Got these errors trying to burn to a 50gig Verbatim Disc

[dbminter]

Well, I'll be damned!  I tried an on the fly burn of a BD-50 contents (30 GB) in my LG with a Verbatim BD-RE DL and it successfully passed the Verify! 

 

 

Now, this could be a fluke.  I had 1 in 10 test burns of BD-RE DL in the LG that passed Verify, but the contents were corrupted on the disc.  I need to perform another test to make sure the contents are good.

 

 

LUK, my question here is: why would an on the fly write Verify pass but a Verify of an ISO with verifying against the contents in the ISO file fail?  And always at the layer break? 

[dbminter]

I wrote another set of data that was about 32 GB that I could perform a verify of the contents on in another application.  If it was going to fail at the layer change, this verify in the other application would fail to read the file.  The verify on all files across both layers ended correctly, so the data was written properly by ImgBurn when done on the fly and not a Verify against an ISO file's contents.

 

 

Next, just to see what kind of results I get, I'm going to use UltraISO to create a BD-50 image with the same contents as above.  These types of burns I always create with UltraISO but burn with ImgBurn in my Pioneer drive to Verbatim BD-RE DL because the Verifies always failed on the LG.  I'll use UltraISO or something else to burn the image in the LG drive to a Verbatim BD-RE DL.  Then, I'm going to use ImgBurn to perform a Verify of the contents it didn't burn against the ISO file it created.  See if that fails at the layer change.

 

 

If it doesn't fail at the layer change, then it would seem that, for whatever reason, the ISO files aren't being written correctly by ImgBurn to Verbatim BD-R DL and BD-RE DL at the layer change.

 

 

EDIT: Couldn't use UltraISO for burning.  I forgot that most of its features don't work right.  The only thing I've found it does right is that it will inject files properly into existing images, which is helpful for adding files to bootable images.  The only feature I use it for.  I've started the burn with Roxio NXT 4.

Edited December 15, 2017 by dbminter

[dbminter]

Well, this was illuminating.  After Roxio NXT 4 wrote the image, I did a verify of the contents in the other application.  The files passed verify on both layers.  So, I performed a manual Verify of the ISO that Roxio NXT 4 burned with ImgBurn, with verification against contents in the ISO file.  ImgBurn Verify passed! 

 

 

So, the inescapable conclusion is there's something going wrong when ImgBurn switches layers writing Verbatim BD DL media in an LG drive when it's burning an ISO file.  I can't see why that would happen, but it sure seems to be the case.  Verify doesn't fail when ImgBurn doesn't write the ISO.  ImgBurn Verifies pass when an on the fly write is performed on these media in an LG drive.  So, what could be going wrong with writing from an ISO file to a Verbatim BD DL disc in an LG drive with ImgBurn?

 

 

I realize ImgBurn only burns what it's given.  And it only sends commands to drives.  How the drive interprets those commands isn't up to ImgBurn, I know that.  But, what could be the cause in this case?    It is repeatable as I never burned anything but ISO's with ImgBurn in the LG before with Verbatim BD DL media.  And it happened on 2 different Dell machines, and the OP's machine.  And it happened on 2 different kinds of LG drives in my tests, with about 10 burns tested in the past.

 

 

My LG drive also fails when writing ISO's to Verbatim 6x DVD-RW.  I wonder if I repeated this test with Roxio NXT 4 as the writer of the image file in my LG and used ImgBurn to perform a Verify on it if it would pass?  Something to try if I can remember do it.

 

 

Another thing to ponder.  For a year, I've been saying Pioneer borked writing to Ritek 8x DVD+RW with its 1.34 firmware.  ImgBurn always failed Verify on them.  I think I'll try the Roxio NXT burn/ImgBurn manual Verify test in that scenario.  See if it's ONLY the firmware writing these discs that causes the problem.

 

 

So, it seems my initial advice I've been giving people over the years is incorrect.  LG drives apparently aren't lousy writers when it comes to Verbatim BD DL media.  They're just lousy at interpreting the commands ImgBurn sends them when it writes an ISO file to that media, it seems.

 

 

No, I can verify (HA!) that the firmware IS borked in the Pioneer.  Roxio NXT failed right at the start of Verify as did ImgBurn when Verifying the contents.

Edited December 15, 2017 by dbminter

[LIGHTNING UK!]

