BD-RE Initialise Spare Area Exhaustion Failure Prediction Threshold Exceeded

[guys]

I've been using ImgBurn for many years and it's a great program. And I do not think it is at fault here in any way. But I'd really appreciate any help and advice others may be able to give me.

 

My main system has an LG BH16NS40 BluRay Rewriter. I use it to write backups to BD-RE. Single layer Verbatim 2x media. Operating System is Linux Mint 17.3 with Wine v1.6.2. I also use Windows 8.1 occasionally (dual boot). There have been zero issues over the last two and a half years.

 

I have a second PC with an identical Linux/WINE software setup. A few days ago I bought an LG BH16NS55 BluRay Rewriter for it. I also bought another pile of Verbatim BD-RE SL 2x media.

 

I found that when I did my normal Full Format (WITH Spare Areas), on rather more than 50% of the discs the format fails while still in the drive's internal phase ie before ImgBurn starts zeroing sectors. Here's a typical log (note I hit F8 a couple of times to see what was going on).

 

I 09:17:07 ImgBurn Version 2.5.8.0 started!
I 09:17:07 Microsoft Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600 : Service Pack 3) (Wine v1.6.2)
I 09:17:07 Total Physical Memory: 4,047,452 KiB  -  Available: 3,537,472 KiB
I 09:17:07 Initialising ASPI...
I 09:17:07 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...
I 09:17:07 -> Drive 1 - Info: HL-DT-ST BD-RE  BH16NS55 1.02
I 09:17:07 -> Drive 2 - Info: MATSHITA DVD-RAM SW-9574S A100
I 09:17:07 -> Drive 3 - Info: TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-S223Q SB00
I 09:17:07 -> Drive 4 - Info: MATSHITA DVD-RAM SW-9574S A100
I 09:17:07 Found 3 DVD±RW/RAMs and 1 BD-RE XL!
I 09:18:32 Operation Started!
I 09:18:32 Device: [0:0:0] HL-DT-ST BD-RE  BH16NS55 1.02
I 09:18:32 Media Type: BD-RE (Disc ID: CMCMAG-CN2-000)
I 09:18:32 Media Supported Write Speeds: 2x
I 09:18:32 Quick Erase: No
I 09:18:32 Format Properly: Yes
I 09:18:32 Format Size: Preferred
I 09:18:32 Format With Full Certification: Yes
I 09:18:32 Format Without Spare Areas: No
I 09:18:32 Erasing Disc...
W 09:22:54 I/O Interface 'Debug Mode' has been Enabled!
I 09:22:54 [0:0:0] HL-DT-ST BD-RE  BH16NS55 1.02
I 09:22:54 CDB: 00 00 00 00 00 00
I 09:22:54 CDB Interpretation: Test Unit Ready
E 09:22:54 SENSE: 70 00 02 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 04 04 00 80 00 00
E 09:22:54 SENSE SK Interpretation: Not Ready
E 09:22:54 SENSE ASC/ASCQ Interpretation: Logical Unit not ready, Format in progress - 0%
I 09:22:55 [0:0:0] HL-DT-ST BD-RE  BH16NS55 1.02
I 09:22:55 CDB: 00 00 00 00 00 00
I 09:22:55 CDB Interpretation: Test Unit Ready
E 09:22:55 SENSE: 70 00 02 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 04 04 00 80 00 00
E 09:22:55 SENSE SK Interpretation: Not Ready
E 09:22:55 SENSE ASC/ASCQ Interpretation: Logical Unit not ready, Format in progress - 0%
W 09:22:56 I/O Interface 'Debug Mode' has been Disabled!
W 09:23:19 Potential 'WaitImmediateIO' Deferred Error - (0%, 0/4) - Spare Area Exhaustion Failure Prediction Threshold Exceeded
E 09:23:21 Failed to Erase Disc! - Reason: Spare Area Exhaustion Failure Prediction Threshold Exceeded
E 09:23:21 Operation Failed! - Duration: 00:04:49

 

I then carried the same disc back to the other PC and repeated the exercise - completely successfully - here's the log - again I hit F8 a couple of times which gives the extra logging inside the Debug Enabled/Disabled pairs.

