extract only session two from audio CD?

toddgiffen · February 25, 2018

hi I'm using EAC to rip my audio CDs for archival, but come across some discs with data in session 2. EAC cannot rip them and arguable EAC/Cuetools/foobar2000 rip the discs audio portion more securely with multiple reads, C2 support, Accurate Rip DB checks, etc. in EAC I actually rip to FLAC+CUE image to save all hidden tracks and gaps. now to save the data portion losslessly.

so I'm looking for a good solution and Imgburn came up as it has the ability to burn FLAC+ISO+BIN+CUE no issue by making a custom CUE.

problem is, I cannot find an option to rip the session 2 data portion using Imgburn, even if it can burn such flac + ISO/BIN combination CUE.

any pointers on how to rip that session 2 to a BIN/ISO to then burn using Imgburn/combine into a CUE with the FLAC/WAV?

Does Imgburn need to add support for such ability to extra the session 2 independently from session 1 audio data?

in the end hoping to be able to use a CUE like the below if I want to re-create the original CD as losslessly as possible, and even mount the disc and access the data as I see fit:

REM GENRE Pop
REM DATE 1999
REM DISCID 970D8F0C
REM COMMENT "ExactAudioCopy v1.3"
PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
TITLE "...Baby One More Time"
REM COMPOSER ""
FILE "Britney Spears - ...Baby One More Time.flac" WAVE
REM SESSION 01
TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE "...Baby One More Time"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19810404
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
TRACK 02 AUDIO
    TITLE "(You Drive Me) Crazy"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910451
    INDEX 00 03:30:53
    INDEX 01 03:31:22
TRACK 03 AUDIO
    TITLE "Sometimes"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910452
    INDEX 00 06:49:29
    INDEX 01 06:51:34
TRACK 04 AUDIO
    TITLE "Soda Pop"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910453
    INDEX 00 10:56:38
    INDEX 01 10:57:45
TRACK 05 AUDIO
    TITLE "Born To Make You Happy"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910454
    INDEX 00 14:18:11
    INDEX 01 14:19:54
TRACK 06 AUDIO
    TITLE "From The Bottom Of My Broken Heart"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910455
    INDEX 00 18:23:22
    INDEX 01 18:24:65
TRACK 07 AUDIO
    TITLE "I Will Be There"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910456
    INDEX 00 23:36:20
    INDEX 01 23:37:32
TRACK 08 AUDIO
    TITLE "I Will Still Love You (Duet With Don Philips)"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910457
    INDEX 00 27:30:62
    INDEX 01 27:32:29
TRACK 09 AUDIO
    TITLE "Thinkin' About You"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910458
    INDEX 00 31:35:26
    INDEX 01 31:36:17
TRACK 10 AUDIO
    TITLE "E-Mail My Heart"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910459
    INDEX 00 35:10:39
    INDEX 01 35:12:47
TRACK 11 AUDIO
    TITLE "The Beat Goes On"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910460
    INDEX 00 38:54:56
    INDEX 01 38:55:54

REM LEAD-OUT 42:38:59

FILE "Britney Spears - ...Baby One More Time.iso" BINARY
REM SESSION 02
TRACK 12 MODE2/2352
    INDEX 01 45:10:59

Edited February 25, 2018 by toddgiffen

toddgiffen · February 25, 2018

also wondering about the TOC- in the CUE, INDEX 01 of SESSION 2 at 45:10:59, but the IMGBURN shows this as a TOC after it analyzes the disc:

TOC Information:
Session 1... (LBA: 0 / 00:02:00)
-> Track 01 (Audio, 03:31:22, LBA: 0 / 00:02:00)
-> Track 02 (Audio, 03:20:12, LBA: 15847 / 03:33:22)
-> Track 03 (Audio, 04:06:11, LBA: 30859 / 06:53:34)
-> Track 04 (Audio, 03:22:09, LBA: 49320 / 10:59:45)
-> Track 05 (Audio, 04:05:11, LBA: 64479 / 14:21:54)
-> Track 06 (Audio, 05:12:42, LBA: 82865 / 18:26:65)
-> Track 07 (Audio, 03:54:72, LBA: 106307 / 23:39:32)
-> Track 08 (Audio, 04:03:63, LBA: 123929 / 27:34:29)
-> Track 09 (Audio, 03:36:30, LBA: 142217 / 31:38:17)
-> Track 10 (Audio, 03:43:07, LBA: 158447 / 35:14:47)
-> Track 11 (Audio, 03:43:05, LBA: 175179 / 38:57:54)
-> LeadOut (LBA: 191909 / 42:40:59)
Session 2... (LBA: 203309 / 45:12:59)
-> Track 12 (Mode 2, Form 1, LBA: 203309 / 45:12:59)
-> LeadOut (LBA: 260335 / 57:53:10)

Session 2 starts at 45:12:59 in the TOC? what happened to that 2 seconds, and why isn't it being archived in order to create entirely 1:1 replicas?

Edited February 25, 2018 by toddgiffen

toddgiffen · February 25, 2018

I did find a temporary solution- ISOBuster can extract a session to BIN/ISO. I have no idea yet if it works. I have no idea if ImgBurn can burn the wav then ISO either, because I haven't tested it, but an old topic from like 2009 touched bases on it which is how I found ImgBurn would be a good burn tool for this task.

what I select in ISOBuster is the session 2, then extract contents, then store in raw/iso/bin. hope it works. I tried Nero Burning ROM 2014 just now it does not support such CUE/WAV-FLAC/ISO set up, need to make a trip to the store for CD-R's to try it in ImgBurn.

Edited February 25, 2018 by toddgiffen

**LIGHTNING UK!** · February 25, 2018

As part of the spec, there are often 2 second gaps inserted when you go between audio and data, or at the start of a session etc. So you aren't losing anything, it's just a forced pregap.

You did right by trying IsoBuster, that's what I'd have told you to use.

Don't set the index of the first track in that second session to 45:xx:xx though, the index is relative to the start of the file - and as you're starting a new file, you want it at 00:00:00

toddgiffen · February 25, 2018

here's my new CUE- 1 Q, how to make sure the second session starts at MSF: 45:10:59 = LBA: 203309? I notice ISOBuster creates those extra hints, does ImgBurn use them?

REM GENRE Pop
REM DATE 1999
REM DISCID 970D8F0C
REM COMMENT "ExactAudioCopy v1.3"
PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
TITLE "...Baby One More Time"
REM COMPOSER ""
FILE "Britney Spears - ...Baby One More Time.wav" WAVE
REM SESSION 01
TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE "...Baby One More Time"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19810404
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
    REM MSF: 00:00:00 = LBA: 0
TRACK 02 AUDIO
    TITLE "(You Drive Me) Crazy"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910451
    INDEX 00 03:30:53
    INDEX 01 03:31:22
    REM MSF: 03:31:22 = LBA: 15847
TRACK 03 AUDIO
    TITLE "Sometimes"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910452
    INDEX 00 06:49:29
    INDEX 01 06:51:34
    REM MSF: 06:51:34 = LBA: 30859
TRACK 04 AUDIO
    TITLE "Soda Pop"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910453
    INDEX 00 10:56:38
    INDEX 01 10:57:45
    REM MSF: 10:57:45 = LBA: 49320
TRACK 05 AUDIO
    TITLE "Born To Make You Happy"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910454
    INDEX 00 14:18:11
    INDEX 01 14:19:54
    REM MSF: 14:19:54 = LBA: 64479
TRACK 06 AUDIO
    TITLE "From The Bottom Of My Broken Heart"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910455
    INDEX 00 18:23:22
    INDEX 01 18:24:65
    REM MSF: 18:24:65 = LBA: 82865
TRACK 07 AUDIO
    TITLE "I Will Be There"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910456
    INDEX 00 23:36:20
    INDEX 01 23:37:32
    REM MSF: 23:37:32 = LBA: 106307
TRACK 08 AUDIO
    TITLE "I Will Still Love You (Duet With Don Philips)"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910457
    INDEX 00 27:30:62
    INDEX 01 27:32:29
    REM MSF: 27:32:29 = LBA: 123929
TRACK 09 AUDIO
    TITLE "Thinkin' About You"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910458
    INDEX 00 31:35:26
    INDEX 01 31:36:17
    REM MSF: 31:36:17 = LBA: 142217
TRACK 10 AUDIO
    TITLE "E-Mail My Heart"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910459
    INDEX 00 35:10:39
    INDEX 01 35:12:47
    REM MSF: 35:12:47 = LBA: 158447
TRACK 11 AUDIO
    TITLE "The Beat Goes On"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910460
    INDEX 00 38:54:56
    INDEX 01 38:55:54
    REM MSF: 38:55:54 = LBA: 175179