There is no difference between on the fly and writing an ISO.

 

It's all buffered internally and the same burning code does everything.

[dbminter]

That's what I would think.  But, you can't deny empirical results from 2 different users.  For whatever reason, burning from an ISO file to Verbatim BD-R DL and BD-RE DL in an LG drive with ImgBurn causes an error at the layer change.  I can't explain it but I can't deny it exists.

 

 

Actually, I shouldn't say that for sure without one other test.  Burning an ISO with ImgBurn in an LG and performing a manual Verify of the ISO on that disc in my Pioneer.  It may be an issue in the actual Verify on an LG versus the Write.  I would say it's more of an issue of the Write versus a Verify, though.

 

 

I will perform that test and post my results.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

I can continue to deny there's any difference... I have the code!

[dbminter]

Oh, trust me, I'm not denying there's any difference in the two implementations.    But, you can't deny the results, which are different.  Well, as I said, you can't deny the results until I finish this test and see if it's a Write or Verify issue.  It could be a Verify against the contents issue versus a Write issue.  Because there is no verify against the contents in an on the fly write as there's no image file to compare against.  However, since it always fails at the layer change, that's indicative of a Write issue.

 

 

What I'm doing now is a write of a 32 GB ISO of verifiable contents in another application that will spread across the 2 layers.  ImgBurn is writing this ISO to a Verbatim BD-RE DL in the LG.  It should fail Verify at the layer change.  And, I'm hoping it does.  What I don't want right now is a random Verify that succeeds.  Because I want to manually issue a Verify of the contents against the ISO in my Pioneer to see if it fails Verify.  If there's a Verify fail in the Pioneer at the layer change, it's a Write issue in the LG's.

 

 

As I said, whatever this issue is boils down to how LG is interpreting the commands sent by ImgBurn when burning the layer change.  The LG isn't handling them correctly.  Because at least one other application, Roxio NXT 4, does seem to be sending a different implementation of commands to the drive that the LG "likes" better than ImgBurn's.  As I also said, ImgBurn just sends write commands to the drive and it's up to the drive to interpret how those commands are received.  However, we have seen in the past cases where a "certain other 15 year old application" writes just weren't liked by some drives but tolerated by other application's writes.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

For the entire duration of the burn, the programs would only issue 'write (10)' or 'write (12)' commands. That's it.

[dbminter]

What's the difference between the two commands? 

 

 

Is one, like write(10), for writing to Layer 0 and the other for writing to Layer 1?  Probably not because what would then be the command to write Layer 2 or Layer 3 for BD TL and QL?

[dbminter]

Ah, the story of my damn life.  No wonder it's not worth living. 

 

 

Because I needed a failure, I got the one time out of 10 where Verifiy completed!    An hour and 25 minutes wasted.  And I'm not going to waste any more time on this.  I have a solution that works for me: not use ImgBurn to burn BD DL,media from ISO files in an LG drive and use my Pioneer to do that.

 

 

I will still perform the verify in Macrium Reflect on the contents because I believe the only time this worked before, Verify completed with no errors, but the contents were not verifiable in Reflect.

 

 

Unexpectedly, verify in Reflect passed with no errors.  So, it's a somewhat random issue, with more failures than successes.

 

 

Now, it could be I just got 3 random good results in a row.  However, I performed 2 on the fly writes and 1 Roxio write with no Verify errors in ImgBurn and 2 out of 3 ISO writes with Verify failures in ImgBurn.

Edited December 15, 2017 by dbminter

[LIGHTNING UK!]

10 and 12 are very similar. With 12, you've a couple of extra options you can toggle.

 

One is the 'streaming' bit, the other is the 'verify not required' bit.

 

Neither are anything to do with layers.

[dbminter]

I wonder if Roxio is doing writes with the bit set to verify not required.  That that is why it's not crapping out.  Although if it was a Write issue, it would still be bad data on the disc.  And my Reflect verify tests bear out that that is not the case.

 

 

Have to fault Roxio for one thing, though.  With my Pioneer Ritek 8x DVD+RW test, it encountered a Verify error, as I guessed it would.  Instead of reporting it to the user or cancelling the operation, the entire Roxio burning application just crashed!      I did an ImgBurn manual Verify and it crapped out right at the start of the Verify, like it always does on that media on the 1.34 Pioneer firmware.

