Burnfreak888 Posted April 1, 2010 Author Posted April 1, 2010 Hi Cynthia !!! I've burned the Verbatim DVD-R 16x TYG03 at 4x and below's the log, graph and scan result. Please take a look. Thank you. I 17:48:05 ImgBurn Version 2.5.1.0 started! I 17:48:05 Microsoft Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600 : Service Pack 3) I 17:48:05 Total Physical Memory: 2,095,828 KB - Available: 1,388,924 KB I 17:48:05 Initialising SPTI... I 17:48:05 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices... I 17:48:05 -> Drive 1 - Info: Optiarc DVD RW AD-7240S 1.03 (H:) (ATA) I 17:48:05 -> Drive 2 - Info: SONY DVD RW DRU-720A JY08 (D:) (ATA) I 17:48:05 Found 1 DVD±RW and 1 DVD±RW/RAM! I 17:58:14 Operation Started! I 17:58:14 Source File: S:\P4.MDS I 17:58:14 Source File Sectors: 2,151,344 (MODE1/2048) I 17:58:14 Source File Size: 4,405,952,512 bytes I 17:58:14 Source File Volume Set Identifier: P4 I 17:58:14 Source File Application Identifier: IMGBURN V2.5.1.0 - THE ULTIMATE IMAGE BURNER! I 17:58:14 Source File Implementation Identifier: ImgBurn I 17:58:14 Source File File System(s): ISO9660, UDF (1.02) I 17:58:14 Destination Device: [2:0:0] Optiarc DVD RW AD-7240S 1.03 (H:) (ATA) I 17:58:14 Destination Media Type: DVD-R (Disc ID: TYG03) (Speeds: 4x, 6x, 8x, 12x, 16x, 18x, 20x, 24x) I 17:58:14 Destination Media Sectors: 2,297,888 I 17:58:14 Write Mode: DVD I 17:58:14 Write Type: DAO I 17:58:14 Write Speed: 4x I 17:58:14 Link Size: Auto I 17:58:14 Lock Volume: Yes I 17:58:14 Test Mode: No I 17:58:15 OPC: No I 17:58:15 BURN-Proof: Enabled I 17:58:15 Write Speed Successfully Set! - Effective: 5,540 KB/s (4x) I 17:58:15 Filling Buffer... (40 MB) I 17:58:16 Writing LeadIn... I 17:58:49 Writing Session 1 of 1... (1 Track, LBA: 0 - 2151343) I 17:58:49 Writing Track 1 of 1... (MODE1/2048, LBA: 0 - 2151343) I 18:12:09 Synchronising Cache... I 18:12:28 Exporting Graph Data... I 18:12:28 Graph Data File: C:\Documents and Settings\Burnfreak888\Application Data\ImgBurn\Graph Data Files\Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7240S_1.03_WEDNESDAY-MARCH-31-2010_5-58_PM_TYG03_4x.ibg I 18:12:28 Export Successfully Completed! I 18:12:28 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:14:13 I 18:12:28 Average Write Rate: 5,378 KB/s (3.9x) - Maximum Write Rate: 5,800 KB/s (4.2x) I 18:12:28 Cycling Tray before Verify... W 18:12:36 Waiting for device to become ready... I 18:12:46 Device Ready! I 18:12:47 Operation Started! I 18:12:47 Source Device: [2:0:0] Optiarc DVD RW AD-7240S 1.03 (H:) (ATA) I 18:12:47 Source Media Type: DVD-R (Book Type: DVD-R) (Disc ID: TYG03) (Speeds: 4x, 6x, 8x, 12x, 16x, 18x, 20x, 24x) I 18:12:47 Image File: S:\P4.MDS I 18:12:47 Image File Sectors: 2,151,344 (MODE1/2048) I 18:12:47 Image File Size: 4,405,952,512 bytes I 18:12:47 Image File Volume Set Identifier: P4 I 18:12:47 Image File Application Identifier: IMGBURN V2.5.1.0 - THE ULTIMATE IMAGE BURNER! I 18:12:47 Image File Implementation Identifier: ImgBurn I 18:12:47 Image File File System(s): ISO9660, UDF (1.02) I 18:12:47 Read Speed (Data/Audio): MAX / MAX I 18:12:47 Verifying Session 1 of 1... (1 Track, LBA: 0 - 2151343) I 18:12:47 Verifying Track 1 of 1... (MODE1/2048, LBA: 0 - 2151343) I 18:17:35 Exporting Graph Data... I 18:17:35 Graph Data File: C:\Documents and Settings\Burnfreak888\Application Data\ImgBurn\Graph Data Files\Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7240S_1.03_WEDNESDAY-MARCH-31-2010_5-58_PM_TYG03_4x.ibg I 18:17:35 Export Successfully Completed! I 18:17:35 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:04:48 I 18:17:35 Average Verify Rate: 14,991 KB/s (10.8x) - Maximum Verify Rate: 21,731 KB/s (15.7x)
Cynthia Posted April 1, 2010 Posted April 1, 2010 1. The 7240 can burn ok with that media 2. The Sony can scan ok. The Q is just what makes it look crazy with DL media.