REM LEAD-OUT 42:38:59

FILE "Britney Spears - ...Baby One More Time.iso" BINARY
REM SESSION 02
TRACK 12 MODE2/2352
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
    REM MSF: 45:10:59 = LBA: 203309

Edited February 25, 2018 by toddgiffen

toddgiffen · February 25, 2018

I can tell you why I need that second session to start at

INDEX 01 45:10:59
REM MSF: 45:10:59 = LBA: 203309

cause I was able to test this in Nero by burning it to NRG (Image Recorder), Nero is either dumb and buggy or doesn't recognize the image entirely or does things how all software will. it puts the second session/track at 0:42:38.59 and EAC / Accurate Rip / Cuetools/etc cannot see it as a recognized disc.

ImgBurn might handle differently putting it at 45:10:59/203309 but without a way to burn to image I cannot test ImgBurn to see, until I get some CD-Rs.

Edited February 25, 2018 by toddgiffen

**LIGHTNING UK!** · February 25, 2018

I believe CUE files were designed by GoldenHawk / CDRWIN people and I'm sure the first index in a file should be 00:00:00, so it looks like Nero is buggy/wrong.

Fingers crossed, ImgBurn handles it differently (correctly!). There's a specific number of sectors between sessions and Nero doesn't seem to be honouring that.

As a friendly tip/hint, don't extract to / name your file *.iso if you want MODE2/2352.

*.iso should be reserved for MODE1/2048.

Use *.BIN, even if it's just a file name extension that's different.

toddgiffen · February 25, 2018

I believe CUE files were designed by GoldenHawk / CDRWIN people and I'm sure the first index in a file should be 00:00:00, so it looks like Nero is buggy/wrong.

Fingers crossed, ImgBurn handles it differently (correctly!). There's a specific number of sectors between sessions and Nero doesn't seem to be honouring that.

As a friendly tip/hint, don't extract to / name your file *.iso if you want MODE2/2352.

*.iso should be reserved for MODE1/2048.

Use *.BIN, even if it's just a file name extension that's different.

yes ISO Buster doesn't even let you name the file .bin if you use "EXTRACT SESSION->EXTRACT CONTENT" that I know of. it lets you change the folder only, and auto names the file.

ah found the option. ISO Buster default options for image creation: DEFAULT TO .ISO INSTEAD OF .BIN.

Edited February 25, 2018 by toddgiffen

toddgiffen · February 25, 2018

got to let you know that ImgBurn is unstable on my system bro. everytime I try to rip certain discs to image on certain times, it stops on things like "analyzing track 2" before it even starts reading it. it will sit there for 5 minutes stuck never unsticking, got to unplug the drive to get ImgBurn to respond. only sometimes it will actually start to read the disc and make a .bin. oddly it will read the disc fine once, then always freeze during the process. does this have to do with GAPS? had that issue with gap detection on EAC on one disc, but ImgBurn does this more often..

also here's something weird. have any tips for when it does make a BIN regarding audio ripping? I made a BIN, and I mount that in Alcohol, rip with EAC, and EAC reports only 4 tracks are accurately ripped, while the rest are not even recognized by Accurate Rip/Cuetools DB.

they have a database of basically every known audio CD with checksums so it knows if your rip is accurate, and what I have found is general purpose disc image makers like ImgBurn, Alcohol, and even ISOBuster, cannot for the life of themselves make a BIN/CUE that reads in EAC properly, meaning the audio samples are different using these programs.

I understand EAC, foobar2000, and CUERIPPER are specialized programs that read Audio CD better, but even in burst mode when all error correction is allegedly turned off in EAC, EAC still reads the disc 100% accuracy everytime. but ImgBurn, Alcohol, ISOBuster all read Audio CD different each time, meaning 11 tracks will be accurate rips and 6 not, then next BIN/CUE you make of the same disc, 10 tracks accurate rips 7 not.

Cuetools reports different tracks have "differing samples."

drive I have: iHAS324-17 LITE-ON. according to dBPoweramp this drive is the most accurate drive in their 2016 database (actually listed as iHAS124-14, but I think they are the same drive as firmware versions are close cousins, just different features enabled/disabled)

Edited February 25, 2018 by toddgiffen

toddgiffen · February 26, 2018

here's the EAC log showing that ImgBurn, ISO Buster, and Alcohol 120% have issues reading Audio CD Britney Spears to an image file accurately (not just this album, but all Audio CDs these software read inconsistently compared to EAC/foobar2000/CUERipper directly from the Audio CD), based on mounting the resulting BIN/CUE or MDS file in Alcohol 120%, and then using EAC to rip from the virtual drive to test the image quality.

EAC is able to verify if a rip is accurate by comparing the sample checksums with AccurateRip and Cuetools database. Cuetools has parity data to repair a bad rip if only some samples differ as well but not if the track returns "no match."

FIRST RIP USING EAC AND THE IHAS324-17 F DRIVE DIRECTLY WHICH ALWAYS READS 100% ACCURATELY EVEN WITH BURST MODE WHERE IT DISABLES C2 POINTERS AND ALL ERROR CORRECTION, ALTHOUGH BELOW I USED SECURE MODE:

Ripped with EAC directly from audio CD:

Exact Audio Copy V1.3 from 2. September 2016

EAC extraction logfile from 24. February 2018, 14:53

Britney Spears / ...Baby One More Time

Used drive : ATAPI iHAS324 F Adapter: 1 ID: 1

Read mode : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache : Yes
Make use of C2 pointers : Yes

Read offset correction                      : 6
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : Yes
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000

Used output format              : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate                : 768 kBit/s
Quality                         : High
Add ID3 tag                     : No
Command line compressor         : C:\Program Files (x86)\Exact Audio Copy\FLAC\FLAC.EXE
Additional command line options : --best -V -T "ARTIST=%artist%" -T "TITLE=%title%" -T "ALBUM=%albumtitle%" -T "DATE=%year%" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%tracknr%" -T "GENRE=%genre%" -T "COMMENT=%comment%" -T "BAND=%albuminterpret%" -T "ALBUMARTIST=%albuminterpret%" -T "COMPOSER=%composer%" %haslyrics%--tag-from-file=LYRICS="%lyricsfile%"%haslyrics% -T "DISCNUMBER=%cdnumber%" -T "TOTALDISCS=%totalcds%" -T "TOTALTRACKS=%numtracks%" %hascover%--picture="%coverfile%"%hascover% %source% -o %dest%

TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1 | 0:00.00 | 3:31.22 |         0    |    15846
        2 | 3:31.22 | 3:20.12 |     15847    |    30858
        3 | 6:51.34 | 4:06.11 |     30859    |    49319
        4 | 10:57.45 | 3:22.09 |     49320    |    64478
        5 | 14:19.54 | 4:05.11 |     64479    |    82864
        6 | 18:24.65 | 5:12.42 |     82865    |   106306
        7 | 23:37.32 | 3:54.72 |    106307    |   123928
        8 | 27:32.29 | 4:03.63 |    123929    |   142216
        9 | 31:36.17 | 3:36.30 |    142217    |   158446
       10 | 35:12.47 | 3:43.07 |    158447    |   175178
       11 | 38:55.54 | 3:43.05 |    175179    |   191908
       12 | 45:10.59 | 12:40.26 |    203309    |   260334

Range status and errors

Selected range

Filename D:\music\Britney Spears\...Baby One More Time\Britney Spears - ...Baby One More Time.wav

     Peak level 98.8 %
     Extraction speed 2.2 X
     Range quality 99.9 %
     Copy CRC FF94297A
     Copy OK

No errors occurred

AccurateRip summary

Track 1 accurately ripped (confidence 14) [782190FA] (AR v2)
Track 2 accurately ripped (confidence 14) [48A457DE] (AR v2)
Track 3 accurately ripped (confidence 14) [55EFBAFC] (AR v2)
Track 4 accurately ripped (confidence 14) [CAC292D8] (AR v2)
Track 5 accurately ripped (confidence 14) [b407173D] (AR v2)
Track 6 accurately ripped (confidence 14) [3838AC20] (AR v2)
Track 7 accurately ripped (confidence 14) [AF960426] (AR v2)
Track 8 accurately ripped (confidence 14) [A92430CC] (AR v2)
Track 9 accurately ripped (confidence 14) [66B1B6BA] (AR v2)
Track 10 accurately ripped (confidence 13) [EFE6A051] (AR v2)
Track 11 accurately ripped (confidence 14) [FEED495D] (AR v2)

All tracks accurately ripped

End of status report

---- AcoustID Plugin V1.2.0

Total fingerprints: 11

---- CUETools DB Plugin V2.1.6

==== Log checksum 9E145864B900A235665B9EF8C18C9ADE5B46F23851D4617606886F113C8A5C01 ====

------------------------------------------------------------

Now when you rip the Audio CD to bin/cue with ISOBuster, and mount with any virtual software, and rip using EAC, EAC looks at the samples and finds it inaccurate:

Exact Audio Copy V1.3 from 2. September 2016

EAC extraction logfile from 25. February 2018, 23:36

Britney Spears / ...Baby One More Time

Used drive : Alcohol V-SATA CD/DVD Adapter: 1 ID: 2

Read mode : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache : Yes
Make use of C2 pointers : Yes

Read offset correction                      : 6
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : Yes
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000

Used output format              : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate                : 768 kBit/s
Quality                         : High
Add ID3 tag                     : No
Command line compressor         : C:\Program Files (x86)\Exact Audio Copy\FLAC\FLAC.EXE
Additional command line options : --best -V -T "ARTIST=%artist%" -T "TITLE=%title%" -T "ALBUM=%albumtitle%" -T "DATE=%year%" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%tracknr%" -T "GENRE=%genre%" -T "COMMENT=%comment%" -T "BAND=%albuminterpret%" -T "ALBUMARTIST=%albuminterpret%" -T "COMPOSER=%composer%" %haslyrics%--tag-from-file=LYRICS="%lyricsfile%"%haslyrics% -T "DISCNUMBER=%cdnumber%" -T "TOTALDISCS=%totalcds%" -T "TOTALTRACKS=%numtracks%" %hascover%--picture="%coverfile%"%hascover% %source% -o %dest%

TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1 | 0:00.00 | 3:31.22 |         0    |    15846
        2 | 3:31.22 | 3:20.12 |     15847    |    30858
        3 | 6:51.34 | 4:06.11 |     30859    |    49319
        4 | 10:57.45 | 3:22.09 |     49320    |    64478
        5 | 14:19.54 | 4:05.11 |     64479    |    82864
        6 | 18:24.65 | 5:12.42 |     82865    |   106306
        7 | 23:37.32 | 3:54.72 |    106307    |   123928
        8 | 27:32.29 | 4:03.63 |    123929    |   142216
        9 | 31:36.17 | 3:36.30 |    142217    |   158446
       10 | 35:12.47 | 3:43.07 |    158447    |   175178
       11 | 38:55.54 | 6:15.05 |    175179    |   203308
       12 | 45:10.59 | 12:40.26 |    203309    |   260334

Range status and errors

Selected range

Filename D:\music\TEST\Britney Spears - ...Baby One More Time.wav

     Peak level 98.8 %
     Extraction speed 142.9 X
     Range quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 6376A891
     Copy OK

No errors occurred

AccurateRip summary

Track 1 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 76) [DA32CBE2], AccurateRip returned [E93C7476] (AR v2)
Track 2 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 77) [8BA5E673], AccurateRip returned [FF112A57] (AR v2)
Track 3 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 76) [106A2CC5], AccurateRip returned [896AC9A7] (AR v2)
Track 4 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 77) [936FAC03], AccurateRip returned [1F229E8C] (AR v2)
Track 5 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 77) [9F019240], AccurateRip returned [240E3856] (AR v2)
Track 6 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 76) [84CF8D64], AccurateRip returned [ADA93155] (AR v2)
Track 7 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 77) [11F28F2F], AccurateRip returned [4D213F9E] (AR v2)
Track 8 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 76) [32F384D4], AccurateRip returned [7AC68C1C] (AR v2)
Track 9 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 75) [AD74F025], AccurateRip returned [D7D39C18] (AR v2)
Track 10 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 76) [EF9E8ECC], AccurateRip returned [A95F7E10] (AR v2)
Track 11 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 75) [A3E65856], AccurateRip returned [9202BEC2] (AR v2)

No tracks could be verified as accurate
You may have a different pressing from the one(s) in the database

End of status report

---- AcoustID Plugin V1.2.0

Total fingerprints: 11

---- CUETools DB Plugin V2.1.6

==== Log checksum FCC76DABB65F4D8CA94055733A6F3515034387CF4A798348F08B53C2AF6A4659 ====

------------------------------------------------------------

as you can see from the above, the checksums are different for all files.

now I test Alcohol 120%:

Alcohol 120 ripped to MDS, mounted with Alcohol, ripped with EAC, interestingly compared to ISO Buster it got all accurate results on this disc (I found alcohol seems to accurately rip shorter discs, but have problems on longer ones, unknown reason why because I have tested and ripped under exact conditions- to get this rip in Alcohol I used options: Subchannel data, Ignore Errors, Re-read errors 16 times before reporting errors, Enhance Weak Sectors, no Data Position Measurement):

Exact Audio Copy V1.3 from 2. September 2016

EAC extraction logfile from 25. February 2018, 23:44

Britney Spears / ...Baby One More Time

Used drive : Alcohol V-SATA CD/DVD Adapter: 1 ID: 2

Read mode : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache : Yes
Make use of C2 pointers : Yes

Read offset correction                      : 6
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : Yes
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000

Used output format              : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate                : 768 kBit/s
Quality                         : High
Add ID3 tag                     : No
Command line compressor         : C:\Program Files (x86)\Exact Audio Copy\FLAC\FLAC.EXE
Additional command line options : --best -V -T "ARTIST=%artist%" -T "TITLE=%title%" -T "ALBUM=%albumtitle%" -T "DATE=%year%" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%tracknr%" -T "GENRE=%genre%" -T "COMMENT=%comment%" -T "BAND=%albuminterpret%" -T "ALBUMARTIST=%albuminterpret%" -T "COMPOSER=%composer%" %haslyrics%--tag-from-file=LYRICS="%lyricsfile%"%haslyrics% -T "DISCNUMBER=%cdnumber%" -T "TOTALDISCS=%totalcds%" -T "TOTALTRACKS=%numtracks%" %hascover%--picture="%coverfile%"%hascover% %source% -o %dest%

TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1 | 0:00.00 | 3:31.22 |         0    |    15846
        2 | 3:31.22 | 3:20.12 |     15847    |    30858
        3 | 6:51.34 | 4:06.11 |     30859    |    49319
        4 | 10:57.45 | 3:22.09 |     49320    |    64478
        5 | 14:19.54 | 4:05.11 |     64479    |    82864
        6 | 18:24.65 | 5:12.42 |     82865    |   106306
        7 | 23:37.32 | 3:54.72 |    106307    |   123928
        8 | 27:32.29 | 4:03.63 |    123929    |   142216
        9 | 31:36.17 | 3:36.30 |    142217    |   158446
       10 | 35:12.47 | 3:43.07 |    158447    |   175178
       11 | 38:55.54 | 3:43.05 |    175179    |   191908
       12 | 45:10.59 | 12:40.26 |    203309    |   260334

Range status and errors

Selected range

Filename D:\music\TEST\Britney Spears - ...Baby One More Time.wav

     Peak level 98.8 %
     Extraction speed 9.0 X
     Range quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC CC4F20AD
     Copy OK

No errors occurred

AccurateRip summary

Track 1 accurately ripped (confidence 14) [782190FA] (AR v2)
Track 2 accurately ripped (confidence 14) [48A457DE] (AR v2)
Track 3 accurately ripped (confidence 14) [55EFBAFC] (AR v2)
Track 4 accurately ripped (confidence 14) [CAC292D8] (AR v2)
Track 5 accurately ripped (confidence 14) [b407173D] (AR v2)
Track 6 accurately ripped (confidence 14) [3838AC20] (AR v2)
Track 7 accurately ripped (confidence 14) [AF960426] (AR v2)
Track 8 accurately ripped (confidence 14) [A92430CC] (AR v2)
Track 9 accurately ripped (confidence 14) [66B1B6BA] (AR v2)
Track 10 accurately ripped (confidence 13) [EFE6A051] (AR v2)
Track 11 accurately ripped (confidence 14) [FEED495D] (AR v2)

All tracks accurately ripped

End of status report

---- AcoustID Plugin V1.2.0

Total fingerprints: 11

---- CUETools DB Plugin V2.1.6

==== Log checksum 8EE58EA8F2DB205EFF2D60FCB5C6390B4FC1CCF5688D0044059C23B35E2B7A32 ====

------------------------------------------------------------

End of status report

Then I ripped the same disc using ImgBurn, mounted with Alcohol 120%, ripped with EAC:

Exact Audio Copy V1.3 from 2. September 2016

EAC extraction logfile from 25. February 2018, 23:49

Britney Spears / ...Baby One More Time

Used drive : Alcohol V-SATA CD/DVD Adapter: 1 ID: 2

Read mode : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache : Yes
Make use of C2 pointers : Yes

Read offset correction                      : 6
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : Yes
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000

Used output format              : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate                : 768 kBit/s
Quality                         : High
Add ID3 tag                     : No
Command line compressor         : C:\Program Files (x86)\Exact Audio Copy\FLAC\FLAC.EXE
Additional command line options : --best -V -T "ARTIST=%artist%" -T "TITLE=%title%" -T "ALBUM=%albumtitle%" -T "DATE=%year%" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%tracknr%" -T "GENRE=%genre%" -T "COMMENT=%comment%" -T "BAND=%albuminterpret%" -T "ALBUMARTIST=%albuminterpret%" -T "COMPOSER=%composer%" %haslyrics%--tag-from-file=LYRICS="%lyricsfile%"%haslyrics% -T "DISCNUMBER=%cdnumber%" -T "TOTALDISCS=%totalcds%" -T "TOTALTRACKS=%numtracks%" %hascover%--picture="%coverfile%"%hascover% %source% -o %dest%

TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1 | 0:00.00 | 3:31.22 |         0    |    15846
        2 | 3:31.22 | 3:20.12 |     15847    |    30858
        3 | 6:51.34 | 4:06.11 |     30859    |    49319
        4 | 10:57.45 | 3:22.09 |     49320    |    64478
        5 | 14:19.54 | 4:05.11 |     64479    |    82864
        6 | 18:24.65 | 5:12.42 |     82865    |   106306
        7 | 23:37.32 | 3:54.72 |    106307    |   123928
        8 | 27:32.29 | 4:03.63 |    123929    |   142216
        9 | 31:36.17 | 3:36.30 |    142217    |   158446
       10 | 35:12.47 | 3:43.07 |    158447    |   175178
       11 | 38:55.54 | 6:15.05 |    175179    |   203308
       12 | 45:10.59 | 12:40.26 |    203309    |   260334

Range status and errors

Selected range

Filename D:\music\TEST\Britney Spears - ...Baby One More Time.wav

     Peak level 98.8 %
     Extraction speed 140.0 X
     Range quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 1E28F689
     Copy OK

No errors occurred

AccurateRip summary

Track 1 accurately ripped (confidence 14) [782190FA] (AR v2)
Track 2 accurately ripped (confidence 14) [48A457DE] (AR v2)
Track 3 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 76) [8EB7C075], AccurateRip returned [896AC9A7] (AR v2)
Track 4 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 77) [9BC200BF], AccurateRip returned [1F229E8C] (AR v2)
Track 5 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 77) [747CFE83], AccurateRip returned [240E3856] (AR v2)
Track 6 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 76) [85D46CC8], AccurateRip returned [ADA93155] (AR v2)
Track 7 accurately ripped (confidence 14) [AF960426] (AR v2)
Track 8 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 76) [A48A311D], AccurateRip returned [7AC68C1C] (AR v2)
Track 9 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 75) [3580F556], AccurateRip returned [D7D39C18] (AR v2)
Track 10 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 76) [1F9DF7EA], AccurateRip returned [A95F7E10] (AR v2)
Track 11 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 75) [42AC04B4], AccurateRip returned [9202BEC2] (AR v2)

3 track(s) accurately ripped
8 track(s) could not be verified as accurate

Some tracks could not be verified as accurate

End of status report

---- AcoustID Plugin V1.2.0

Total fingerprints: 11

---- CUETools DB Plugin V2.1.6

==== Log checksum 04E09711CC935D72D2E0BA230AC1C1B740E658CED092D7F91B67FD070A9BF4CE ====

when I ripped the album now 28 using alcohol 120% (EAC directly from audio CD returns 100% accuraterips), it shows how inconsistent it was at reading audio. MDS format, subchannel data, ignore read errors- read 16 times before reporting an error, enhance weak sectors, no DPM.

