ImgBurn using wrong MAX speed for HP DVD+R DL?

[nseidl]

On my first attempt to burn HP DVD+R DL I got some ugly noises, error messages (see below) and a $3 coaster. Later I noticed that the burn speed ImgBurn used (4x) exceeded the media rating (2.4x). Tried again with 2.4x selected and it worked flawlessly.

 

 

I 00:12:51 ImgBurn Version 2.1.0.0 started!

I 00:12:51 Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition (5.1, Build 2600 : Service Pack 2)

I 00:12:51 Initialising SPTI...

I 00:12:51 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...

I 00:12:52 Found 1 DVD-ROM and 1 DVD?RW!

I 00:13:57 Operation Started!

I 00:13:57 Source File: C:\123.MDS

I 00:13:57 Source File Sectors: 4,080,235 (MODE1/2048)

I 00:13:57 Source File Size: 8,356,321,280 bytes

I 00:13:57 Source File Volume Identifier: 123

I 00:13:57 Source File Implementation Identifier: MEI

I 00:13:57 Source File File System(s): ISO9660, UDF (1.02)

I 00:13:57 Destination Device: [1:0:0] HL-DT-ST DVD+-RW GWA4164B D108 (D:) (ATA)

I 00:13:57 Destination Media Type: DVD+R DL (Disc ID: CMC MAG-D01-00) (Speeds: 4x)

I 00:13:57 Destination Media Sectors: 4,173,824

I 00:13:57 Write Mode: DVD

I 00:13:57 Write Type: DAO

I 00:13:57 Write Speed: MAX

I 00:13:57 Link Size: Auto

I 00:13:57 Test Mode: No

I 00:13:57 BURN-Proof: Enabled

I 00:13:57 Optimal L0 Data Zone Capacity: 2,046,368

I 00:13:57 Optimal L0 Data Zone Method: Copied From Original Disc

I 00:13:58 Filling Buffer...

I 00:13:58 Writing LeadIn...

I 00:14:31 Writing Image...

I 00:14:31 Writing Layer 0... (LBA: 0 - 2046367)

W 00:18:44 Failed to Write Sectors 682912 - 682943 - Spindle Servo Failure

W 00:18:45 Retrying (1 of 20)...

W 00:18:45 Retry Failed - No Seek Complete

W 00:18:45 Retrying (2 of 20)...

W 00:18:45 Retry Failed - Invalid Address For Write

 

W 01:02:19 Retrying (37)...

W 01:02:19 Retry Failed - Invalid Address For Write

E 01:02:20 Failed to Write Sectors 682912 - 682943 - Spindle Servo Failure

I 01:02:20 Synchronising Cache...

I 01:02:21 Closing Track...

I 01:02:22 Finalising Disc...

E 01:02:23 Failed to Write Image!

E 01:02:23 Operation Failed! - Duration: 00:48:25

I 01:02:23 Average Write Rate: 476 KB/s (0.3x) - Maximum Write Rate: 5,592 KB/s (4.0x)

I 10:26:46 Close Request Acknowledged

I 10:26:46 Closing Down...

I 10:26:46 Shutting down SPTI...

[blutach]

Your problem is more the media than the speed. You're lucky to get anything to burn on a CMC. We recommend only Verbatim DL media (MKM dye).

 

Regards

[LIGHTNING UK!]

That '(Speeds: 4x)' bit means they're the speeds supported by the drive (with that firmware) on that media.

 

So you only have your drive / firmware to blame I'm afraid.

 

As blutach said though, don't use ANYTHING other than Verbatim DVD+R DL media.

[lfcrule1972]

How were you able to write to those discs at 2.4x when that speed isn't supported

 

Ditto on the comments re the Dual layer media too

[dontasciime]

Telepathy

[lfcrule1972]

I was thinking it was a modern day miracle.....altho with CMC MAG's anything is possible eh ?

[scuzzy]

As blutach said though, don't use ANYTHING other than Verbatim DVD+R DL media.

 

For my education ... do you guys also approve of Verbatim DVD-R DL media ?

I just bought a pack of Verbatim DVD-R DL 4x discs, pack says "advanced azo" (dye ?), and ImgBurn reports "Manufacturer ID: MKM 01RD30". Is that on your approved list too ?

 

TIA

[blutach]

No!!!! No -R DL media is not on the list due to the crazy way -R DLs "work". We only recommend +R DLs. Do yourself a favour and take them back and swap them for +R DLs.