 

I 09:45:44 ImgBurn Version 2.5.8.0 started!
I 09:45:44 Microsoft Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600 : Service Pack 3) (Wine v1.6.2)
I 09:45:44 Total Physical Memory: 16,367,932 KiB  -  Available: 15,707,972 KiB
I 09:45:44 Initialising ASPI...
I 09:45:44 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...
I 09:45:44 -> Drive 1 - Info: TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-224DB SB01
I 09:45:44 -> Drive 2 - Info: HL-DT-ST BD-RE  BH16NS40 1.01-A1
I 09:45:44 Found 1 DVD±RW/RAM and 1 BD-RE XL!
I 09:46:58 Operation Started!
I 09:46:58 Device: [5:0:0] HL-DT-ST BD-RE  BH16NS40 1.01
I 09:46:58 Media Type: BD-RE (Disc ID: CMCMAG-CN2-000)
I 09:46:58 Media Supported Write Speeds: 2x
I 09:46:58 Quick Erase: No
I 09:46:58 Format Properly: Yes
I 09:46:58 Format Size: Preferred
I 09:46:58 Format With Full Certification: Yes
I 09:46:58 Format Without Spare Areas: No
I 09:46:58 Erasing Disc...
W 09:46:58 FormatDisc(FT: 0x30, FST: 0x03) Not Supported!
W 10:33:56 I/O Interface 'Debug Mode' has been Enabled!
I 10:33:57 [5:0:0] HL-DT-ST BD-RE  BH16NS40 1.01
I 10:33:57 CDB: 00 00 00 00 00 00
I 10:33:57 CDB Interpretation: Test Unit Ready
E 10:33:57 SENSE: 71 00 02 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 04 04 00 80 00 00
E 10:33:57 SENSE SK Interpretation: Not Ready
E 10:33:57 SENSE ASC/ASCQ Interpretation: Logical Unit not ready, Format in progress - 0%
I 10:33:58 [5:0:0] HL-DT-ST BD-RE  BH16NS40 1.01
I 10:33:58 CDB: 00 00 00 00 00 00
I 10:33:58 CDB Interpretation: Test Unit Ready
E 10:33:58 SENSE: 71 00 02 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 04 04 00 80 00 00
E 10:33:58 SENSE SK Interpretation: Not Ready
E 10:33:58 SENSE ASC/ASCQ Interpretation: Logical Unit not ready, Format in progress - 0%
W 10:33:58 I/O Interface 'Debug Mode' has been Disabled!
I 10:49:38 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 01:02:39
I 10:49:38 Operation Started!
I 10:49:38 Device: [5:0:0] HL-DT-ST BD-RE  BH16NS40 1.01
I 10:49:38 Media Type: BD-RE (Disc ID: CMCMAG-CN2-000)
I 10:49:38 Media Supported Write Speeds: 2x
I 10:49:38 Media Sectors: 11,826,176
I 10:49:38 BD-RE FastWrite: Yes
I 10:49:38 Zeroing Sectors...
I 11:34:18 Synchronising Cache...
I 11:34:18 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:44:39 - Total Duration: 01:47:19
I 11:34:18 Average Write Rate: 8,828 KiB/s (2.0x)

 

Just in case the new Verbatim media might be marginal, I still had a few unopened (still in shrink wrap) discs from my original Verbatim batch of over two years ago. So I repeated the exercise with one of these and it was the same - failed on the BH16NS55, worked on the BH16NS40.

 

Not every disc has failed on the BH16NS55 but rather more than half have.

 

My inclination is to return the drive to Amazon as faulty (well it's not fit for my purpose and the manual says it supports Verbatim BD-RE SL 2x media) and claim a refund. Assuming I can do that, I then need to choose another drive. I wonder if LG are trying to support so many more exotic types of BD disc nowadays that their firmware is not so good with simple old 2x BD-RE-SL. As my good LG drive is getting on for three years old, I don't suppose I'm going to find another with the same firmware. So I wonder if perhaps a Pioneer 209 might be a better bet.

Many thanks for reading this, and even more thanks if you can reply!
 

