spinningwheel Posted August 3, 2006 Posted August 3, 2006 Whether you agree or not, it's an interesting lesson >> in history. Something to think about... >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Soviet Union In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. >> From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable >> to defend themselves, were rounded up and >> exterminated. >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Turkey In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to >> 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend >> themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Germany >> >> Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 >> to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews & others who were >> unable to defend themselves were rounded up and >> exterminated. >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> China >> >> China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to >> 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to >> defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Guatemala >> >> Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 >> to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend >> themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Uganda >> >> Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to >> 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, >> were rounded up and exterminated. >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Cambodia Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to >> 1977, one million 'educated' people, unable to defend >> themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. >> >> ----------------------------- >> >> Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the >> 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million. >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> It has now been 12 months since gun owners in >> Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 >> personal firearms to be destroyed by their own >> government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more >> than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in: >> >> . Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent >> >> . Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent >> >> . Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent >> (yes, 44 percent)! >> >> . In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with >> firearms are now up 300 percent. >> >> (Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them >> in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess >> their guns!) >> >> While figures over the previous 25 years showed a >> steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this >> has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, >> since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is >> unarmed. >> >> There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins >> and assaults of the ELDERLY. >> >> Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how >> public safety has decreased, after such monumental >> effort and expense was expended in successfully >> ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian >> experience and the other historical facts above prove >> it. >> >> >> You won't see this data on the American evening news >> or hear our president, governors or other politicians >> disseminating this information. >> >> Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and >> property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the >> law-abiding citizens. >> >> Take note my fellow Americans ... before it's too >> late! The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, >> please remind them of this history lesson. >> >> With guns, we are 'citizens'. >> >> Without them, we are 'subjects' <soap box off>
Shamus_McFartfinger Posted August 3, 2006 Posted August 3, 2006 The funny thing about statistics is........... http://www.aic.gov.au/stats/crime/homicide.html EDIT: I remember the gun buyback scheme and a quick search on Google found that it was operating in 1996. Sorry, but the stats disagree with what you?ve quoted. It sounds like scaremongering rhetoric from the pro-gun lobby more than anything else.
Pain_Man Posted August 3, 2006 Posted August 3, 2006 You're stastistic are spot on, as our British cousins say. You can also add that US cities that have enacted gun control (in reality outlawed self-defense) have the highest murder rates in the country. American gunowners are far less likely to be murdered, raped, assaulted and robbed in their own homes. Since Britain outlawed and confiscated handguns Britain now has a higher violent crime rate than the United States. (meaning no offense to my cousins, but if our government attempted such thing there would be a bloodbath; however the vast majority of cops and soldiers would refuse to enforce any such confiscation order. They know it would mean civil war.) Oh, to correct one mistake: It was Lenin who banned private ownership of firearms, not Stalin. And it was in 1919, not 1929. Lenin personally issued order than anyone found possessing a firearm was to be executed. And countless were. Although after Stalin people in rural areas were allowed to own hunting rifles, when Gobachev decided to crack down on the Baltic Republics' drive for independence, the first thing he did was order all hunting rifles to be turned into Soviet authorities. Hitler also banned the ownership of handguns and all rifles except hunting rifles. In the pre-gunpowder age, peasants throughout the world, with few exceptions, were not allowed to possess weapons. In China, this led to the peasants turning agricultural tools (e.g. nunchuks, three part staffs, et al) into weapons to evade the governmental ban. Gun control never works. Ever. Under any circumstances. It only benefits criminals. Crime always increases. These facts are absolutely irrefutable. As enshrined in our Constitution's Second Amendment, the right to own guns is the most important right of all. Without it, all the other rights are utterly meaningless. And.... It's just that simple.
Pain_Man Posted August 3, 2006 Posted August 3, 2006 Unfortunately, Shamus, they are but the bare truth. People I've known who've been to Austrailia tell me that thugs simply walk into stores and steal what they like knowning that the shop owners are powerless to stop them. Supporting the right to bear arms is nothing more than protecting the right to self defense. 2,000,000 times are a year Americans defend themselves with firearms, mostly handguns. If the anti-self defense nuts get their way and strip Americans of their right to defend themselves, millions of people would be murdered, raped, robbed, assaulted, etc. My own great-aunt avoided being raped--and probably murdered--by shooting a home-invader dead. While the massacre at Dunblane was horrible, the banning of handguns was an even greater tragedy. Far more Britons have been victims of crime as a result. To repeat: Britain now has a higher rate of violent crime than the US (where violent crimes have been declining for the last 10 years). The funny thing about statistics is........... http://www.aic.gov.au/stats/crime/homicide.html EDIT: I remember the gun buyback scheme and a quick search on Google found that it was operating in 1996. Sorry, but the stats disagree with what you?ve quoted. It sounds like scaremongering rhetoric from the pro-gun lobby more than anything else.
