstall Windows if they didn't want to go to the trouble... Edited April 8, 2006 by Pain_Man
Kenadjian Posted April 8, 2006 Posted April 8, 2006 Pain_Man, Simplest way to prove they are full of shit is to turn off your HT for a couple of burns and see what happens. I personaly think it's a load of bullshit.
polopony Posted April 8, 2006 Posted April 8, 2006 Push from The Head on The Door Bingo. Came out in 1985. Methinkso thou art north of 30 to remember that one. Great album. Lots of blurred memories of, ah, extended braincell desctruction sessions. north of 30 is right I was living in NYC, only in West Palm a little over a year before I came down I saw ,Clapton ,Blue Oyster Cult ,Marshall Tucker ,Robin Trower,Buddy Guy, John Mayall ,Johnny Winter ,Edgar , BB King just to name a few saw most at BB Kings club on 42nd St. Manhattan, a small club about 400 seats, great view from everywhere anyone ever visiting New York should catch a shoe www.bbkingblues.com
Pain_Man Posted April 9, 2006 Author Posted April 9, 2006 Pain_Man,Simplest way to prove they are full of shit is to turn off your HT for a couple of burns and see what happens. I personaly think it's a load of bullshit. That's the next test. I even ordered a new tenner of DLs (plus my first pack of -R DLs) since I've used so many DLs (five of the damn things, well one was just bad and coastered) messing with this issue. Now that I've got more on the way, I'm going to go ahead and hit the BIOS, disable HT and burn one with Plextor. I'll be one surprised SOB if the TS Twerp was right. (I shouldn't say that; hardly fair to my Mom.) If would be one thing if I'd put up my post and ten or fifteen of you guys had said, "Oh yeah, the goddamned HT problem! Bummer you ran into that one, dude!" But nobody did. I have yet to see ANY post from anybody with a similar experience. *** I did have a problem with SpeedStep on my laptop. The "Reinstall Disc" that you have to make for OEM PCs (effing Redmond!) would NOT reload the OS. I was convinced it had to be a hardware issue--and it was! But like a dumbass, I took it to BestBuy, where I'd bought it, and those Cro-magnons had my laptop for 12 days, telling me the whole time there was NO hardware issue that it was all software and I'd have to pay $90 to get my shit back! So not only did they not know JACK about PCs THEY didn't bother to call Gateway to consult. If they had, they'd have discovered what I did....because... ...when they gave it back it STILL wouldn't work. They forgot to charge me and I didn't offer to pay. I wasn't going to anyway. Not after 12 damned days. They handed me the laptop right off the bat, so even if they had planned on asking for money, they wouldn't have gotten any. And if I had paid, after I learned what I subsequently did from Gateway, I would have gone to dispute resolution with the credit card company. In the US if you stop pmt on a check, the merchant automatically receives three times the face value of the check unless you can prove intentional fraud (I know, what's "unintentional" fraud? But this is Legalese, the appearance of which is the first sign freedom is beginning to die). So you can't stop payments in 99.999% of situations. So that's another advantage of paying with plastic. If there IS a problem you've got a lot better chance of getting your cash back. Anyway, to end my verbosity, the resolution turned out to be simple: I should have listened to my wife. If I'd called Gateway first instead of giving it to the apes at BestBuy I'd have been told I had to disable SpeedStep, run the install and then re-enable. Worked like a charm. Just should have listened to my wife. Would have saved me 12 days of aggravation and dealing with a smart-ass idiot who had no business repairing can openers, let alone PCs. If I had listened to my lovely lady, I'd have been up and running in less than an hour.