 

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Your ns40 doesn't support the same format as the ns55. The ns55 can do the 'full certification' and is detecting an issue that maybe your other drive can't?

 

Btw, your verbatim discs have the wrong MID. Yours are CMC.

[guys]

Many thanks for the quick reply. I believe Verbatim do farm out some of their BD-RE production to CMC. The ones I bought over two years ago were from Currys and were in a box containing 20 discs each in a shink wrapped slim CD jewel case. The recent ones were from Amazon and in boxes of 5 with each disc in a shing wrapped full width CD jewel case. Both suppliers are reputable so it's unlikely the discs are fakes but as you say they are not actually manufactured by Verbatim. How could one tell before purchasing though?

 

On the drives' internal certification what I am seeing is that the NS55 typically fails after about 5 minutes. The same disc always succeeds on the NS40 but here the internal certification always takes about 63 minutes. Is that definitely a lesser full certification than the NS55 is attempting (and failing on)?

 

Thanks again

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Ah there's actually something a bit funny going on here.

 

The bit I was referring to in the log is this bit...

 

I 09:46:58 Operation Started!

I 09:46:58 Device: [5:0:0] HL-DT-ST BD-RE BH16NS40 1.01

I 09:46:58 Media Type: BD-RE (Disc ID: CMCMAG-CN2-000)

I 09:46:58 Media Supported Write Speeds: 2x

I 09:46:58 Quick Erase: No

I 09:46:58 Format Properly: Yes

I 09:46:58 Format Size: Preferred

I 09:46:58 Format With Full Certification: Yes

I 09:46:58 Format Without Spare Areas: No

I 09:46:58 Erasing Disc...

W 09:46:58 FormatDisc(FT: 0x30, FST: 0x03) Not Supported!

When I first saw your log, I wasn't near my computer and the exact meaning behind the values of FST escaped me. I figured it meant 'Full Certification' and the program was then falling back to 'Quick' or 'No' certification. It turns outs that 0x03 actually means 'Quick Certification' and that's then made me think something isn't quite right there as it shouldn't be attempting to perform 'Quick Certification', it should be doing 'Full Certification'.

 

So I fired up the development environment to see what's happening and notice there's a workaround in place for LG drives in the WH1x and BH1x ranges. The workaround makes the program perform a full format with quick certification before then doing another one with full certification. Without that, the full format with full certification didn't seem to 'take' and the disc probably came out looking as if it hadn't ever been formatted. From what I can tell, the workaround was added back in 2010 for the BH10 and maybe BH12 models, but was set up to be future proof and work with any in the '10' range - so it's also being applied to BH14 and BH16 models that came out later on. Since then of course, LG have taken to using a different chipset for the BH14 and BD16 drives and these don't need the workaround anyway I expect.

 

I will now adjust my workaround so it only applies to the 10 and 12 models.

 

All that is of course beside the point!

 

Your BH16NS55 seems to be having trouble with the disc and is remapping loads of duff sectors into the 'spare area' - only there are too many and the spare area has been exhausted. Additional format attempts might help matters, as might formatting on the NS40 before trying again on the NS55. It's unfortunate that the NS55 can't handle the CMC discs like your NS40 can, but that doesn't necessarily mean there's anything wrong with it. It could be better than the NS40 on all other media The Pioneer 209 is a good alternative, so yeah, try giving one of those a go.

 

Oh and I never meant to say your discs were fake, they just aren't what I call 'true' Verbatims

[dbminter]

Verbatim does farm out to CMC for it's BD-RE SL now.  I have physically verified this, too.  The good news is CMC apparently doesn't do BD-RE DL or Verbatim would farm those out to them, too.

 

 

Unfortunately, LG doesn't really support its firmware at all anymore.  The last model they released hasn't had a firmware update in over 2 years.  And it needs one.  It's borked on Verbatim BD-RE DL inkjet printable discs, but is fine on the same Disc ID for Verbatim branded BD-RE DL.  Pioneer had the same problem with Verbatim DVD+R DL.  A firmware update finally fixed the issue.  WHY the same Disc ID discs and the ONLY difference is the LABEL surface should matter is beyond me! 

