Burn and verify are very fast, but read is very slow

[imgpaul]

Hello,

 

 

 

I am in the process of changing my burn software (from CdBurnXp to ImgBurn), but I have a problem reading all Dvd I write with ImgBurn.

I use the "Write files/folders to disc" button.

The burn is always successful, but when I try to read, it is incredibly slow.

 

I have tried it (write and read) on 3 computers :

-XP 32 bit, on a 5 years old computer.

-Vista 64 bit on a 1 year old computer.

-Vista 64 bit on a 1 week old high-end workstation.

The read is slow on all computers, even when it was burned on its own Dvd drive.

 

 

Write and verify steps take 7 minutes, with no problem at all, on all computers.

When I try to read back from the Dvd to a local hard disk, it takes 56 minutes !

If I burn exactly the same directory with 2 other burners (CdBurnXP and DeepBurner), I can read the result in 15 minutes.

 

Even at the beginning of the copy (I type CTRL-C on the Dvd content, then CTRL-V on the local hard disk),

I see the Microsoft Windows pop-up refreshing the number of files to copy and the total size.

This part (before the copy actually start) takes :

-63 seconds for a Dvd burned with ImgBurn.

-2 seconds for a Dvd burned with CdBurnXP or DeepBurner.

 

Another difference :

If the Dvd was burned using ImgBurn, the drive makes a lot of noise when I read it (to copy to hard disk), as if the head was moving a lot.

Almost no noise at all is heard at read-time when I burn using other burners.

 

Of course, for all my tests, the Dvd contains exactly the same files, burned from the same directory.

 

 

Here is how I install ImgBurn v2.5.0.0 :

During installation, I switch ON this setting : "Enable SPTI access for All Users".

After installation, I switch ON these settings (from Tools-->Settings) :

Build-->Page2-->Don't Prompt Image Details

Build-->Page2-->Don't Prompt Root Content-->Answer NO

After clicking on "Write files/folders to disc", I switch ON this setting :

Advanced-->Restrictions-->ISO9660-->Allow More Than 8 Directory Levels

 

Everything else is set as default.

 

So my tests were done using the default Options-->FileSystem-->ISO9660 + UDF

Then I tried the "UDF" setting, just in case ISO9660 was guilty, but the problem is exactly the same.

 

The directory I write is always the same for years, it contains 20 000 files (1700 folders, 1.6 Gigabytes), it's my backup containing a lot of stuff (.txt .jpg .doc .html .cpp .h etc...).

 

The tests were done using the same Sony Dvd-R medias (SONY16D1) on all computers.

I also tried Fujifilm media (RITEKF1), but same problem.

 

 

It's probably my fault, so please tell me what switch I forgot to change in the ImgBurn settings.

 

 

Thanks a lot,

 

Paul

 

 

 

 

 

I 08:46:02 ImgBurn Version 2.5.0.0 started!

I 08:46:02 Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium x64 Edition (6.0, Build 6001 : Service Pack 1)

I 08:46:02 Total Physical Memory: 8 386 684 KB - Available: 6 626 676 KB

I 08:46:02 Initialising SPTI...

I 08:46:02 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...

I 08:46:02 Found 1 DVD-ROM and 1 DVD±RW/RAM!

I 08:46:32 Operation Started!

I 08:46:32 Building Image Tree...

W 08:46:33 Skipped Hidden File: D:\temp\incremental\kob_d\divers\dev\Wiimote\other\MouseCapture\Help\images\Thumbs.db

W 08:46:33 Skipped Hidden File: D:\temp\incremental\kob_d\divers\dev\Wiimote\other\MouseCapture\Help\res\Thumbs.db

W 08:46:33 Skipped Hidden File: D:\temp\incremental\pub_dev\bin\maya\icons\FinalRig_icons\Thumbs.db

W 08:46:34 Skipped Hidden File: D:\temp\incremental\pub_dev\bin\vlc\http\admin\.access

I 08:46:40 Calculating Totals...

I 08:46:40 Preparing Image...

I 08:46:46 Checking Path Length...

I 08:46:46 Contents: 19 491 Files, 1 716 Folders

I 08:46:46 Content Type: Data

I 08:46:46 Data Type: MODE1/2048

I 08:46:46 File System(s): ISO9660, UDF (1.02)

I 08:46:46 Volume Label: sparx_incremental

I 08:46:46 Size: 1 661 887 818 bytes

I 08:46:46 Sectors: 821 555

I 08:46:46 Image Size: 1 734 803 456 bytes

I 08:46:46 Image Sectors: 847 072

I 08:46:46 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:00:13

I 08:46:46 Operation Started!