[dbminter]

Well, looks like I never got a chance to test out the Verbatim 6x DVD-RW Roxio write test in the LG.  Roxio crapped out at the verify stage and when I tried to eject the disc with ImgBurn, it said a long write was in progress.  The drive light kept flashing, so it was caught in a loop.  Only thing for it was powering off the PC.  Inserting the disc in either my Pioneer or LG caused the drive light to flash infinitely, so the disc was borked.  It either had reached the natural end of its life just conveniently at the time I needed it for testing or Roxio NXT 4 destroyed it.  Either way, it's moot because that was the only Verbatim 6x DVD-RW I had.  At least, that I could find.

[dbminter]

Ah, NOW I see why LG released a firmware update for this drive after 3 years of inactivity.  It appears they were forced to.  This update apparently only patches some ability that the drive used to be able to rip UHD discs.  Yeah, don't do anything like fix incompatibility issues with media or anything like that. 

[dbminter]

Yeah, LG's are just at writing Verbatim BD DL media.  I did the Roxio test again in a real world application environment.  This time, Roxio wrote at less than 1x the entire time and the Macrium Reflect verified on a file on the disc on the first layer.  Which meant the drive did not write the disc correctly.

 

 

Just use Pioneers.  That will usually just solve the problem.

 

 

Actually, may have been the Verbatim BD-RE DL that went bad.  I put it in my Pioneer and it, too, was capped at 0.9x write speed.  I put in my newest BD-RE DL Verbatim of the same kind and it wrote at 2x in the Pioneer.  I put that 2nd BD-RE DL in the LG and tried Roxio again, which wrote to 2x this time.  So, I'll see if Macrium Reflect verifies fail this time. 

 

 

It was apparently the 1st Verbatim BD-RE DL that had gone bad.  The 2nd one burned fine with Roxio in the LG and verifies passed in Macrium Reflect.  Which makes sense.  All the tests I ran before said this should have worked.  Only a rogue disc wouldn't work, which was the case.

 

 

HA!  Life tried to fool me again!  But, I'm too smart for it!  A SECOND Verbatim BD-RE DL wrote at 1x in the LG with Roxio.    So, I tested it with the Pioneer and STILL 1x.     So, I put in a FOURTH Verbatim BD-RE DL in the Pioneer and it writes at 2x!  Thus, it will write at 2x in the LG, it would seem.  Which it did! 

 

 

So, I still stand by my final statement: just use Pioneers.  That will usually just solve the problem. 

Edited January 2, 2018 by dbminter

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Nothing has been 'capped', it (Roxio) probably enabled defect management by (re)formatting with spare areas, so your drive is verifying as it burns and getting around any problem areas on the disc, remapping them to the 'spare area'.

[dbminter]

The first disc was apparently bad as the Macrium Reflect verifies failed.  I just know that if I continued with these "capped" writes, the data would be corrupt on the 2nd disc that did that, too.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

That's nothing to do with the speed it's burning.

 

Bad burns/discs are bad burns/discs.

 

You stand a better chance of things being 'ok' if the drive's defect management is active. Of course you're then stuck with slower burns and slightly less available disc space.

[dbminter]

Now this one was unexpected and inexplicable.  Macrium Reflect verifies on this one burn verified in the Windows version of the application, but failed in the WinPE boot version of the application!    I test both because I remember Drive Image would do the same thing: Windows application version would verify but booting the disc into DOS and running the application, the verify might fail.  I don't remember which drive burned this BD-RE DL.  I was burning BD-RE DL from different images in both my Pioneer and LG at the same time, one in ImgBurn and one in Roxio.  And I didn't note on the Post It on this particular BD-RE DL which drive wrote it.  So, I'm reburning it in the Pioneer since I "know" the Pioneers write Verbatim BD-RE DL properly, where as LG's are nothing but problems writing to them.

 

 

As I should have said to myself, stick with Pioneers, you fool!    Of course, this Pioneer I'm currently using is like 4 years old, sitting the last year or 2 on a shelf.  It was still working, save for the eject button issue, after a year and half.  When my 3rd Pioneer stopped writing to BD-RE correctly, I swapped it back in while I wait to get a new Pioneer to replace it with.  It may not be as good as I think.