[guys]

I noticed that the FormatDisc(FT: 0x30, FST: 0x03) Not Supported! message did not occur on the initial failing format on the NS55. It only happened when I attempted (successfully) to reformat the disc on the NS40. I looked at another pair of logs and it was the same. I don't recollect ever seeing this message before the current episode.

 

So next I took a brand new disc (from my earlier stock but that's not significant I think) and formatted it on the NS40 (without involving the NS55 first).

 

As I rather expected there was no 0x03 message. On the basis of an admittedly smallish sample it does appear that the 0x03 message only occurs when a disc has first been formatted on the NS55 but has failed and then the format is retried on the NS40. Which suggests that the NS55 leaves the disc in a state somewhat different from a virgin disc - well one would expect that of course - and somehow this results in the 0x03 response on the NS40. Here's the log of this latest run on the NS40.

 

I 17:06:47 ImgBurn Version 2.5.8.0 started!
I 17:06:47 Microsoft Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600 : Service Pack 3) (Wine v1.6.2)
I 17:06:47 Total Physical Memory: 16,367,932 KiB  -  Available: 14,831,240 KiB
I 17:06:47 Initialising ASPI...
I 17:06:47 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...
I 17:06:47 -> Drive 1 - Info: TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-224DB SB01
I 17:06:47 -> Drive 2 - Info: HL-DT-ST BD-RE  BH16NS40 1.01-A1
I 17:06:48 Found 1 DVD±RW/RAM and 1 BD-RE XL!
I 17:07:21 Operation Started!
I 17:07:21 Device: [5:0:0] HL-DT-ST BD-RE  BH16NS40 1.01
I 17:07:21 Media Type: BD-RE (Disc ID: CMCMAG-CN2-000)
I 17:07:21 Media Supported Write Speeds: 2x
I 17:07:21 Quick Erase: No
I 17:07:21 Format Properly: Yes
I 17:07:21 Format Size: Preferred
I 17:07:21 Format With Full Certification: Yes
I 17:07:21 Format Without Spare Areas: No
I 17:07:21 Erasing Disc...
I 18:10:15 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 01:02:53
I 18:10:15 Operation Started!
I 18:10:15 Device: [5:0:0] HL-DT-ST BD-RE  BH16NS40 1.01
I 18:10:15 Media Type: BD-RE (Disc ID: CMCMAG-CN2-000)
I 18:10:15 Media Supported Write Speeds: 2x
I 18:10:15 Media Sectors: 11,826,176
I 18:10:15 BD-RE FastWrite: Yes
I 18:10:15 Zeroing Sectors...
I 18:54:54 Synchronising Cache...
I 18:54:55 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:44:39 - Total Duration: 01:47:33
I 18:54:55 Average Write Rate: 8,828 KiB/s (2.0x)

 

I've done an online return with Amazon for the NS55 and have packaged it all up for delivery to a collection point tomorrow morning. I will look around for a 209 shortly.

 

Many thanks for all your help and I hope the above feedback may be of some interest even if not terribly useful!

[dbminter]

That unsupported format command, I would think, shouldn't have any bearing on the issue.  It's unsupported on that drive so it was never executed.  Therefore, it never did anything to the disc.  If I remember correctly, that error means a "verify" of the format isn't performed on the disc.  All of my Blu-Ray burners, LG, ASUS, Pioneer, and the one LiteOn that I had all didn't support that command.  I've actually never seen a drive that performed it.

[guys]

Well I must bow to your superior knowledge on this. But I'm still a bit baffled. Lightning UK said that his code workaround first does a full format with Quick certification followed by a full format with Full certification. And the W FormatDisc(FT: 0x30, FST: 0x03) Not Supported! has only ever been seen (by me) on the NS40 in the precise circumstance of trying to full format a disc which has failed full formatting on the NS55. Normally the NS40 never gets the warning. Yet it's (presumably) the same bit of code in ImgBurn driving the operation each time.