Burnfreak888 Posted April 2, 2010 Author Posted April 2, 2010 1. The 7240 can burn ok with that media 2. The Sony can scan ok. The Q is just what makes it look crazy with DL media. 1. So should I reburn those with red PI errors or keep them ? How about greens with yellows ??? 2. If the DRU is ok then why is it being picky like I stated in my earlier post ??? Q also ??? Just to remind you here are the statistics : -Total burned DLs are about 29 discs and all are MKM-03-00 and burned with DRU-720A and ImgBurn at 2.4x. -From that total, 22 are recognized and 7 aren't. -From the 22 that are recognized, 17 have quality ratings between 91%-99% and 5 have quality ratings between 51%-73% (Only 1 has 51.75% while the rest have above 70%) -The 7 that aren't recognized, I gave them a try with the Optiarc and the Optiarc recognizes them. So I scanned them and they have quality ratings between 55%-86%. (Only 1 got 55.92%, 2 is all green and the rest is greens and yellows). Thank you very much for ur answers.
Cynthia Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 The only thing that I can think of is that the quality in those Verbatim DL spindles vary a lot.
Burnfreak888 Posted April 16, 2010 Author Posted April 16, 2010 (edited) Hi Cynthia !!! I hope you're noticing this post coz I need to confirm with you on a few things. I think I'm on the verge of resolving my problems. If you remember from my earlier posts, I have 2 major problems which are : 1. Recently burned MKM-003-00 have bad scan results and quality ratings after burned with AD-7240S. 2. Previously burned MKM-003-00 are not recognized by DRU-720A. I've been testing and experimenting this past two weeks. After doing a lot of observing, I can say that I've found the reason why my DRU being picky. It's because of the tray mechanism motor is starting to lose its rotating power, resulting the part with laser rail wouldn't always go up all the way like it should be when the tray closes. So when the laser rail doesn't go up, it won't recognize ANY disc. When I give the tray a push to help the tray closes a little speedier, the laser rail would go all the way up and recognizes ALL the previously unrecognized DL. I guess I can put a rest on problem number 2. Can you confirm this ??? Have you experienced the same with older drives being picky ??? As for problem number 1, which is more complicated, it turns out that my suspicion on my airflow is correct after all. At least for now. Previously I noticed that the AD-7240S is not as sturdy as the DRU or older drives. The materials are so thin maybe due to lower manufacturing cost. This causes the inside of the Optiarc to get hot easier than the DRU. To test this, I put two disc inside both drives for the same amount of time and found that the disc inside the Optiarc was unusually warmer/hotter than the other. And then I bought 2 spindles of MKM-003-00 MIT from 2 different vendors, let's just say spindle A & B : -1st I burned a disc from spindle A WITHOUT improved airflow. It had a nasty red PIE spike around layer break and so so quality rating : -After that I improved the airflow a little bit and burned another spindle A. Voila !!! Suddenly the scan result is good and the rating is high. And no spike around layer break like I usually had with my burns previously : -To make sure that this is not a coincidence, I burned another spindle A for the 3rd time without changing the airflow setup. Voila !!! Another good scan and high rating like it should be with the AD-7240S & MKM-003-00 combo : -Satisfied with the test result, I decided to fool around a little and open my CPU side cover. But this time, I burned from spindle B. This time I had a little less satisfying scan and rating due to yellows. But I'm still pretty sure that had I not improve the airflow or open the side case, the scan would get some reds and the rating would've been lower. I suspect this time the opened side cover for the less desired results since it's against good airflow & heat transfer principle : -At this point, it's only obvious to burn another from spindle B. So I did that but this time I put the side cover back. To my surprise, the result is not better. It still has yellows and even a little lower rating. At this point, I suspect the batch quality of spindle B to have a contribution to this result : -If the batch quality of spindle B is off, then it can only be proven by burning another spindle B with the same setup as above. I did that and this time I got reds and of course a drop in rating !!! This result resembles the previous batch before A & B. -Still sure that trapped heat plays some kind of a role to these results, I reel the power and SATA cable a little longer and decided to let the drive hangs out from the CPU. So it's not properly seated but I made sure that it doesn't have poor support so it wouldn't fall off. Without doubt, in theory this would help the heat to dissipate better from the drive and without being exposed with the heat from the processor. At the same time with all these results, I always auto-verify and let the disc to cool down before scanning. That's because I fear that if the unsatisfying results I had previously are caused also by letting the disc/dye exposed by heat generated from spinning. So this time I decided to not auto-verify, making it only spinning for a shorter period of time therefore less exposed by the heat. And...the result is better but still has yellows : And this is the end of my experiment temporarily since I ran out of things to burn with. At the moment I'm beginning to suspect the burn speed also as I burned these all at 4x, maybe I will have better results at 8x but I also still considering the batch quality like u said. The only obvious thing to do is to burn spindle A again to see if this is true. I will do this in the near future. In the meantime, I have things I want to confirm : -What do you have to say after reading all this ??? Is this heat thing relevant enough ??? Or the thing with spindle A just a coincidence ??? What I noticed is that I don't have red PIE spike like I used to anymore after I took care the airflow. -I noticed that my DL burns always have an inclining shape for PIE on layer 1. Is this shape common or not ??? Cause I try to relate the shape with the time the discs are in the drive. I think when the PIE begin to take shape and start inclining, that is the time when the disc/dye starts to lose its tolerance to heat and gets ruined. Please notice that the incline always starts after about 3/4 or 75% of the disc. I'm thinking burning at 8x would solve this. What do you think ??? -I noticed the shape of PI speed also. When it's good, it's horizontal. When it's bad, it has a shape like a dome/umbrella/half-ellips. Is this common ??? Why is this ??? And what is PI speed anyway ??? -I noticed that the results for AD-7240S/MKM-003-00 from Drives/Media section scanned by Lite-Ons, have all green PIE with 93%-94% quality ratings. While mine have 93%-94% too but the PIE have yellows. Why is this ??? Which is better ??? Should I purchase a Lite-On ??? What Lite-On is the BEST scanner right now ??? -If the art of burning is a matter of burner-media-firmware combo, would downgrading the FW to 1.02 or 1.01 MIGHT give a better result for me ??? I'm really sorry to drag you with me on this and I know maybe this is the wrong forum to do so either. But you've been very helpful here and know my problem very well from the start. I had posted my problems in a bigger forum with little response. So I guess I can only look for confirmation here. I really hope you're willing to assist me again this time. Thank you very much in advance for your response, kind Cynthia !!! Edited April 17, 2010 by Burnfreak888
Cynthia Posted April 17, 2010 Posted April 17, 2010 -What do you have to say after reading all this ??? Is this heat thing relevant enough ??? Or the thing with spindle A just a coincidence ??? What I noticed is that I don't have red PIE spike like I used to anymore after I took care the airflow. Remember seeing some discussions ages ago about heat impact on burnings. The question is if it's the electronic that gets overheated or the disc surface to much. I have one burner attached to USB in an external cabinet and I can't say I get better burns due to the fan in that cabinet. But looking at the posted scans it do seems that in your case heat has an impact. -I noticed that my DL burns always have an inclining shape for PIE on layer 1. Is this shape common or not ??? Cause I try to relate the shape with the time the discs are in the drive. I think when the PIE begin to take shape and start inclining, that is the time when the disc/dye starts to lose its tolerance to heat and gets ruined. Please notice that the incline always starts after about 3/4 or 75% of the disc. I'm thinking burning at 8x would solve this. What do you think ??? Might also be that if you burn at a higher speed, the rotation is higher and therefore more heat is developed. Also on low quality single layer discs, the burn results are often worst after around 75-85 % of the burn. -I noticed the shape of PI speed also. When it's good, it's