Pain_Man Posted April 9, 2006 Author Posted April 9, 2006 (edited) Push from The Head on The Door Bingo. Came out in 1985. Methinkso thou art north of 30 to remember that one. Great album. Lots of blurred memories of, ah, extended braincell desctruction sessions. north of 30 is right I was living in NYC, only in West Palm a little over a year before I came down I saw ,Clapton ,Blue Oyster Cult ,Marshall Tucker ,Robin Trower,Buddy Guy, John Mayall ,Johnny Winter ,Edgar , BB King just to name a few saw most at BB Kings club on 42nd St. Manhattan, a small club about 400 seats, great view from everywhere anyone ever visiting New York should catch a shoe www.bbkingblues.com Can't hang with the NY vibe, but there are definitely cool things about the place. I'm a Southern California boy, San Diego to be exact (and it's an important distinction, tho' it means nothing now, in the 70s and 80s the difference between LA and San Diego was bigger than the diff between NYC and Chicago). Growing up in San Diego in the 70s and early 80s was like a different dimension. At my high school, in three years, there were three fights. Three. If you got out of line, the School Cop would dragged you out in cuffs in front of everyone. One of the administrators was 6'6 and 250 of muscle. Not a man to be trifled with. So all the stories I hear about evil, marauding jocks and vicious sosh bitches--not my school. Not at all. On, and just to drop names, Charisma Carpenter was in my class ('88). And Jake E. Lee graduated two yrs before me. As for shows, in seven years of marriage I've been to more shows than the 28 before. Last year, I saw the Eagles, Stevie Nicks, Dennis Miller, Harry Connick Jr*, and U2. I've also seen, here in Vegas, Andrea Bocelli, Wayne Brady and the Blueman Group (comp'd 'cause I tempted at the Luxor). And I know I'm forgetting some other shows. I missed Rush though. The show was scheduled right in the middle of that crap with Alex in Florida and I was afraid it would get cancelled due to a trial (and it was police brutality exactly as I said it was; he's sued the cops and Sheriff's dept for violation of his Civil Rights [i.e. human rights]. Let's hope he wins an 8-figure verdict. With the chutzpuh that only the Fuzz have, they've sued him! Four cops taze you, beat you with their T-47s like you were steak, toss you down a flight of stairs, break your nose and falsely imprison you, not to mention, beat the crap out of your son before your eyes, handcuff your daughter in law and tear your screaming grandkid out her arms. And they've got the cojones to sue him!) Hopefully, they'll be back. *His father, DA of New Orleans for 30 years actually got on stage and performed. And damned if they man couldn't have had his own singing career. He was amazing. Edited April 9, 2006 by Pain_Man
spinningwheel Posted April 9, 2006 Posted April 9, 2006 Four cops taze you, beat you with their T-47s like you were steak, toss you down a flight of stairs, break your nose and falsely imprison you, not to mention, beat the crap out of your son before your eyes, handcuff your daughter in law and tear your screaming grandkid out her arms. Damn PM..... makes me wanna go back to work.......
lfcrule1972 Posted April 10, 2006 Posted April 10, 2006 I even ordered a new tenner of DLs (plus my first pack of -R DLs) since I've used so many DLs (five of the damn things, well one was just bad and coastered) messing with this issue. Hey Pain_Man ! Reading through your posts I thought I better say to not bother with the Verb DVD-R DL's !! Not suitable for burning Dual Layer images for playback on your standalones - if its not too late cancel the order or send em back unopened !
Pain_Man Posted April 10, 2006 Author Posted April 10, 2006 (edited) Four cops taze you, beat you with their T-47s like you were steak, toss you down a flight of stairs, break your nose and falsely imprison you, not to mention, beat the crap out of your son before your eyes, handcuff your daughter in law and tear your screaming grandkid out her arms. Damn PM..... makes me wanna go back to work....... Tazer's a lot of fun, hunh? Shot 'em and then zap 'em while taking bets to see how high they can jump? "Six feet!" I had one encounter with your former colleagues when I lived in Indiana. Guy was as nice as he could be. I had a headlight out and a tail-light and my driver's license was a helluva mess (too long to explain here but he could have legally seized the car). He let me go. Oh, he was also extremely polite. One of the nicest cops I've ever run into (in a potentially "confrontational" situation, that is). None of this "YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITY" bullshit. So my impression of the Indiana State cops remains a good one. The West Lafayette locals were cool too. I ran a red light in front of a W. Lafayette captain (I just happened to be driving by County Jail). It had been snowing (that kind that melts as soon as it hits the ground and makes a soupy, slick mess) and