 

I wonder if the following might be a plausible explanation of this behaviour. When the format fails on the NS55 because it thinks all the spare area is going to be used up, perhaps it leaves a marker on the disc. The purpose of the marker is to warn any subsequent attempt to format the disc that this format failed and that the spare area is compromised so only a Full certification subsequent format is acceptable. So when the NS40 sees such a disc it recognises this flag and fails ImgBurn's initial request for a full format with Quick certification but accepts its second request for a full format with Full certification. With an untainted disc, both ImgBurn's Quick certification and Full certification full format requests are accepted and so no error message is seen.

 

Unfortunately I've packed the NS55 away for return. Otherwise I would try a repeat of a failed format on it rather than immediately transferring the disc to the NS40. If such a repeat resulted in the same warning it would be interesting. Of course the NS55 firmware might differ from the NS40 so it wouldn't really prove anything conclusively.

 

I'm new to this so the above may be complete garbage. In which case please go gently on me!

[LIGHTNING UK!]

It would be useful to see the disc info from the box on the right (in Write mode) when the NS40 does and doesn't error out as the program attempts that format with quick certification (FST 0x03).

 

Of course if you've packaged it up now, that won't be possible

 

Just something for me to remember to check next time I'm able to.

 

EDIT (because you just posted): I figured the NS40 would always produce that line on a brand new and uncertified disc. As you say then, it must be down to the state the NS55 leaves the disc in - this is where the disc info would come in really handy!

 

After ImgBurn has tried its workaround to do a full format with quick certification and it fails, it tries it again with no certification. Only after that does it do the full format with full certification like you've actually asked it to. I've actually swapped that round now too as it's pointless quick certifying if you're then going to full certify.

[dbminter]

Oh, don't worry, I won't be rough with you!    We were all newbies once, and I try to remember that.  As for bowing to my superior knowledge don't.    I've only been using BD media for like 5 years now, so I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable in that field as I am with DVD media, which I've been using for 15 now.  I only relate my experience and I always got what I think is that error.  May not have always been the same error, though.  I just know that all of the formats on my BD-RE in any drive have always produced an "error," and I believe it's the same one you got.  (It's not technically an error.  More like a notification.)

 

 

There's always the chance that formatting in that first drive you used didn't do it right.  That maybe it's dying/bad and isn't formatting correctly.  Because of that, that "error" is carrying over to the other drive.  I know some drives can completely bork a rewritable disc from being used at all after writing to them.  ASUS's latest internal BD model totally destroyed the DVD+RW and BD-RE I threw at it.  And it did this on 2 models I tested, so it's an inherent design flaw in the drive.

[guys]

I know some drives can completely bork a rewritable disc from being used at all after writing to them.

 

Yes, that was why having had the failures on the NS55 I immediately reformatted the discs on the NS40. The message said that it predicted the spare area would be all used up. I was worried that to just keep on trying on the NS55 might fatally compromise the disc so I wanted to rescue it ASAP.

 

I guess I've been fairly lucky with my drive/media compatibility in the past. I bought a good stock of Taiyo Yuden CD-Rs and DVD-Rs but I've also used Verbatim CD-R and DVD-R without issue. Also TDK DVD+R DL. No coasters. The only other problem I've ever had also was with Verbatim discs - DVD-RAM 5X which worked for a few months and then progressively went bad. Oh well, their slim line cases came in handy!

 

Anyway thanks to both of you for all your help. I've certainly learned something. I'm currently trying to understand the differences between the Pioneer BDR-209DBK and the BDR-209EBK. I would have assumed the EBK was "better" in terms of what it supports but some web sites seem to suggest it's the other way round.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

The EBK supports BDXL media and the DBK doesn't. So technically, the EBK is superior.

 

The firmware for both drives always seems to come out at the same time and they're both at the same version, so I can't really see media support being better on one than the other - that's to say they each have *some* level of support for the same MIDs.

 

Of course if the optics are different (in order to support BDXL), I guess it's entirely possible the fine tuning for specific MIDs (equalling better burn quality) is better on one than the other. Different drives of the same model can perform differently though, so it's not always easy to judge such things.

[dbminter]

Sometimes, a drive write can completely destroy the disc so much it CAN'T even be recognized as being inserted.  So, a full format isn't even possible.  That's the issue with the ASUS.