Exact Audio Copy V1.3 from 2. September 2016

EAC extraction logfile from 25. February 2018, 23:55

Various Artists / Now That's What I Call Music! Vol. 28

Used drive : Alcohol V-SATA CD/DVD Adapter: 1 ID: 2

Read mode : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache : Yes
Make use of C2 pointers : Yes

Read offset correction                      : 6
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : Yes
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000

Used output format              : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate                : 768 kBit/s
Quality                         : High
Add ID3 tag                     : No
Command line compressor         : C:\Program Files (x86)\Exact Audio Copy\FLAC\FLAC.EXE
Additional command line options : --best -V -T "ARTIST=%artist%" -T "TITLE=%title%" -T "ALBUM=%albumtitle%" -T "DATE=%year%" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%tracknr%" -T "GENRE=%genre%" -T "COMMENT=%comment%" -T "BAND=%albuminterpret%" -T "ALBUMARTIST=%albuminterpret%" -T "COMPOSER=%composer%" %haslyrics%--tag-from-file=LYRICS="%lyricsfile%"%haslyrics% -T "DISCNUMBER=%cdnumber%" -T "TOTALDISCS=%totalcds%" -T "TOTALTRACKS=%numtracks%" %hascover%--picture="%coverfile%"%hascover% %source% -o %dest%

TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1 | 0:00.00 | 3:57.54 |         0    |    17828
        2 | 3:57.54 | 3:13.05 |     17829    |    32308
        3 | 7:10.59 | 3:48.42 |     32309    |    49450
        4 | 10:59.26 | 4:07.04 |     49451    |    67979
        5 | 15:06.30 | 3:24.70 |     67980    |    83349
        6 | 18:31.25 | 4:11.55 |     83350    |   102229
        7 | 22:43.05 | 3:14.25 |    102230    |   116804
        8 | 25:57.30 | 3:01.10 |    116805    |   130389
        9 | 28:58.40 | 4:21.20 |    130390    |   149984
       10 | 33:19.60 | 4:02.57 |    149985    |   168191
       11 | 37:22.42 | 3:39.46 |    168192    |   184662
       12 | 41:02.13 | 3:46.01 |    184663    |   201613
       13 | 44:48.14 | 3:17.39 |    201614    |   216427
       14 | 48:05.53 | 2:57.44 |    216428    |   229746
       15 | 51:03.22 | 3:46.13 |    229747    |   246709
       16 | 54:49.35 | 3:24.53 |    246710    |   262062
       17 | 58:14.13 | 3:57.14 |    262063    |   279851
       18 | 62:11.27 | 3:25.08 |    279852    |   295234
       19 | 65:36.35 | 3:43.45 |    295235    |   312004
       20 | 69:20.05 | 3:21.25 |    312005    |   327104

Range status and errors

Selected range

Filename D:\music\TEST\Various Artists - Now That's What I Call Music! Vol. 28.wav

     Peak level 99.9 %
     Extraction speed 132.8 X
     Range quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC B000BF4E
     Copy OK

No errors occurred

AccurateRip summary

Track 1 accurately ripped (confidence 67) [D344FC72] (AR v2)
Track 2 accurately ripped (confidence 68) [C9FAEABD] (AR v2)
Track 3 accurately ripped (confidence 70) [A4666DD3] (AR v2)
Track 4 accurately ripped (confidence 70) [9610701E] (AR v2)
Track 5 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 60) [003308E5], AccurateRip returned [06CFF97B] (AR v2)
Track 6 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 69) [67D06337], AccurateRip returned [6C159D17] (AR v2)
Track 7 accurately ripped (confidence 68) [F3234F76] (AR v2)
Track 8 accurately ripped (confidence 68) [bD41A8B4] (AR v2)
Track 9 accurately ripped (confidence 66) [1C54843D] (AR v2)
Track 10 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 66) [C04AE306], AccurateRip returned [C0434442] (AR v2)
Track 11 accurately ripped (confidence 66) [6CB674FE] (AR v2)
Track 12 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 68) [49FF758F], AccurateRip returned [C5AA596C] (AR v2)
Track 13 accurately ripped (confidence 67) [757A5DFB] (AR v2)
Track 14 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 65) [923BBB58], AccurateRip returned [0B458FFE] (AR v2)
Track 15 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 69) [F04CC4EE], AccurateRip returned [A1354B52] (AR v2)
Track 16 accurately ripped (confidence 65) [41162390] (AR v2)
Track 17 accurately ripped (confidence 63) [0E6DF7B5] (AR v2)
Track 18 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 68) [2CB276FA], AccurateRip returned [80119D46] (AR v2)
Track 19 accurately ripped (confidence 67) [03FB2F9E] (AR v2)
Track 20 accurately ripped (confidence 53) [414CDECD] (AR v2)

13 track(s) accurately ripped
7 track(s) could not be verified as accurate

Some tracks could not be verified as accurate

End of status report

---- AcoustID Plugin V1.2.0

Total fingerprints: 20

---- CUETools DB Plugin V2.1.6

==== Log checksum 8F99E16F684D866DE020981E287396810EEE8C81BEDE66DC48ABEC15A8F0B424 ====

------------------------------------------------------------

The good news is that when Alcohol 120% ripped now 28, no track was "no match" which means the tracks can at least be repaired using Cuetools parity data. Here's what ImgBurn now 28 BIN/CUE reports when mounted and ripped in EAC:

Exact Audio Copy V1.3 from 2. September 2016

EAC extraction logfile from 26. February 2018, 0:14

Various Artists / Now That's What I Call Music! Vol. 28

Used drive : Alcohol V-SATA CD/DVD Adapter: 1 ID: 2

Read mode : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache : Yes
Make use of C2 pointers : Yes

Read offset correction                      : 6
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : Yes
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000

Used output format              : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate                : 768 kBit/s
Quality                         : High
Add ID3 tag                     : No
Command line compressor         : C:\Program Files (x86)\Exact Audio Copy\FLAC\FLAC.EXE
Additional command line options : --best -V -T "ARTIST=%artist%" -T "TITLE=%title%" -T "ALBUM=%albumtitle%" -T "DATE=%year%" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%tracknr%" -T "GENRE=%genre%" -T "COMMENT=%comment%" -T "BAND=%albuminterpret%" -T "ALBUMARTIST=%albuminterpret%" -T "COMPOSER=%composer%" %haslyrics%--tag-from-file=LYRICS="%lyricsfile%"%haslyrics% -T "DISCNUMBER=%cdnumber%" -T "TOTALDISCS=%totalcds%" -T "TOTALTRACKS=%numtracks%" %hascover%--picture="%coverfile%"%hascover% %source% -o %dest%

TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1 | 0:00.00 | 3:57.54 |         0    |    17828
        2 | 3:57.54 | 3:13.05 |     17829    |    32308
        3 | 7:10.59 | 3:48.42 |     32309    |    49450
        4 | 10:59.26 | 4:07.04 |     49451    |    67979
        5 | 15:06.30 | 3:24.70 |     67980    |    83349
        6 | 18:31.25 | 4:11.55 |     83350    |   102229
        7 | 22:43.05 | 3:14.25 |    102230    |   116804
        8 | 25:57.30 | 3:01.10 |    116805    |   130389
        9 | 28:58.40 | 4:21.20 |    130390    |   149984
       10 | 33:19.60 | 4:02.57 |    149985    |   168191
       11 | 37:22.42 | 3:39.46 |    168192    |   184662
       12 | 41:02.13 | 3:46.01 |    184663    |   201613
       13 | 44:48.14 | 3:17.39 |    201614    |   216427
       14 | 48:05.53 | 2:57.44 |    216428    |   229746
       15 | 51:03.22 | 3:46.13 |    229747    |   246709
       16 | 54:49.35 | 3:24.53 |    246710    |   262062
       17 | 58:14.13 | 3:57.14 |    262063    |   279851
       18 | 62:11.27 | 3:25.08 |    279852    |   295234
       19 | 65:36.35 | 3:43.45 |    295235    |   312004
       20 | 69:20.05 | 3:21.25 |    312005    |   327104

Range status and errors

Selected range

Filename D:\music\TEST\Various Artists - Now That's What I Call Music! Vol. 28.wav

     Peak level 99.9 %
     Extraction speed 131.2 X
     Range quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 71DB33EB
     Copy OK