I got distracted by something to me left--no it wasn't a pair of DDs--and I ended up sailing through the red light. It was either that or spin out. I explained this to the cop and he accepted it, no ticket. Then, as he turned to walk away, I said, "Sir, you might want to know, before you call me in, that my driver's license is suspended, I have no insurance and the truck's tags are punched." His eyes nearly bugged out of his head. I could see them around his shades. He was so shocked he couldn't speak for a moment. Then all he said was, "Take it home, park it and get all of it fixed. I see you again and you're not legal, I'm taking it." Indiana cops, nicest I've ever dealt with anywhere (the only place my civil rights haven't been violated.) I don't know anywhere else I could talk myself out of two tickets and getting my car impounded (twice!) all in a month. My ex-wife may have been conducting penile research with most of the campus at Purdue, but the cops were righteous. The Purdue Campus cops on the other hand... Edited April 10, 2006 by Pain_Man
Pain_Man Posted April 11, 2006 Author Posted April 11, 2006 I even ordered a new tenner of DLs (plus my first pack of -R DLs) since I've used so many DLs (five of the damn things, well one was just bad and coastered) messing with this issue. Hey Pain_Man ! Reading through your posts I thought I better say to not bother with the Verb DVD-R DL's !! Not suitable for burning Dual Layer images for playback on your standalones - if its not too late cancel the order or send em back unopened ! They're that bad? What about using 'em for data (specifically music files)?
polopony Posted April 11, 2006 Posted April 11, 2006 yep those Indiana cops are the greatest ,I was going back to Shaw AFB in S Carolina with one of my buddies I was driving and I had the pedal to the floor I came up on a brown car just putting along in the left lane (speed Lane for the Euro crowd ) I made eye contact in the mirrors signaled him to move over he did and I flew past him and when I was even with his car I saw the Indiana State Police patch, he shook his head and signaled me to slow down and thats all that happened ,when we hit Columbia ,S carolina we were crusing at 115mph blew past a cop sitting on the side of the road and the chase was on he eventually caught us when we slowed down for the city limits ,took all the money we had except $5 bucks we needed for gas and let us off with a warning ticket ,we didn't have much cash left after being on leave so it was worth it
lfcrule1972 Posted April 11, 2006 Posted April 11, 2006 I don't know Pain_Man did you see this ? http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?showtopic=697
Pain_Man Posted April 11, 2006 Author Posted April 11, 2006 yep those Indiana cops are the greatest ,I was going back to Shaw AFB in S Carolina with one of my buddies I was driving and I had the pedal to the floor I came up on a brown car just putting along in the left lane (speed Lane for the Euro crowd ) I made eye contact in the mirrors signaled him to move over he did and I flew past him and when I was even with his car I saw the Indiana State Police patch, he shook his head and signaled me to slow down and thats all that happened ,when we hit Columbia ,S carolina we were crusing at 115mph blew past a cop sitting on the side of the road and the chase was on he eventually caught us when we slowed down for the city limits ,took all the money we had except $5 bucks we needed for gas and let us off with a warning ticket ,we didn't have much cash left after being on leave so it was worth it A police officer extorted money from you? Why I'm just shocked, pony, just shocked! Seriously, I'd have taken the deal too. I've had cops confiscate other, ah, things than money. With the prospect of my old man bailing me out of jail, I was happy to give up. In fact, I'd probably have paid to stay in jail rather than have faced my Dad back in high school. Reckless driving not exactly healthy for the insurance rates. I read somewhere that it tends to raise your rates higher than a DUI.
Pain_Man Posted April 11, 2006 Author Posted April 11, 2006 I don't know Pain_Man did you see this ? http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?showtopic=697 No I hadn't looked. Failure after 11%, that's not good. Lemme see, when did you do that test...3 months ago. If had been six months or more I might have asked, perhaps they've improved. Also, I've never seen a IBG graph like that. The DLs I've burned (all +R DLs) look sort of like suspension bridges. The Pioneer 110D doesn't produce as smooth a graph as the Plextor but nothing like that mess. And it llooks like verify failed. Yeah, that does give me pause. Guess they'll be going back. Thanks for the link and the head's up (strike that, reverse it). I'm still having trouble getting test data out of DVDInfoPro. Using a screenshot of test done by Grain, I can't get the settings to match his.
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