 

 

The current EBK firmware does have a bork in it.  Pioneer borked the writing to Ritek 8x DVD+RW.  They always fail at the Verify stage.  Even writing to the discs in other drives always fails on Verify or on playback UNLESS you fully format them in another drive.  This may be the case with any DVD+RW or rewritable DVD in general.  Maybe even rewritable media in general.  Haven't tested it thoroughly yet.  There hasn't been a firmware update to the Pioneer SATA drives since May.  And they may have simply stopped support on new firmwares altogther.

[guys]

Different drives of the same model can perform differently though, so it's not always easy to judge such things.

 

I did wonder if it might be the case that another example of an NS55 might be perfectly OK. Might even be that the one I received had a weak laser or some other issue. But it would be embarrassing to ask for a same model replacement and find it was no better - I don't want Amazon blacklisting me for too many returns!

 

I'll step back from this for a day or two (other things to catch up on!) but I'll try to decide between the 209-DBK and the 209-EBK. I guess it could be that the extra complexity of the optics for the EBK (for TL & QL) might conceivably mean it is worse with "low tech" discs such as BD-RE SL. Indeed that might be why my NS55 performed so much worse than my NS40 as the NS40 does not support TL/QL whereas the NS55 does. OTOH as the EBK is the superior model and there seems to be little price differential between it and the DBK, that points in favour of the EBK.

 

Once I get a new drive I'll reformat (full) the discs that failed on the NS55 and post back with the results.

 

Thanks again

[guys]

I've now acquired a Pioneer 209-EBK drive. It has performed flawlessly so I am happy. Its firmware (v1.30) is behind the leading edge (v1.34) but to flash the drive to that latest version is a one-way trip according to the manufacturer's web site - there is no way back. So, as it ain't broke I can resist any temptation in that direction.

 

I first tried doing a full initialise on a couple of the Verbatim BD-REs which had failed on the LG NS55 but had been "rescued" on the LG NS40. Interestingly the Pioneer drive only takes 25 seconds to complete this so it must be executing little more than a cursory glance at the disc. Both runs were identical so I will just include one :-

 

I 16:48:54 ImgBurn Version 2.5.8.0 started!
I 16:48:54 Microsoft Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600 : Service Pack 3) (Wine v1.6.2)
I 16:48:54 Total Physical Memory: 4,047,452 KiB  -  Available: 3,350,864 KiB
I 16:48:54 Initialising ASPI...
I 16:48:54 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...
I 16:48:55 -> Drive 1 - Info: PIONEER BD-RW   BDR-209M 1.30-ID60
I 16:48:55 -> Drive 2 - Info: MATSHITA DVD-RAM SW-9574S A100
I 16:48:55 -> Drive 3 - Info: TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-S223Q SB00
I 16:48:55 -> Drive 4 - Info: MATSHITA DVD-RAM SW-9574S A100
I 16:48:55 Found 3 DVD±RW/RAMs and 1 BD-RE XL!
I 16:51:01 Operation Started!
I 16:51:01 Device: [0:0:0] PIONEER BD-RW   BDR-209M 1.30
I 16:51:01 Media Type: BD-RE (Disc ID: CMCMAG-CN2-000)
I 16:51:01 Media Supported Write Speeds: 2x
I 16:51:01 Quick Erase: No
I 16:51:01 Format Properly: Yes
I 16:51:01 Format Size: Preferred
I 16:51:01 Format With Full Certification: Yes
I 16:51:01 Format Without Spare Areas: No
I 16:51:01 Erasing Disc...
W 16:51:01 FormatDisc(FT: 0x30, FST: 0x02) Not Supported!
W 16:51:01 FormatDisc(FT: 0x30, FST: 0x03) Not Supported!
I 16:51:26 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:00:25
I 16:51:26 Operation Started!
I 16:51:26 Device: [0:0:0] PIONEER BD-RW   BDR-209M 1.30
I 16:51:26 Media Type: BD-RE (Disc ID: CMCMAG-CN2-000)
I 16:51:26 Media Supported Write Speeds: 2x
I 16:51:26 Media Sectors: 11,826,176
I 16:51:26 BD-RE FastWrite: Yes
I 16:51:26 Zeroing Sectors...
I 17:36:38 Synchronising Cache...
I 17:36:38 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:45:11 - Total Duration: 00:45:37
I 17:36:38 Average Write Rate: 8,724 KiB/s (2.0x)

 

I also tried a full intialise on a virgin Verbatim BD-RE just out of shrinkwrap. Here the Pioneer took slightly longer - 34 seconds - presumably because it had to set up the spare areas.