horizontal. When it's bad, it has a shape like a dome/umbrella/half-ellips. Is this common ??? Why is this ??? And what is PI speed anyway ??? Speed displays the revolutions per minute the media is rotating at, within the storage hardware. Gone through my own scannings on DL media and I can't find any umbrella shaped curves on those. You are using the latest version 6.138 of DVDInfoPro? Even on crappy scans the line is pretty straight. -I noticed that the results for AD-7240S/MKM-003-00 from Drives/Media section scanned by Lite-Ons, have all green PIE with 93%-94% quality ratings. While mine have 93%-94% too but the PIE have yellows. Why is this ??? Which is better ??? Should I purchase a Lite-On ??? What Lite-On is the BEST scanner right now ??? Yellow is quality between green and red. Might be that genuine Lite-Ons are a little better of reading discs and therefore tend to give a better quality (green instead of yellow). More or less any genuine Lite-On should work. Beware that there are some Lite-Ons that are really Nec based and those are not good at scanning. I'm finally planning on getting one of these Slimline eSAU108 / eSAU208 for scanning purpose as I need the current space my Lite-On is using for other drives. http://www.xbox360videos.com/index.php?key=ESAU108-96 -If the art of burning is a matter of burner-media-firmware combo, would downgrading the FW to 1.02 or 1.01 MIGHT give a better result for me ??? Normally you should expect the latest version to be the best. I haven't seen any change log of the versions so I have no clue what they have changed.
Burnfreak888 Posted April 18, 2010 Author Posted April 18, 2010 (edited) Remember seeing some discussions ages ago about heat impact on burnings. The question is if it's the electronic that gets overheated or the disc surface to much. I have one burner attached to USB in an external cabinet and I can't say I get better burns due to the fan in that cabinet. But looking at the posted scans it do seems that in your case heat has an impact. Could you please refer me a link to that discussion if you don't mind ??? Or at least supply me with some keywords ??? I tried to ask grandpa google about this but had no luck. But it's OK if you couldn't since it's ages ago. Might also be that if you burn at a higher speed, the rotation is higher and therefore more heat is developed. Also on low quality single layer discs, the burn results are often worst after around 75-85 % of the burn. Yeah, I thought about this also. But I wouldn't know for sure until I tried it and got smacked with the hammer-of-reality on my forehead. Gone through my own scannings on DL media and I can't find any umbrella shaped curves on those. You are using the latest version 6.138 of DVDInfoPro? Even on crappy scans the line is pretty straight. I still use v6.131. Does this make any difference ??? Well, this is kind of disturbing for me also, that my drive having a symptom that seems unexplainable even to the pros . I wonder if this (umbrella-shape PIE speed) is the sign that the DRU is aging or doesn't quite fit with quality scanning tasks. Do you have a say on this ??? I'm finally planning on getting one of these Slimline eSAU108 / eSAU208 for scanning purpose as I need the current space my Lite-On is using for other drives. So this eSAU108 / eSAU208 is like the best Lite-On scanner out there ??? I tried to look for DH-20A3H here but cannot find any. They all sell newer Lite-On 24x drives. How about the iHAS series ??? Which one you'd recommend ??? Normally you should expect the latest version to be the best. I haven't seen any change log of the versions so I have no clue what they have changed. Yeah, it should be. I'm just dumbfounded by the fact that I'm using one of the best burner-media-firmware combo on the planet and getting results like it shouldn't be. I'm thinking of putting this problem to rest and starting to have a peace of mind a little, by purchasing a new drive for scanning. BUT I hesitated to do so since from our conversation, you seem to imply that even you would trust the DRU for scanning since newer drives are better with reading therefore gives less accurate/precise picture on how good a burn is than older scanner drives. Am I putting this right ??? Please CMIIW. This leads me to another question : Would a drive begin to fail to give trustable quality scans like it would aged and fail to burn/read a disc succesfully ??? Please do enlighten me. Oh yeah one more, I always forget to ask you this : What number of burned discs can we expect from a drive to still retain its burning reliability ??? Just give me an estimation/rough value, like maybe 1000 discs ??? Or maybe a number somebody experienced in real life ??? Thank you very much, Cynthia !!! Edited April 18, 2010 by Burnfreak888