lfcrule1972 Posted August 3, 2006 Posted August 3, 2006 Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures Or Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable
Defenestration Posted August 3, 2006 Posted August 3, 2006 I agree with Shamus that this is scaremongering from the pro-gun lobby. Check out the following: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/153988.stm
Kenadjian Posted August 3, 2006 Posted August 3, 2006 I really don't care if the stats are true or false, but as I've allways said before, no LAW will make me give up my firearms that I have held for allmost 35+ years. In my opinion they are nothing more than a tool, held and used in the right matter should not bother anyone, and by asking people like myself to hand them in for a "safer Australia" is absolute rubbish. One day one of those people just might be glad that people like myself never handed them in. It is shear ignorance that scares people.
polopony Posted August 3, 2006 Posted August 3, 2006 does everyone think that Washington DC is some safe haven ,its only a government center surrounded by some pretty bad slums and lots of people trying to get by anyway they can, guns, dope, robbery and all sorts of other crimes.
blutach Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 Anybody ever see Bowling For Columbine? Guns in safe hands of responsible owners - maybe. But when they get into the hands of kids (disturbed or otherwise) - no thanks Last time I looked, you didn't need a gun to kill masses of people either - just the political will to create a lawless society. For example, in Rwanda, machetes killed almost a million people in a few months of State sponsored genocide. And, while we quoting stats, our murder rate per capita with firearms is miniscule (as is that of the UK) compared to the USA. Up 300% probably means (without having examined Shamus's links) up from 2 to 8 in a year (that is of course a morning's "work" in the barrio of LA or in NYC). I think I'll take the no guns, thanks. And, I don't need a gun to feel safe. When I leave the home for a short period, I often leave the door unlocked, garage door up (with my car in plain view - also unlocked). I'm pretty sure you can't do that in "the safer society" where "citizens" have guns. Regards
Shamus_McFartfinger Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 Unfortunately, Shamus, they are but the bare truth. People I've known who've been to Austrailia tell me that thugs simply walk into stores and steal what they like knowning that the shop owners are powerless to stop them. I hope you?re joking as this sounds like the sort of garbage that a ten year old would regurgitate, not something I?d expect from an intelligent, mature adult with the ability to draw conclusions based on research. I live in Australia. Would I not be more qualified than your friends to have an opinion on this? Secondly, in a single stroke you have painted all Australian towns and cities as equally dangerous which is ridiculous. You are comparing places like Cabramatta in Sydney (one of the most violent places in Australia) to the suburb in which I live in Brisbane (which is not). Would you say that Backwater, Arkansas is just as dangerous as Detroit because they are both in the USA? Even my airhead of a niece wouldn?t swallow that tripe. Supporting the right to bear arms is nothing more than protecting the right to self defense.2,000,000 times are a year Americans defend themselves with firearms, mostly handguns. Ah yes. Instead of people beating the crap out each other to settle disputes, they shoot each other instead. A brilliant concept.While the massacre at Dunblane was horrible, the banning of handguns was an even greater tragedy. Far more Britons have been victims of crime as a result. To repeat: Britain now has a higher rate of violent crime than the US (where violent crimes have been declining for the last 10 years). Any supporting evidence to back this up?
blutach Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 I gotta say pain_man, re your idea of daylight robbery here, your source musta been on the sauce - big time. Regards
lfcrule1972 Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 Well as much as I didn't want to really get into this I can't find anything to back up PM's claims..... I came across the link that Defen found as well, seems more likely to be accurate than "a bloke down the pub said" etc. The problem with these things is that a lot of non factual stuff seems to get regurgitated as fact if its repeated enough.
blutach Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 Depends if you like guns and that fuckwit (the late) Charlton Heston or not LFC. Personally, I think the existence of guns is abominable - other than for sporting shooters, whose skills I greatly admire. However, in 99% of cases their use is to destroy life. They were invented to kill, not protect. Governments loved them and so did the companies who grew rich selling ever more sophisticated weapons to governments. Disgusting. Regards
Shamus_McFartfinger Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 No arguements here. What should scare the piss out of those living in ?The land of the free", would be an understanding of who is allowed (by law) to carry a firearm. If the same laws applied in apparent third world countries, like Australia, I?d be shitting broken glass. For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_control_i...ates_(by_state) Oregon Oregon is a shall-issue concealed pistol license state, and is notable for having very few restrictions on where a concealed firearm may be carried. For example, Oregon is one of the few states where a concealed handgun may be carried in any public school. Oregon has statewide preemption for its firearm laws. There is an ongoing battle between some localities and the state, with localities, particularly in Multnomah county, trying to supersede state preemption and restrict concealed weapon carry in certain places not restricted by the state. A good source for information on this and other interesting issues Oregon Firearms Federation homepage. http://oregonfirearms.org/ You can (by law) walk into a public school in Oregon with a concealed firearm? How fucking clever is that? ?Oh but our forefathers granted us the right to bear arms in The Constitution. It?s our right!? It may be your right but it?s still fucking stupid.