I 08:46:46 Source File: -==/\/[bUILD IMAGE]\/\==-

I 08:46:46 Source File Sectors: 847 072 (MODE1/2048)

I 08:46:46 Source File Size: 1 734 803 456 bytes

I 08:46:46 Source File Volume Identifier: sparx_incremental

I 08:46:46 Source File Application Identifier: IMGBURN V2.5.0.0 - THE ULTIMATE IMAGE BURNER!

I 08:46:46 Source File Implementation Identifier: ImgBurn

I 08:46:46 Source File File System(s): ISO9660; UDF (1.02)

I 08:46:46 Destination Device: [3:0:0] TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-S223F SB00 (F:) (ATA)

I 08:46:46 Destination Media Type: DVD-R (Disc ID: SONY16D1) (Speeds: 4x; 6x; 8x; 12x; 16x; 18x)

I 08:46:46 Destination Media Sectors: 2 297 888

I 08:46:46 Write Mode: DVD

I 08:46:46 Write Type: DAO

I 08:46:46 Write Speed: MAX

I 08:46:46 Link Size: Auto

I 08:46:46 Lock Volume: Yes

I 08:46:46 Test Mode: No

I 08:46:46 OPC: No

I 08:46:46 BURN-Proof: Enabled

I 08:46:47 Filling Buffer... (40 MB)

I 08:46:47 Writing LeadIn...

I 08:47:18 Writing Session 1 of 1... (1 Track, LBA: 0 - 847071)

I 08:47:18 Writing Track 1 of 1... (MODE1/2048, LBA: 0 - 847071)

I 08:49:25 Synchronising Cache...

I 08:49:35 Exporting Graph Data...

I 08:49:35 Graph Data File: C:\Users\maya\AppData\Roaming\ImgBurn\Graph Data Files\TSSTcorp_CDDVDW_SH-S223F_SB00_JEUDI-5-NOVEMBRE-2009_08-46_SONY16D1_MAX.ibg

I 08:49:35 Export Successfully Completed!

I 08:49:35 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:02:49

I 08:49:35 Average Write Rate: 13 445 KB/s (9.7x) - Maximum Write Rate: 17 372 KB/s (12.5x)

I 08:49:36 Cycling Tray before Verify...

W 08:49:42 Waiting for device to become ready...

I 08:49:58 Device Ready!

I 08:49:59 Operation Started!

I 08:49:59 Source Device: [3:0:0] TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-S223F SB00 (F:) (ATA)

I 08:49:59 Source Media Type: DVD-R (Book Type: DVD-R) (Disc ID: SONY16D1) (Speeds: 4x; 6x; 8x; 12x; 16x; 18x)

I 08:49:59 Image File: -==/\/[bUILD IMAGE]\/\==-

I 08:49:59 Image File Sectors: 847 072 (MODE1/2048)

I 08:49:59 Image File Size: 1 734 803 456 bytes

I 08:49:59 Image File Volume Identifier: sparx_incremental

I 08:49:59 Image File Application Identifier: IMGBURN V2.5.0.0 - THE ULTIMATE IMAGE BURNER!

I 08:49:59 Image File Implementation Identifier: ImgBurn

I 08:49:59 Image File File System(s): ISO9660; UDF (1.02)

I 08:49:59 Read Speed (Data/Audio): MAX / MAX

I 08:49:59 Verifying Session 1 of 1... (1 Track, LBA: 0 - 847071)

I 08:49:59 Verifying Track 1 of 1... (MODE1/2048, LBA: 0 - 847071)

I 08:53:34 Exporting Graph Data...

I 08:53:34 Graph Data File: C:\Users\maya\AppData\Roaming\ImgBurn\Graph Data Files\TSSTcorp_CDDVDW_SH-S223F_SB00_JEUDI-5-NOVEMBRE-2009_08-46_SONY16D1_MAX.ibg

I 08:53:34 Export Successfully Completed!

I 08:53:34 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:03:35

I 08:53:34 Average Verify Rate: 7 879 KB/s (5.7x) - Maximum Verify Rate: 15 515 KB/s (11.2x)

[LIGHTNING UK!]

I guess it must come down to the physical order of the files on the disc and the order in which Explorer tries to read them when you drag+drop or copy+paste everything.

 

I can't say that I've ever performed any read back speed tests using that method of copying or paid much attention to the order Explorer does things.