 

I 18:39:53 ImgBurn Version 2.5.8.0 started!
I 18:39:53 Microsoft Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600 : Service Pack 3) (Wine v1.6.2)
I 18:39:53 Total Physical Memory: 4,047,452 KiB  -  Available: 3,253,060 KiB
I 18:39:54 Initialising ASPI...
I 18:39:54 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...
I 18:39:54 -> Drive 1 - Info: PIONEER BD-RW   BDR-209M 1.30-ID60
I 18:39:54 -> Drive 2 - Info: MATSHITA DVD-RAM SW-9574S A100
I 18:39:54 -> Drive 3 - Info: TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-S223Q SB00
I 18:39:54 -> Drive 4 - Info: MATSHITA DVD-RAM SW-9574S A100
I 18:39:54 Found 3 DVD±RW/RAMs and 1 BD-RE XL!
I 18:42:05 Operation Started!
I 18:42:05 Device: [0:0:0] PIONEER BD-RW   BDR-209M 1.30
I 18:42:05 Media Type: BD-RE (Disc ID: CMCMAG-CN2-000)
I 18:42:05 Media Supported Write Speeds: 2x
I 18:42:05 Quick Erase: No
I 18:42:05 Format Properly: Yes
I 18:42:05 Format Size: Preferred
I 18:42:05 Format With Full Certification: Yes
I 18:42:05 Format Without Spare Areas: No
I 18:42:05 Erasing Disc...
W 18:42:05 FormatDisc(FT: 0x30, FST: 0x02) Not Supported!
W 18:42:05 FormatDisc(FT: 0x30, FST: 0x03) Not Supported!
I 18:42:40 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:00:34
I 18:42:40 Operation Started!
I 18:42:40 Device: [0:0:0] PIONEER BD-RW   BDR-209M 1.30
I 18:42:40 Media Type: BD-RE (Disc ID: CMCMAG-CN2-000)
I 18:42:40 Media Supported Write Speeds: 2x
I 18:42:40 Media Sectors: 11,826,176
I 18:42:40 BD-RE FastWrite: Yes
I 18:42:40 Zeroing Sectors...
I 19:27:54 Synchronising Cache...
I 19:27:54 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:45:14 - Total Duration: 00:45:48
I 19:27:54 Average Write Rate: 8,714 KiB/s (2.0x)

 

Here's the content of the right hand window with the disc fresh out of its shrinkwrap :-

 

PIONEER BD-RW   BDR-209M 1.30
Current Profile: BD-RE

Disc Information:
Status: Empty
State of Last Session: Empty
Erasable: Yes
MID: CMCMAG-CN2-000
Supported Read Speeds: 10x
Current Read Speed: 4.1x - 10x

BD Disc Information:
Disc ID: CMCMAG-CN2-000
Disc Type: BD-RE
Disc Size: 120 mm
Disc Class: 0
Disc Version: 2
Number of Layers: 1
Layer Type: Rewritable
DVD Layer Present: No
CD Layer Present: No
Channel Bit Length: 74.50 nm (25 GB Per Layer)
BCA Present: Yes
Maximum Transfer Rate: Not Specified
First PAA of Data Zone: 131,072
Last PAA of Data Zone: 1,658,494

 

and here it is immediately after the full format :-

 

PIONEER BD-RW   BDR-209M 1.30
Current Profile: BD-RE

Disc Information:
Status: Complete
State of Last Session: Complete
Erasable: Yes
Sessions: 1
Sectors: 11,826,176
Size: 24,220,008,448 bytes
Time: 2628:04:26 (MM:SS:FF)
MID: CMCMAG-CN2-000
Supported Read Speeds: 10x
Current Read Speed: 4.1x - 10x

TOC Information:
Session 1... (LBA: 0)
-> Track 01  (Mode 1, LBA: 0 - 11826175)
-> LeadOut  (LBA: 11826176)