jack Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 A few years ago there was a shooting in the town I live in, a small market town with a population of a couple of thousand. Three postal inspectors visited a local postmans house investigating undelivered mail, he opened the door and shot one dead and left the another fighting for his life, fortunatley he survived. The postie who pulled the trigger was a respected and well liked member of the local gun club, when police searched his house they found a number of unregistered guns that had been illegally obtained through other members of his gun club. He joined the gun club because he was genuinly intrested in range and clay pigeon shooting, all pretty harmless but it can and does lead to more unsavoury and deadly intrests. This guy had a couple of semi-automatic weapons in his house! All this happened in front of my seven year old nephew who was riding up and down the pavement(Sidewalk) on his bicycle. If it wasnt for the amazing courage of two people just walking past and the third postal inspector who jumped the guy while he was trying to reload and kicked fuck out of him I dread to think what would have happened to my nephew. This lunatic was ready to shoot anybody who got in his way and all this started because because he fancied having a go at shooting on a range a few years earlier. If he hadnt have had those guns he would not have created another widow and two more orphans, the gun he used to kill was legally registered and licenced. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/144514.stm
blutach Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 Quad erat demonstrandum By the way - where the fuck's Ellesmere???? Regards
cornholio7 Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?cli...0000&addr1= he's almost a taffy
jack Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 Thats the place! And I am a mongrel! Half Welsh, half English!
Shamus_McFartfinger Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 A few years ago there was a shooting in the town I live in, a small market town with a population of a couple of thousand. Three postal inspectors visited a local postmans house investigating undelivered mail, he opened the door and shot one dead and left the another fighting for his life, fortunatley he survived. The postie who pulled http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/144514.stm Imagine, if you will, this same situation had the gunman not been allowed to arm himself in the first place. Regardless of the hype, rhetoric and bullshit associated with the pro-gun movement, you'll not be able to convince me that firearms should be the province of any idiot who passes a dodgy exam and a criminal record check.
jack Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 A few years ago there was a shooting in the town I live in, a small market town with a population of a couple of thousand. Three postal inspectors visited a local postmans house investigating undelivered mail, he opened the door and shot one dead and left the another fighting for his life, fortunatley he survived. The postie who pulled http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/144514.stm Imagine, if you will, this same situation had the gunman not been allowed to arm himself in the first place. Regardless of the hype, rhetoric and bullshit associated with the pro-gun movement, you'll not be able to convince me that firearms should be the province of any idiot who passes a dodgy exam and a criminal record check. I'm with you all the way on that. It's funny how many people came out of the woodwork afterwards to say how weird he was at school and that they couldnt belive that he was allowed guns. Police checks mean nothing, seems like the guy was a weirdo and always had been but there was no way of the police knowing this so he was granted a licence.
lfcrule1972 Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 Thats the place! And I am a mongrel! Half Welsh, half English! Wenglish? Almost Shamus - we call them "Bastards"
jack Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 Thats the place! And I am a mongrel! Half Welsh, half English! Wenglish? Almost Shamus - we call them "Bastards" Mr bastard to you, you scouse git!!
Movie Junkie Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 Oh but our forefathers granted us the right to bear arms in The Constitution. It?s our right!? It may be your right but it?s still fucking stupid. You'll get no argument from me on that. The problem is that different people interpret the Constitution differently, especially when it comes to firearms. Just as people interpret stats to suit their arguments they do the same thing with the Constitution. I personally believe that the "right to bear arms" was meant for our armed forces and not the general public. Others don't see it that way.
polopony Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 with half a brain and some really common items ie car antenna ,oldstyle bottle/can opener, tape and rubberbands and a block of wood you can make a gun ,or is it preferable to do the lock in the sock a rock, machete, baseball bat,tree branch and a million other things .If someone is out to really hurt you can you stop them when they dont care what happens to themselves (you can read suicide bombers here ) theres no way short of killing that person to protect yourself
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now