Cynthia Posted April 18, 2010 Posted April 18, 2010 My replies are in red text. Remember seeing some discussions ages ago about heat impact on burnings. The question is if it's the electronic that gets overheated or the disc surface to much. I have one burner attached to USB in an external cabinet and I can't say I get better burns due to the fan in that cabinet. But looking at the posted scans it do seems that in your case heat has an impact. Could you please refer me a link to that discussion if you don't mind ??? Or at least supply me with some keywords ??? I tried to ask grandpa google about this but had no luck. But it's OK if you couldn't since it's ages ago. Most overheating issues when you search has to do with encoding issues and they are not relevant. I also expect some forums to delete old threads. Here is one I found. http://club.myce.com/f87/107-overheating-109355/ Might also be that if you burn at a higher speed, the rotation is higher and therefore more heat is developed. Also on low quality single layer discs, the burn results are often worst after around 75-85 % of the burn. Yeah, I thought about this also. But I wouldn't know for sure until I tried it and got smacked with the hammer-of-reality on my forehead. True. Only a test will tell you for sure. Gone through my own scannings on DL media and I can't find any umbrella shaped curves on those. You are using the latest version 6.138 of DVDInfoPro? Even on crappy scans the line is pretty straight. I still use v6.131. Does this make any difference ??? Well, this is kind of disturbing for me also, that my drive having a symptom that seems unexplainable even to the pros . I wonder if this (umbrella-shape PIE speed) is the sign that the DRU is aging or doesn't quite fit with quality scanning tasks. Do you have a say on this ??? Could be that it's to old and not really up to the standards of current drives. Can't find anything in the recent changelog that referees to such an issue. Had a Sony some time for scanning purpose, but only scanned single layer discs with it. I'm finally planning on getting one of these Slimline eSAU108 / eSAU208 for scanning purpose as I need the current space my Lite-On is using for other drives. So this eSAU108 / eSAU208 is like the best Lite-On scanner out there ??? I tried to look for DH-20A3H here but cannot find any. They all sell newer Lite-On 24x drives. How about the iHAS series ??? Which one you'd recommend ??? Not sure they are the best ones and they are a bit more expensive that the regular ones. They will work as the author of DVDInfoPro is recommending them. I don't like to use Lite-Ons for burning tasks and the USB connected ones are smaller and don't take up any place inside the computer. That's why I want one of those. Currently I use a iHAS120 as scanner. LUK is using a iHAS324. Just avoid the Nec based ones. Had two DH-20A3H before as scanners, but they died for me. One in a firmware flash and the other one rejected to load/read some burned discs. It's a bit old model and have been replaced by other models, so it is tricky to find one. Normally you should expect the latest version to be the best. I haven't seen any change log of the versions so I have no clue what they have changed. Yeah, it should be. I'm just dumbfounded by the fact that I'm using one of the best burner-media-firmware combo on the planet and getting results like it shouldn't be. I'm thinking of putting this problem to rest and starting to have a peace of mind a little, by purchasing a new drive for scanning. BUT I hesitated to do so since from our conversation, you seem to imply that even you would trust the DRU for scanning since newer drives are better with reading therefore gives less accurate/precise picture on how good a burn is than older scanner drives. Am I putting this right ??? Please CMIIW. It is a Sony model, so IMHO it's better to use a genuine Lite-On. This leads me to another question : Would a drive begin to fail to give trustable quality scans like it would aged and fail to burn/read a disc succesfully ??? Please do enlighten me. The Lite-On that died for me, did accurate scans of those DVDs it could load/read when I compared them to a new scan with the iHAS120. Oh yeah one more, I always forget to ask you this : What number of burned discs can we expect from a drive to still retain its burning reliability ??? Just give me an estimation/rough value, like maybe 1000 discs ??? Or maybe a number somebody experienced in real life ??? Most of my DVD burners have been sent to retirement due to replacement of later models. So I've only had two that I've used for regular burning that died for me. A NEC that burned around 900 discs and a Pioneer DVR-110D that lasted around the same amount. But they were also used for ripping discs and that might also have had an impact on the life time. http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?t=49733