 

ImgBurn gives you 2 choices for the layout of files, either it writes an entire folder (inc sub folders) sequentially or it writes folders in the same directory level sequentially. Files within folders are stored alphabetically.

 

i.e. given the following folder structure:

 

\Folder1\

\Folder1\Folder2

\Folder3\

\Folder3\Folder4

 

it'll either lay them out as:

 

Folder1 -> Folder2 -> Folder3 -> Folder4

 

or it'll do it as:

 

Folder1 -> Folder3 -> Folder2 -> Folder4

 

If you want to look into it a bit more, examine the discs using IsoBuster and see if you can work out the basic order of the files/folders (look at the LBA values) and compare them.

[mmalves]

I 08:46:46 Destination Device: [3:0:0] TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-S223F SB00 (F:) (ATA)

http://www.firmwarehq.com/Samsung/SH-S223F/files.html

[imgpaul]

ImgBurn gives you 2 choices for the layout of files, either it writes an entire folder (inc sub folders) sequentially or it writes folders in the same directory level sequentially. Files within folders are stored alphabetically.

 

Thanks for your fast reply !

 

I'm not sure what setting can give 2 choices for "layout of files" in ImgBurn, is it one of these 2 settings on Build-->Page 1 ?

-Group Files by directory levels.

-Sort files by source list order.

 

Cheers.

Edited November 5, 2009 by imgpaul

[LIGHTNING UK!]

The first one.

 

But before you change it, you should just look at the stuff in IsoBuster. Once you've clicked through a couple of directories it should be simple to find out the order the burning program uses (the other programs that is).

[imgpaul]

The first one.

 

But before you change it, you should just look at the stuff in IsoBuster. Once you've clicked through a couple of directories it should be simple to find out the order the burning program uses (the other programs that is).

As I can't install IsoBuster today, let's try the setting :

I switched "Group Files by directory levels" from OFF to ON, and tried exactly the same process.

Same problem...

 

 

Well, tomorrow I will install IsoBuster and search the difference, I will let you know.

 

Thanks !

[LIGHTNING UK!]

I did a quick test in Vista where I opened a disc with 100,000+ files on it, pressed Ctrl+A to select everything, pressed Ctrl+C to copy my selection to the clipboard and Ctrl+V to paste it to a hdd.

 

Explorer copied stuff an folder (i.e. inc sub folders) at a time - meaning ImgBurn's default method is already perfect for it... but that's only in terms of file layout.

 

When you look in IsoBuster, pay attention to the LBA of the actual folders. They'll either all be located together at the start of the disc (which is what I do) or they'll be all over the disc, normally just before the file data for that particular folder.

 

i.e.

 

Folder1\

Folder2\

Folder1\File1

Folder2\File2

 

or

 

Folder1\

Folder1\File1

Folder2\

Folder2\File2

[imgpaul]

Thank you a lot for the time you have already spent helping me !

 

 

 

Ok, I installed IsoBuster.

 

I'm not sure where to look for the layout of files and folders, as what I see in Isobuster is the same thing I see in the source (hard disk).

(even the Dvd I burned using "Group Files by Directory Levels" looks the same)

 

 

In the following description (which reproduces what I see in IsoBuster), in front of each folder I write the LBA value found in isoBuster (right mouse button-->Properties)

I only show folders here (files are deep in the hierarchy, and have an LBA value higher than 1)

 

Dvd burned using ImgBurn :
Dvd-R			847 072
 Session1		847 072
   Track01		847 072
     ISO INCREMENTAL	1
       INCREMEN	1
         KOBOLSPX	1
           DIVERS	1
             BACKUP_T	1
     UDF incremental
       incremental
         kobolspx_d
           divers
             backup_telephone

 

In "UDF", I can't get the LBA number, isoBuster tells me I have to register to get that information...

 

 

 

Dvd burned using DeepBurner :
Dvd-R			825 760
 Session1		825 760
   Track01		825 760
     ISO INCREMENTAL	1
       INCREMENTAL	1
         KOBOLSPX	1
           DIVERS	1
             BACKUP_TELEPHONE	1
     >>> incremental (Joliet)
       incremental
         kobolspx_d
           divers
             backup_telephone

 

As you can see, with default settings ImgBurn "ISO" limits folders name to 8 characters, the other burner limits to 13.

I guess this is not important.

 

 

When I export LBA full path as text, I get similar result (except folder name size, 8 vs 13) between ImgBurn and "other burner".

No folder is ever listed alone, only as part of a file path.

Exporting that text file using Isoburner takes 40 seconds for the ImgBurn Dvd, and 1 second for the "other" burner.