No errors occurred

AccurateRip summary

Track 1 accurately ripped (confidence 67) [D344FC72] (AR v2)
Track 2 accurately ripped (confidence 68) [C9FAEABD] (AR v2)
Track 3 accurately ripped (confidence 70) [A4666DD3] (AR v2)
Track 4 accurately ripped (confidence 70) [9610701E] (AR v2)
Track 5 accurately ripped (confidence 60) [06CFF97B] (AR v2)
Track 6 accurately ripped (confidence 69) [6C159D17] (AR v2)
Track 7 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 68) [383009E6], AccurateRip returned [F3234F76] (AR v2)
Track 8 accurately ripped (confidence 68) [bD41A8B4] (AR v2)
Track 9 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 66) [86596D57], AccurateRip returned [1C54843D] (AR v2)
Track 10 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 66) [658DC077], AccurateRip returned [C0434442] (AR v2)
Track 11 accurately ripped (confidence 66) [6CB674FE] (AR v2)
Track 12 accurately ripped (confidence 68) [C5AA596C] (AR v2)
Track 13 accurately ripped (confidence 67) [757A5DFB] (AR v2)
Track 14 accurately ripped (confidence 65) [0B458FFE] (AR v2)
Track 15 accurately ripped (confidence 69) [A1354B52] (AR v2)
Track 16 accurately ripped (confidence 65) [41162390] (AR v2)
Track 17 accurately ripped (confidence 63) [0E6DF7B5] (AR v2)
Track 18 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 68) [92E4C836], AccurateRip returned [80119D46] (AR v2)
Track 19 accurately ripped (confidence 67) [03FB2F9E] (AR v2)
Track 20 accurately ripped (confidence 53) [414CDECD] (AR v2)

16 track(s) accurately ripped
4 track(s) could not be verified as accurate

Some tracks could not be verified as accurate

End of status report

---- AcoustID Plugin V1.2.0

Total fingerprints: 20

---- CUETools DB Plugin V2.1.6

==== Log checksum 81233AA920A00BA5EF4ACF54904F2875327121A575E742AEB2FD79DF7486134A ====

now it looks like ImgBurn got a more accuraterip this time and Cuetools can even correct the errors.

Edited February 26, 2018 by toddgiffen

**LIGHTNING UK!** · February 26, 2018

Isn't all of that just down to the offset correction stuff? ImgBurn makes no attempt to correct any of that stuff - EAC obviously does as that's specifically what it's designed for.

Every drive has a specific offset it uses when reading, so although you would 2352 bytes of data to sector 0 or whatever, when you read them back you won't get the same 2352 bytes as the drive offsets where it reads from (something like that anyway!)

Would a virtual drive really need an offset applied to it? I'd have expected it to have a read offset of 0 as it's just reading from a file.

In any case, I very much doubt the differences are audible.

If your drive returns different data each time it's asked to read the sectors (which are then written to the BIN), that's its problem I'm afraid - although obviously that does you no favours! There's no real error correction built into a CDDA sector, so it'll just return what it wants to return.

All of that aside, weren't you just taking the tracks from EAC and adding the BIN you'd extracted with IsoBuster? How did that go or are you still waiting for some CD-R discs?

toddgiffen · February 27, 2018

Isn't all of that just down to the offset correction stuff? ImgBurn makes no attempt to correct any of that stuff - EAC obviously does as that's specifically what it's designed for.

Every drive has a specific offset it uses when reading, so although you would 2352 bytes of data to sector 0 or whatever, when you read them back you won't get the same 2352 bytes as the drive offsets where it reads from (something like that anyway!)

Would a virtual drive really need an offset applied to it? I'd have expected it to have a read offset of 0 as it's just reading from a file.

In any case, I very much doubt the differences are audible.

If your drive returns different data each time it's asked to read the sectors (which are then written to the BIN), that's its problem I'm afraid - although obviously that does you no favours! There's no real error correction built into a CDDA sector, so it'll just return what it wants to return.

All of that aside, weren't you just taking the tracks from EAC and adding the BIN you'd extracted with IsoBuster? How did that go or are you still waiting for some CD-R discs?

I don't know for sure man, but what I do know is EAC detected using AccurateRip database based on scanning my CD images that an image ripped with my drive by Alcohol/ImgBurn and mounted with Alcohol required an offset of +6 to be accurate. So the image itself has no offset applied, but to match the file with the ones in the online database, the files needed that +6 offset. This could be because image making software applied no offset for my drive, so the image was raw, and then EAC applied the necessary +6 offset to convert it to the accuraterip realm.

I uploaded the files. Alcohol is the only one that got this right for track 01 for example, see the alcohol track 01.wav in the alcohol folder (note: this wav was made using ISOBuster, so it has no offset applied, therefore in the foobar2000 bit comparator app it finds it needed to apply a 6 sample offset- if I made the rip through mounting and ripping with EAC this would already be done): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/19CW9rWqFuKZsQR2XWjfI6gpGCcnaAHns?usp=sharing

uploaded the bin/CUEs to show that huge amounts of samples are wrong. for example in ImgBurn for track 01, over 18000 samples are different requiring what is detected as an offset of 18000 to make it bit comparable to the EAC rip which was ripped with an offset of just 6.

the ISOBuster rip is the most busted. ISOBuster does not rip audio CD at all accurately, no tracks match, and the CUE is malformed missing index 00, ISRC, etc so some data will be missing from images made with ISOBuster. no amount of offset makes any ISOBuster track comparable to EAC rip under any circumstances.

Alcohol 120% cannot even mount the ISOBuster bin/cue of audio CDs because index 00 is missing from the CUE! this is why I extracted track 01 using ISOBuster from all the images for comparison, rather than mount and rip with EAC getting the necessary +06 offset applied.

Edited February 27, 2018 by toddgiffen

toddgiffen · February 27, 2018

I wanted to re-state audio CDs seem to read 100% accurately each rip using EAC burst mode which reads at 49x. rip a CD 5 times in a row it is accurate. no secure mode required which applies error correction and re reads.

it is only alcohol, ImgBurn, ISOBuster style apps that cannot read audio CD the same each rip. I suspect it is because of whatever read mode these apps use with a focus on data and so they use the wrong methods to read audio- even reducing the read speed to 1x/10x etc don't help. I am no pro I don't know what commands are used to read or nothing but the read method ie commands has to be different which may disable drive features or something. I know EAC uses MMC1 on my drive.

Edited February 27, 2018 by toddgiffen

**LIGHTNING UK!** · March 2, 2018

They're all just issuing the 'READ CD' command to the drive with a given lba start address and a transfer length. The drive should not be returning wildly different stuff - taking into account the lack of error correction.

As we (the 3 non EAC tools you've mentioned) have to deal with data too, most will set the 'expected sector type' field within that 'READ CD' command to 'all types'. EAC sets it to 'CDDA'... perhaps that allows the drive to perform a little bit of sanity checking? (EDIT: Tested that by editing my code, it doesn't)

There's nothing inherently wrong with what ImgBurn is doing (I haven't examined the other apps and therefore cannot speak for them), but yeah, the results from reading an Audio CD can differ every time. That may of course depend on the drive being used... each one behaves differently. (EDIT: It does, see below)

In my testing, you might get an odd sector or two that have different data. That's enough to give you a large number of different 'samples' I guess, even though you're only actually talking about a fraction of a second.

My 'LiteOn iHAS624 B GL2A' drive changes its mind on what it wants to return each time I read the disc I'm currently working with. Swap to my 'PIONEER BD-RW BDR-209M 1.34-ID60' and it returns a bit perfect copy of what EAC got from the LiteOn - with the exception of the offset stuff at the start/end of the disc. Make a 2nd image with the Pioneer and it matches the 1st one perfectly.

toddgiffen · March 3, 2018

thanks. glad to see an explanation on that other lite on drives make random reads of audio CDs. odd still you said there's no way to make ImgBurn read like EAC Burst Mode.. that sucker powers on through at 49x never stopping and perfect rip.. for you too right? anyway I emailed lite on tech support hoping maybe they fix it or check into it to make the drives read more reliably.

while iI got you here know of any current market drives that overread leadout and leadin?