Burnfreak888 Posted April 19, 2010 Author Posted April 19, 2010 I don't like to use Lite-Ons for burning tasks So you're strictly using the Lite-On just for scanning, am I right ??? Then I assume its lifetime would be around 900 discs also from your experience ??? So drives do die from scanning tasks ??? Do drives use the read laser when scanning ??? How about TRT ??? Do you do it ??? In which drive you'd do a TRT, the burner or the scanner ??? Currently I use a iHAS120 as scanner. LUK is using a iHAS324. Just avoid the Nec based ones. Had two DH-20A3H before as scanners, but they died for me. One in a firmware flash and the other one rejected to load/read some burned discs. It's a bit old model and have been replaced by other models, so it is tricky to find one. Thank you very much for your recommendation, Cynthia !!! However, how to tell a genuine Lite-On from a NEC-based one ??? I googled and found Lite-On DH-20A4P & DH-20A4H, are these good scanners like their older brother the DH-20A3H ??? My mobo is still P4 and IDE so I prefer IDE over SATA for my scanner. BUT if you say that the iHAS series (SATA) is better/more accurate in some way from your experience, I'd go for the iHAS.
Cynthia Posted April 19, 2010 Posted April 19, 2010 I don't like to use Lite-Ons for burning tasks So you're strictly using the Lite-On just for scanning, am I right ??? Then I assume its lifetime would be around 900 discs also from your experience ??? So drives do die from scanning tasks ??? Do drives use the read laser when scanning ??? Don't like Lite-On for burning as to this thread. I guess drives can die for various reasons. http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?showtopic=7860 How about TRT ??? Do you do it ??? In which drive you'd do a TRT, the burner or the scanner ??? Never do it. Currently I use a iHAS120 as scanner. LUK is using a iHAS324. Just avoid the Nec based ones. Had two DH-20A3H before as scanners, but they died for me. One in a firmware flash and the other one rejected to load/read some burned discs. It's a bit old model and have been replaced by other models, so it is tricky to find one. Thank you very much for your recommendation, Cynthia !!! However, how to tell a genuine Lite-On from a NEC-based one ??? I googled and found Lite-On DH-20A4P & DH-20A4H, are these good scanners like their older brother the DH-20A3H ??? They are usually sold under the same model, like this one iHAS324-08 = Mediatek iHAS324-98 = NEC So you need to look carefully on the package or the label on the drive You also want a drive that can do jitter. Never had a DH-20A4 drive so no idea if they are better or not. My mobo is still P4 and IDE so I prefer IDE over SATA for my scanner. BUT if you say that the iHAS series (SATA) is better/more accurate in some way from your experience, I'd go for the iHAS. Haven't noticed that either should be better. Also had one IDE attached as USB and that made no difference.
Burnfreak888 Posted April 20, 2010 Author Posted April 20, 2010 They are usually sold under the same model, like this one : iHAS324-08 = Mediatek iHAS324-98 = NEC So you need to look carefully on the package or the label on the drive I googled a little bit and found this : iHAS524-32, is this Mediatek also ??? Please CMIIW their difference : iHAS124 : Basic iHAS324 : Basic + SmartErase iHAS424 : Basic + SmartErase + LightScribe iHAS524 : Basic + SmartErase + LightScribe + LabelTag iHASx20 : iHAS technology with 20x speed iHASx22 : iHAS technology with 22x speed iHASx24 : iHAS technology with 24x speed iHASx24-08 : Mediatek chipsets iHASx24-09 : Mediatek chipsets iHASx24-98 : NEC chipsets iHASx24-99 : NEC chipsets iHASx24-32 : ??? iHASx24 A : Mediatek chipsets iHASx24 Y : NEC chipsets Any other iHAS code I should know that isn't mentioned ???
Cynthia Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 The drive i have is designated iHAS524-32 A. So it's a MTK chipset. http://club.myce.com/f44/lite-ihas524-results-discussion-304369/
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