Disc Definition Structure:
ISA0 Size: 4,096 clustors - Full: No
OSA0 Size: 8,192 clustors - Full: No
Certified: No
Scanned: No

BD Disc Information:
Disc ID: CMCMAG-CN2-000
Disc Type: BD-RE
Disc Size: 120 mm
Disc Class: 0
Disc Version: 2
Number of Layers: 1
Layer Type: Rewritable
DVD Layer Present: No
CD Layer Present: No
Channel Bit Length: 74.50 nm (25 GB Per Layer)
BCA Present: Yes
Maximum Transfer Rate: Not Specified
First PAA of Data Zone: 131,072
Last PAA of Data Zone: 1,658,494

 

We can see that the drive has set the spare areas up but has not checked them.

 

Incidentally one other small difference between the Pioneer and the LG NS40 drives is that we see :-

 

W 18:42:05 FormatDisc(FT: 0x30, FST: 0x02) Not Supported!
W 18:42:05 FormatDisc(FT: 0x30, FST: 0x03) Not Supported!

 

with the Pioneer as opposed to just :-

W 09:46:58 FormatDisc(FT: 0x30, FST: 0x03) Not Supported!

 

with the LG NS40.

[dbminter]

The 1.34 firmware is borked, so don't update to that.  It doesn't write properly to Ritek 8x DVD+RW.  If it does write to them, you must fully format the disc again in another drive before they can become useful again.  1.33 is safe as far as my use has shown.  It's not a one way trip like Pioneer says.  It's just not possible with anything Pioneer gives you.  I used a tool designed to regress firmwares and it worked fine.

 

 

That unsupported format command has appeared in all BD burners I've ever used.  Apparently, all it does is a verify of each write command to the disc as it performs it.  This effectively doubles the amount of time it takes to format the disc.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

That's what spare areas do DB, it's not related to certifying the disc during the format - which is performed internally by the drive.

[dbminter]

Oh, that was the spare areas command that wasn't supported?

 

 

I just know that supposedly there's a command that can double the amount of time it takes to format a BD-RE.    And I've never seen that command ever successfully carried out on any BD drive I've ever owned.

 

 

Yeah, my knowledge of Blu-Ray is nowhere near as extensive as DVD.    I've only been using BD 5 years, anyway, versus 15 for DVD. 

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Spare areas are what doubles the amount of time it takes to burn a disc.

 

When present, the drive's 'defect management' feature is activated and automatically verifies that each 'write' command is successful and will remap bad blocks into the spare area zone.

 

The failed format attempts are where the program asks the drive to format with full certification, quick certification, no certification etc.

As it's only taking 25 seconds obviously it isn't doing full certification I will add some additional logging entries so that's made a bit clearer.

[guys]

I've tended to always initially format my BD-RE discs with spare areas as the loss of useable capacity hasn't been an issue. I felt that this might be useful to catch any bad sectors initially. 

 

But I normally burn them with the BD-RE FastWrite option enabled and then verify with ImgBurn's built in verification option. Does wtiting in that fast mode mean that any redirects set up from bad sectors to previously allocated spare sectors will be ignored?

 

As I am not getting verify errors is it possible that all my BD-RE media (Verbatim) is flawless? I used to find that even decent quality cartridge DVD-RAM media was not perfect.

 

It's interesting that the LG drives (NS40 & 55) take over an hour to fully format a new BD-RE (before ImgBurn writes zeroes to every sector) whereas the Pioneer takes less than a minute. As you say, the Pioneer obviously isn't doing a full certification.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Yeah, fastwrite bypasses the automatic verification phase. Technically it's known as 'streaming' in the business and it's a method of writing that's designed to be used when you need to maintain a certain speed of writing and don't care too much about anything else.

 

So it's pointless having both spare areas and fastwrite enabled.

 

As you haven't had any verification errors, your discs are fine.

[guys]

Thanks very much for that clarification. I think that the time saved from writing at 2x and then verifying at ~ 6x speed as opposed to writing/verifying at 0.9x speed is worthwhile. If I get a disc fail I can always revert to the non streaming write mode.