Edited March 3, 2018 by toddgiffen

toddgiffen · March 3, 2018

https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?37706-CD-DVD-Drive-Accuracy-List-2016

this is the accuraterip 2016 DB. it lists the Lite-On iHAS124-14 W as the most accurate drive. I got the F version. I also have the iHAS324-17 F

surprised to see these lite on drives have so much trouble making accurate rips outside of dbPoweramp, foobar2000, EAC, and CUERIPPER...

definitely looking for a new drive ie lite on premium. you got one of those or two right lightning UK? how do those work and know if they support overread of leadout and leadin for EAC audio extraction? read your post in 2016 on myce about acquiring the new premium drives.

toddgiffen · March 3, 2018

https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?37706-CD-DVD-Drive-Accuracy-List-2016

this is the accuraterip 2016 DB. it lists the Lite-On iHAS124-14 W as the most accurate drive. I got the F version. I also have the iHAS324-17 F

surprised to see these lite on drives have so much trouble making accurate rips outside of dbPoweramp, foobar2000, EAC, and CUERIPPER...

definitely looking for a new drive ie lite on premium. you got one of those or two right lightning UK? how do those work and know if they support overread of leadout and leadin for EAC audio extraction? read your post in 2016 on myce about acquiring the new premium drives.

**LIGHTNING UK!** · March 3, 2018

The ‘liteon w’ isn’t actually a liteon at all, it’s based on optiarc technology.

I’ve swapped out my ageing ‘ihas624 b’ for a newer model mediatek chipset drive. It’s badged as a plextor but really it’s very much a liteon and supports all of the advanced features they do - hypertuning etc.

I’ve done 3 rips (of 10) so far for testing and it’s produced the same image each time... so it appears to be working as you’d expect a drive to.

Sorry, I’ve no idea about overread stuff, it’s not something I’ve concerned myself with.

toddgiffen · March 3, 2018

allegedly the plextor and optiarc AD-5290S Plus/PX-891SAF Plus and piodata on the market now are either ihas124-14 F/ihas324-17 F for none plus model or lite on premium

DH-16AFSH-Premm

drive for plus models with slightly custom firmware..

Asus is also ihas124/ihas324.

to test overread into leadout and leadin check the drive in EAC - drive options. disable use accuraterip. then manually detect the offset with a reference CD. during the checking for offset it will auto detect overread leadout and leadin support. most drives don't support it. this means those drives cannot under any circumstances accurately read an entire audio CD, some samples will always be missing (at the end or beginning of the disc- EAC fills those samples with silence by default unless option to not fill missing samples with silence is unticked. these samples are normally silence anyway but might not always be. accuraterip will return accuraterip even if the samples aren't accurate here because they cut those out from the calculation knowing most drives can't read those samples).

reference CDs http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/en/index.php/overview/basic-technology/list-of-included-reference-cds/

dbPoweramp might have more reference CDs if you don't have any of those ones.. apparently ripping a disc with the option to overread turned on will get dbPoweramp to report the drive doesn't support either or if the feature isn t supported. EAC might report inaccurate rips of first or last track with it on and the drive doesn't support it.. or like a sync or read error on last or first track or something..

remember to untick fill missing samples with silence and turn on overread to text or use the offset sample detection - to see how the drive performs. most likely dbPoweramp or read offset detection system best methods to verify drive is actually reading leadin or leadout.. someone on hydrogenaudio claims EAC doesn't always throw a sync error or inaccurate rip etc with it enabled and not otherwise overreading whether true or not.. on my set up it does seem to always throw a sync error on last track when enabled..

Edited March 3, 2018 by toddgiffen

**LIGHTNING UK!** · March 3, 2018

I believe you can test reading leadin/leadout quite easily in ImgBurn itself.

To test reading of the leadin, go into Read mode, open the sector viewer (disc icon in the Source box), tick the 'RAW' option and ensure it's on LBA 0. Now hit the back arrow button (LBA -1).

To test reading of the leadout, still in the sector viewer, hit the disc icon on the left and it'll go to the last sector on the disc. Now hit the forward arrow button.

Those two things will either work or give you an error.

As you can see from the images, the Plextor doesn't support it.

toddgiffen · March 4, 2018

I believe you can test reading leadin/leadout quite easily in ImgBurn itself.

To test reading of the leadin, go into Read mode, open the sector viewer (disc icon in the Source box), tick the 'RAW' option and ensure it's on LBA 0. Now hit the back arrow button (LBA -1).

2018-03-03_14-53-02.png

To test reading of the leadout, still in the sector viewer, hit the disc icon on the left and it'll go to the last sector on the disc. Now hit the forward arrow button.

2018-03-03_14-53-24.png

Those two things will either work or give you an error.

As you can see from the images, the Plextor doesn't support it.

alright well I've now done my basic investigation of the drives and read methods on the market. there's probably not any drives that can read this on the market today.. cause the Plextor drive that's supposed to be one of the highest end ones. not too many others to choose from on newegg - the market is smaller than it used to be.

Edited March 4, 2018 by toddgiffen

**LIGHTNING UK!** · March 4, 2018

Which kinda makes the whole ‘offset’ thing a bit of a waste of time. At some point, be it at the start or end of the disc, you’re missing real data and getting digital silence. It’s never going to be perfect.

As I said before, it’s a fraction of a second. In the case of the liteon, it’s 6 samples / 24 bytes.

2352 bytes (1 sector) is 1/75th of a second, so 24 bytes is 0.000136054421769 seconds.

Never in a million years will that make a difference.

toddgiffen · March 4, 2018

will keep my pursuit up with the vendors. I mean holy shit, why program their firmware/drives to not be able to read LBA -1 or at the lead-out? what kind of restriction is that.. prob won't be successful but whatever. one thing I know I'm not doing is buying all 10 drives sold on newegg and trying them all to get the one that works at least not this time around. maybe though. maybe that's what I got to do.

Edited March 4, 2018 by toddgiffen

toddgiffen · March 5, 2018

had a chance to use ImgBurn verify a WAV/BIN/CUE with session 2 ripped with ISOBuster and the audio image created with EAC- ImgBurn could not verify the audio (possibly due to offset issues as imgburn keeps whining about cd-da offset thing) nor the data but lets focus on the session 2 data track:

Mode                LastWriteTime         Length Name
----                -------------         ------ ----
d-----         3/4/2018   7:09 PM                Session 2
-a----         3/4/2018   7:09 PM      134125152 Britney Spears - ...Baby One More Time.bin
-a----         3/4/2018   7:15 PM           2710 Britney Spears - ...Baby One More Time.cue
-a----        2/24/2018   2:50 PM      311063416 Britney Spears - ...Baby One More Time.flac
-a----        2/24/2018   2:31 PM          17949 Britney Spears - ...Baby One More Time.jpg
-a----        2/24/2018   2:53 PM           8360 Britney Spears - ...Baby One More Time.log
-a----        2/24/2018   2:50 PM      451370012 Britney Spears - ...Baby One More Time.wav