 

Regards

[scuzzy]

No!!!! No -R DL media is not on the list due to the crazy way -R DLs "work". We only recommend +R DLs.

Regards

 

Damn .. thanks for the info. Do you have any useful links you could point me to about the background to this ? I'd like to understand the differences between -R and +R, specifically whatever lies behind the craziness you've observed.

 

I've just read the Drives & Media thread on DVD-R DL (http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?showtopic=697) and saw it has a failed test, and inability to set the layer break position being reported .. but I'd like to understand more.

 

Do yourself a favour and take them back and swap them for +R DLs.

 

Well thanks for the suggestion, but I think I'll have to accept the failed purchase - I bought the pack from a small shop, where the owner's a nice guy, and I don't want to give him a hard time - the pack's already been opened and one jewel-cased disk had the shrinkwrap removed - he probably can't send them back to Verbatim (well not unless I can give him more to tell them than "the ImgBurn community has a bad time with -R DL disks" !).

 

Cheers

[LIGHTNING UK!]

You cannot set the layer break position if you're using DVD-R DL media. It's a feature only supported by the DVD+R DL discs.

 

If you can't move the layer break, you're forced to attempt to align things with the FIXED (physical) layer break - and that's almost never something you want to do.

 

It also means that you can't make a proper copy of your disc - unless of course it was on DVD-R DL media in the first place (again, because the layer break position would be wrong).

 

For actual burn quality, I'm sure the media is fine. It's just the limitations of the DVD-R DL format that's the problem.

 

Also remember that you can't perform bitsetting on the minus format discs (DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD-R DL etc) so if you're burning a DVD Video disc and have a picky standalone player, it probably won't work with that media anyway.

[blutach]

That oughta be enough for the shopkeeper

 

Seriously, he just sends them back to Verbatims saying they are bung and they will chuck 'em out. I strongly doubt he'll be outa pocket. Try it

 

Regards

[scuzzy]

Replying to myself for the benefit of anyone else searching :

 

Do you have any useful links you could point me to about the background to this ? I'd like to understand the differences between -R and +R

 

By sheer coincidence, an extremely informative recent (30th.Oct) article by Patrick McFarland about DVD media :

http://adterrasperaspera.com/blog/2006/10/...archival-media/

"How To Choose CD/DVD Archival Media"

has just (11th.Dec) been discussed on Slashdot :

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/11/1714232

This article has a fantastic amount of detail, including a good discussion of why +R is better than -R. Note there's also a lot of good info in the comments from readers at the end of the article.

 

Summary: the author says always use only DVD+R, preferably made by "Taiyo Yuden". Avoid all forms of DL unless you really have to, in which case use DVD+R DL.

 

An interesting assertion appears among the comments : DVD-RAM can handle on the order of a thousand times more write-cycles before needing to replace the media than the -RW/+RW types can. Hmmm.

 

(Maybe the link to the above article could be pinned into the Drives & Media forum .... ?)

 

The article says Taiyo Yuden media can be hard to find, but that in Europe, Verbatim media is often really made by Taiyo Yuden - I'm a little puzzled about this - the article says Taiyo Yuden uses a Super Cyanine dye, while all the Verbatim packaging I've seen lately seems to state they use Advanced Azo dye. There's a Taiyo Yuden FAQ at http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=178622

 

I also found some other links :

 

A useful summary of DVD media types, and video format capabilities :

http://www.videohelp.com/dvd

 

Basic descriptions (just Wikipedia stubs at present) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-R_DL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD%2BR_DL

 

A short article on the differences between DVD-x and DVD+x :

http://netforbeginners.about.com/cs/multim...a/DVD_discs.htm

 

An article about bitsetting (= setting the DVD "booktype") :

http://www.cdfreaks.com/reviews/Increased-...bitsetting.html

Explains why you can do this with +R but not with -R.