 

 

Something important is shown in IsoBuster :

ImgBurn : ISO+UDF

DeepBurner : ISO+Joliet.

 

 

I have tried another burn (using ImgBurn), with option ISO9660+Joliet.

Operation is successfully completed, but I get dozens of warnings, like this :

 

W 11:58:41 Joliet File: '\incremental\pub_dev\bin\python25\Scripts\helpviewer' -> 'helpviewer.' (OS Path: C:\tempo\incremental\pub_dev\bin\python25\Scripts\helpviewer)

 

It seems all files that have no extension raise that warning, but they are burned anyway, so I guess nothing is lost here (I hope so).

 

 

Let's try to copy this "ISO+Joliet" Dvd to my Hard Disk :

The copy "preparation" is a little faster.

The copy itself is very fast now !!!

 

 

So, whatever the problem is, it's related to UDF.

 

 

Thanks !

Edited November 6, 2009 by imgpaul

[LIGHTNING UK!]

ISO9660 limits the names to 8.3 format by default (folders have no extension, hence 8 characters). You can change that in the 'Restrictions' tab. You can also manipulate the one for file extensions.

 

Of course if you want long file names, that's where you'd use Joliet or UDF anyway.

 

The UDF file system has a special descriptor for every file (1 sector of information about the file). So if Explorer (or anything else) ends up keeping tabs on the location of that descriptor rather than the file itself when you do copy+paste, it would have to keep moving the drive head forwards and backwards to read them (and find the location of the actual file) before reading the file data itself.

[imgpaul]

ISO9660 limits the names to 8.3 format by default (folders have no extension, hence 8 characters). You can change that in the 'Restrictions' tab. You can also manipulate the one for file extensions.

Well, the current setting (8.3) doesn't prevent the files copied back from the Dvd to the hard disk to have the full name (I guess the full name is hidden somewhere in the Dvd), so it doesn't seem to be a problem.

 

The UDF file system has a special descriptor for every file (1 sector of information about the file). So if Explorer (or anything else) ends up keeping tabs on the location of that descriptor rather than the file itself when you do copy+paste, it would have to keep moving the drive head forwards and backwards to read them (and find the location of the actual file) before reading the file data itself.

So I guess the solution is to use ISO+Joliet ?

 

I don't understand how you managed to make it work with 100,000 files, did you use ISO+Joliet ?

 

Thanks a lot.

Edited November 6, 2009 by imgpaul

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Well, the current setting (8.3) doesn't prevent the files copied back from the Dvd to the hard disk to have the full name (I guess the full name is hidden somewhere in the Dvd), so it doesn't seem to be a problem.

 

The OS will the best file system on the disc and get the names from that.

 

So if you have ISO9660+Joliet, it'll read Joliet.

 

Therefore it makes no difference what the ISO9660 file has recorded for the name because it'll never get used.

 

If UDF is present the OS will use that over Joliet and ISO9660.

 

So I guess the solution is to use ISO+Joliet ?

 

For reading the files (rather than creating an image), it would appear ISO9660 / Joliet are quicker than UDF (and I'm purely talking about parsing the file system here, reading the file data is exactly the same speed regardless).

 

Of course if you don't actually need to read *everything* off the disc via explorer, you'd probably never notice it.

 

I don't understand how you managed to make it work with 100,000 files, did you use ISO+Joliet ?

 

I only used my 100,000+ file disc to see the order in which the files were copied over.

 

It doesn't have 100,000+ physical files on it, just a lot of links to the same physical file - i.e. duplicate files have been optimised so only 1 copy of that file is actually stored on the disc.

 

The disc just uses ISO9660 but that's not really relevant here as like I said, it was just being used to check the copying order. The disc itself wasn't even created by my program.

[imgpaul]

With all these informations, I'm less an idiot than I was yesterday, thanks !

 

One last question:

Do I have to be concerned about the warnings that Joliet raises on files that have no extension ?

 

W 11:58:41 Joliet File: '\incremental\pub_dev\bin\python25\Scripts\helpviewer' -> 'helpviewer.' (OS Path: C:\tempo\incremental\pub_dev\bin\python25\Scripts\helpviewer)

[LIGHTNING UK!]

That's a tough one to answer.

 

It all depends on the program that uses them!

 

Ideally though, you wouldn't want there to be any warnings/errors the 'best' file system you've selected.

 

So what I'd do if I were you is tell ImgBurn to allow files without extensions on the Joliet Restrictions tab.

[imgpaul]

Ok, I will do as advised.

 

 

Thanks a lot for your help !!!