REM GENRE Pop
REM DATE 1999
REM DISCID 970D8F0C
REM COMMENT "ExactAudioCopy v1.3"
PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
TITLE "...Baby One More Time"
REM COMPOSER ""
FILE "Britney Spears - ...Baby One More Time.wav" WAVE
REM SESSION 01
TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE "...Baby One More Time"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19810404
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
    REM MSF: 00:00:00 = LBA: 0
TRACK 02 AUDIO
    TITLE "(You Drive Me) Crazy"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910451
    INDEX 00 03:30:53
    INDEX 01 03:31:22
    REM MSF: 03:31:22 = LBA: 15847
TRACK 03 AUDIO
    TITLE "Sometimes"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910452
    INDEX 00 06:49:29
    INDEX 01 06:51:34
    REM MSF: 06:51:34 = LBA: 30859
TRACK 04 AUDIO
    TITLE "Soda Pop"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910453
    INDEX 00 10:56:38
    INDEX 01 10:57:45
    REM MSF: 10:57:45 = LBA: 49320
TRACK 05 AUDIO
    TITLE "Born To Make You Happy"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910454
    INDEX 00 14:18:11
    INDEX 01 14:19:54
    REM MSF: 14:19:54 = LBA: 64479
TRACK 06 AUDIO
    TITLE "From The Bottom Of My Broken Heart"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910455
    INDEX 00 18:23:22
    INDEX 01 18:24:65
    REM MSF: 18:24:65 = LBA: 82865
TRACK 07 AUDIO
    TITLE "I Will Be There"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910456
    INDEX 00 23:36:20
    INDEX 01 23:37:32
    REM MSF: 23:37:32 = LBA: 106307
TRACK 08 AUDIO
    TITLE "I Will Still Love You (Duet With Don Philips)"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910457
    INDEX 00 27:30:62
    INDEX 01 27:32:29
    REM MSF: 27:32:29 = LBA: 123929
TRACK 09 AUDIO
    TITLE "Thinkin' About You"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910458
    INDEX 00 31:35:26
    INDEX 01 31:36:17
    REM MSF: 31:36:17 = LBA: 142217
TRACK 10 AUDIO
    TITLE "E-Mail My Heart"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910459
    INDEX 00 35:10:39
    INDEX 01 35:12:47
    REM MSF: 35:12:47 = LBA: 158447
TRACK 11 AUDIO
    TITLE "The Beat Goes On"
    PERFORMER "Britney Spears"
    REM COMPOSER ""
    ISRC USJI19910460
    INDEX 00 38:54:56
    INDEX 01 38:55:54
    REM MSF: 38:55:54 = LBA: 175179

REM LEAD-OUT 42:38:59

FILE "Britney Spears - ...Baby One More Time.bin" BINARY
REM SESSION 02
TRACK 12 MODE2/2352
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
    REM MSF: 45:10:59 = LBA: 203309

but when comparing this mother fucker here is what it says,

Miscompare at LBA: 203327, Offset: 2096

Device: 0xF7
Image File: 0x00

Total Errors in Sector: 225

Would you like to continue verifying the remainder of the disc?

Miscompare at LBA: 203343, Offset: 2096, File: \RUNME16.EXE

Device: 0x10
Image File: 0x00
Total Errors in Sector: 253

Would you like to continue verifying the remainder of the disc?

Miscompare at LBA: 203407, Offset: 2096, File: \RUNME16.EXE

Device: 0x00
Image File: 0x60
Total Errors in Sector: 255

Would you like to continue verifying the remainder of the disc?

Miscompare at LBA: 203423, Offset: 2096, File: \RUNME16.EXE

Device: 0x8E
Image File: 0x60
Total Errors in Sector: 253

Would you like to continue verifying the remainder of the disc?
... like a million errors in the ImgBurn.log

so then I changed the above CUE sheet to

FILE "IsoBuster\BRITNEY.bin" BINARY
REM SESSION 02
TRACK 12 MODE2/2352
INDEX 01 45:10:59
REM MSF: 45:10:59 = LBA: 203309

and ripped the entire disc with ISObuster - the ISOBuster app rips the audio all wrong, and there's some differences in the BIN that the developer are changing, but the data verified correctly using the above image to the disc.

I 22:35:40 Operation Started!
I 22:35:40 Source Device: [0:0:0] ATAPI iHAS324 F CL8M (E:) (USB)
I 22:35:40 Source Media Type: CD-ROM
I 22:35:40 Source Media Supported Read Speeds: 10x, 16x, 24x, 32x, 40x, 48x
I 22:35:40 Source Media Supported Write Speeds: 48x
I 22:35:40 Source Media Sectors: 260,335
I 22:35:40 Source Media Size: 612,307,920 bytes
I 22:35:40 Image File: D:\music\Britney Spears\...Baby One More Time\Britney Spears - ...Baby One More Time.cue
I 22:35:40 Image File Sectors: 260,335 (AUDIO/2352)
I 22:35:40 Image File Size: 612,307,920 bytes
I 22:35:40 Image File Volume Identifier: BRITNEY
I 22:35:40 Image File Application Identifier: TOAST ISO 9660 BUILDER COPYRIGHT © 1997 ADAPTEC, INC. - HAVE A NICE DAY
I 22:35:40 Image File File System(s): ISO9660
I 22:35:40 Read Speed (Data/Audio): MAX / MAX
I 22:35:40 Hardware Read Error Retries: 3
I 22:35:51 Read Speed - Effective: 48x
I 22:35:51 Verifying Session 1 of 2... (11 Tracks, LBA: 0 - 191908)
I 22:35:51 Verifying Track 1 of 11... (AUDIO/2352, WAVE, LBA: 0 - 15802, ISRC: USJI19810404)
I 22:36:27 Verifying Track 2 of 11... (AUDIO/2352, WAVE, LBA: 15803 - 30703, ISRC: USJI19910451)
I 22:36:36 Verifying Track 3 of 11... (AUDIO/2352, WAVE, LBA: 30704 - 49237, ISRC: USJI19910452)
I 22:36:47 Verifying Track 4 of 11... (AUDIO/2352, WAVE, LBA: 49238 - 64360, ISRC: USJI19910453)
I 22:36:55 Verifying Track 5 of 11... (AUDIO/2352, WAVE, LBA: 64361 - 82746, ISRC: USJI19910454)
I 22:37:04 Verifying Track 6 of 11... (AUDIO/2352, WAVE, LBA: 82747 - 106219, ISRC: USJI19910455)
I 22:37:15 Verifying Track 7 of 11... (AUDIO/2352, WAVE, LBA: 106220 - 123811, ISRC: USJI19910456)
I 22:37:23 Verifying Track 8 of 11... (AUDIO/2352, WAVE, LBA: 123812 - 142150, ISRC: USJI19910457)
I 22:37:31 Verifying Track 9 of 11... (AUDIO/2352, WAVE, LBA: 142151 - 158288, ISRC: USJI19910458)
I 22:37:37 Verifying Track 10 of 11... (AUDIO/2352, WAVE, LBA: 158289 - 175105, ISRC: USJI19910459)
I 22:37:44 Verifying Track 11 of 11... (AUDIO/2352, WAVE, LBA: 175106 - 191908, ISRC: USJI19910460)
I 22:37:50 Verifying Session 2 of 2... (1 Track, LBA: 203309 - 260334)
I 22:37:50 Verifying Track 1 of 1... (MODE2/FORM1/2352, LBA: 203309 - 260334)
I 22:38:12 Exporting Graph Data...
I 22:38:12 Graph Data File: C:\Users\wiseg\AppData\Roaming\ImgBurn\Graph Data Files\ATAPI_iHAS324_F_CL8M_SUNDAY-MARCH-4-2018_10-35_PM_N-A.ibg
I 22:38:12 Export Successfully Completed!
I 22:38:12 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:02:30
I 22:38:12 Average Verify Rate: 4,301 KiB/s (21.7x) - Maximum Verify Rate: 16,529 KiB/s (83.5x)

Edited March 5, 2018 by toddgiffen

toddgiffen · March 5, 2018

anyway to remove this from the log

W 22:03:56 Note: The drive probably offset the audio samples - this is common with CD-DA tracks.

is this true if you make the bin/cue with imgburn using the same drive, then verify it with imgburn, there's offset differences if ImgBurn didn't do any offset correction? anyway to enter the offset, ie +6, like EAC?

Edited March 5, 2018 by toddgiffen

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