 

The basic thing I've learned from all this is that the DVD-x standards were the first onto the market, but are to some degree a bodge job - the DVD+x standards are by common acclaim much better for multiple reasons. The DVD-x standards are often thought of as more "compatible" simply because more domestic players have been manufactured with them in mind ... but this will likely change over time. (Note: the Videohelp article above gives alleged percentage figures for actual compatibility) Two different industry consortia are backing the two sets of standards, with the DVD+ consortium being much larger than the DVD- one, like this :

DVD-x : Pioneer, Toshiba, Panasonic

DVD+x : Dell, Hewlett-Packard, MCC/Verbatim, Philips, Ricoh, Sony, Thomson multimedia and Yamaha Corporation

[polopony]

never saw where Taiyo Yuden makes Verbatim I think the articles wrong also we were talking about Dual Layer discs which Taiyo Yuden doesn't make at all. They do make great single layer discs. Verbatim DL +R are the only discs to use if you're burning dual layer

[scuzzy]

Thanks - Verbatim it shall be, +R wherever possible. Disregarding the Taiyo Yuden thing, the article does say to buy only discs made in Japan or Taiwan - and all the Verbatim ones I'm seeing say made in Taiwan.

[polopony]

Japan and Taiwan produce about 99% of the discs, India has gotten into the manufacture of discs lately but I dont know about their quality, Verbatim + and - are excellent for single layer and Taiyo Yuden the same all others are junk by comparison .

My Verbs are also made in Taiwan I use the + and - the use AZO dye are MCC ID code and 16X I use a NEC3500 and cant remember the last time I made a coaster and all verify 100%

[kevdriver]

Just started to find the Verbs up here in Ottawa with the AZO dye on them, They are so far just excellent, no frizbees and nice scans. Excellent playback quality too.

[scuzzy]

Hmmm ... found a cake of 25 Verbatim CD-Rs today, 52x but not "Super Azo" marked, stating "Made in China" on the wrapper. Didn't buy them.

 

Already have a box of Verbatim printable CD-Rs in jewel-cases, marked "Super Azo", stating "Made in India" - and also have a box of Verbatim "Music grade" CD-Rs, no indication of dye type at all, stating "Made in Japan". All the Verbatim DVDs I've seen say "Advanced Azo", rather than "Super Azo" - variations on the chemical theme I guess.

 

There's obviously a lot more to all this than I had any idea of ... Does "Japan and Taiwan produce about 99% of the discs" apply really to DVDs, rather than CDs ?

 

[Maybe I should take this dialogue off to CD-Freaks forums now - getting a bit OT for the ImgBurn forum ?]

Edited December 20, 2006 by scuzzy

[polopony]

I went back over all the posts in this thread and as far as I can tell we have been talking about DVD's all along ,TThere are other manufacturers for DVD's but I think they would be local sales ,There are not that many dye manufacturers which is the #1 thing to look for

[lfcrule1972]

I thought we were discussing blank DVDs too! I might be wrong but CD-R dye quality seems to be far less of an issue, I have loads of cheapo ones and they all playback fine....

[spinningwheel]

I've not had a problem with cd's either, regardless of who makes them. I don't believe there is a problem with them since the cd standard has been in place and accepted for such a long time.

DVD's are a different subject entirely. Japan and Taiwan seem to put out the best products, as long as you stay within the parameters of TY or Verb naming. India, China, Malaysia and other areas of production are a problem since their goal seems to be to flood the marketplace with junk and let the 'buyer beware'.....

[zacoz]

It's hard to come up with another product type where so much of what's on the market clearly and consistently does not perform the job intended. The bulk of the disc companies simply rely on people not standing up for their legal rights and returning the faulty product.

[lfcrule1972]

Just returning to the Verb DVD-R DL part of this topic, I bought a standalone DVD recorder at the weekend to use with the TV. I bought a Panasonic one that records to DVD?R(W), DVD RAM, DVD+R DL and it also claims to be record to DVD-R DL's......

 

So I am thinking that I might just be able to record to those last 3x -R DL's that I received for testing !!! We shall see tho....

[Kenadjian]

That will be interesting LFC, let us know how they go.

[lfcrule1972]

Yeah will do - I spent 45 mins last night trying to plug in all the cables and wires from the new tv, Sky+, tv, PS2 and Sky eye - honestly I have never seen so many wires ! Then I read the DVD recorder manual - the basic stuff is a piece of piss but it can be quite flash if the operator is up to it ! I had a cunning plan to label all the leads with the name of the socket they came out of - however Mrs lfcrule had helpfully unplugged them all and moved the old tv and dvd player into the other room before I got home

 

I did read that you need to close the first layer before you can record to the second when using DVD-R DL, not sure how that would work if your recording a film etc but I will give it a go over Xmas and let you know what happens.

[Kenadjian]

I did read that you need to close the first layer before you can record to the second when using DVD-R DL

 

Very ineresting, to say the least.