Where is my Layer Break sector ?

[konst]

Hi!

I've prepared DL-image by Scenarist and set the layer break at cell#13.

After compiling the image, Scenarist's discinfo.ifo had line: l a y e r 0 _ s i z e = 2 0 2 7 9 6 8.

I've set 2027968 to ImfBurn>Settings>Write>Options>Layer Break>User Specified field. Then I changed my mind. I've decided to test the seamless LB and I've selected "Build mode" in the ImgBurn. Before burning I've selected the same cell#13 from the list, suggested by ImfBurn, and "Seamless" from Options. In this box ImgBurn have told me, that Cell#13 will be locate at LBA #2027952.

 

This is a log:

 

I 23:00:26 ImgBurn Version 2.1.0.0 started!

I 23:00:26 Microsoft Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600 : Service Pack 2)

W 23:00:26 Drive C:\ (FAT32) does not support single files > 4 GB

I 23:00:26 Initialising SPTI...

I 23:00:26 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...

I 23:00:26 Found 1 CD-RW, 4 DVD-ROMs and 1 DVD?RW!

I 23:04:11 Operation Started!

I 23:04:11 Building Image Tree...

I 23:04:11 Checking Directory Depth...

I 23:04:11 Calculating Totals...

I 23:04:11 Preparing Image...

E 23:04:27 Operation Aborted! - Duration: 00:00:15

I 23:06:33 Operation Started!

I 23:06:33 Building Image Tree...

I 23:06:33 Checking Directory Depth...

I 23:06:33 Calculating Totals...

I 23:06:33 Preparing Image...

I 23:07:15 Using Layer Break LBA: 2027942 -> 2027952 (VTS_01, PGC: 1, Cell: 13, Vob/Cell ID: 1/13, Time: 01:16:12, SPLIP: No -> Yes)

I 23:07:15 Checking Path Length...

I 23:07:15 Image Size: 7 728 267 264 bytes

I 23:07:15 Image Sectors: 3 773 568

I 23:07:19 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:00:46

I 23:07:19 Operation Started!

I 23:07:19 Source File: -==/\/[bUILD IMAGE]\/\==-

I 23:07:19 Source File Sectors: 3 773 568 (MODE1/2048)

I 23:07:19 Source File Size: 7 728 267 264 bytes

I 23:07:19 Source File Volume Identifier: XXX

I 23:07:19 Source File Application Identifier: IMGBURN V2.1.0.0 - THE ULTIMATE IMAGE BURNER!

I 23:07:19 Source File Implementation Identifier: ImgBurn

I 23:07:19 Source File File System(s): ISO9660; UDF (1.02)

I 23:07:19 Destination Device: [1:0:0] _NEC DVD_RW ND-2510A 2.18 (G:) (ATA)

I 23:07:19 Destination Media Type: DVD+R DL (Disc ID: RITEK-D01-01) (Speeds: 2,4x)

I 23:07:19 Destination Media Sectors: 4 173 824

I 23:07:19 Write Mode: DVD

I 23:07:19 Write Type: DAO

I 23:07:19 Write Speed: 2,4x

I 23:07:19 Link Size: Auto

I 23:07:19 Test Mode: No

I 23:07:19 BURN-Proof: Enabled

I 23:07:19 User Specified L0 Data Zone Capacity: 2 027 968

I 23:07:41 Filling Buffer...

I 23:07:42 Writing LeadIn...

I 23:07:44 Writing Image...

I 23:07:44 Writing Layer 0... (LBA: 0 - 2027967)

I 23:27:52 Writing Layer 1... (LBA: 2027968 - 3773567)

I 23:45:15 Synchronising Cache...

I 23:45:16 Closing Track...

I 23:45:31 Finalising Disc...

I 23:49:09 Image MD5: dcc8a9e94441db2a8e78c225697ff637

I 23:49:11 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:41:50

I 23:49:11 Average Write Rate: 3 354 KB/s (2.4x) - Maximum Write Rate: 3 473 KB/s (2.5x)

I'm very confused by different info in the log:

1) I 23:07:15 Using Layer Break LBA: 2027942 -> 2027952 (VTS_01, PGC: 1, Cell: 13, Vob/Cell ID: 1/13, Time: 01:16:12, SPLIP: No -> Yes)

2) I 23:27:52 Writing Layer 1... (LBA: 2027968 - 3773567)

 

What the hell?

Where is layer break, at 2027952 or 2027968 ?

Is manually set LB in "Setting" have effect to Build mode ?

 

Your old program displays info for this burned disk:

Layer Information:

Layer 0 Sectors: 2 027 968 (53,74%)

Layer 1 Sectors: 1 745 600 (46,26%)

 

But VOBEdit have displayed me, that cell's#13 first nav' pack located at 2027952 and LBA #2027968 contains nothing good.

Burned disk plays fine in my old enough Panasonic standalone.

 

Furthermore, I've created new image by your old program from this burned disk. Then I've selected ImgBurn>Tools>ISO>Display IFO Layer Break information and loaded newimage.mds. "Potential Layer Break Positions" box displays me LBA #2027952.

 

Where is my Layer Break sector ?

 

Thanks.

[blutach]

Sounds like there's 16 sectors of padding. According to the log, it breaks at 2,027,968

 

Note - there is no need to specify an L0 landing zone for +R disks.

 

Regards

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Don't mess with the layerbreak stuff in the settings, it should be on Automatic.

 

From my side of things, I need to ensure that info is not used in build mode. Thanks for being the first person to try it! lol

 

EDIT: Ok, I had actually already taken care of that in something else I'd put in for the next release.

[konst]

blutach

Thanks for quick reply.

 

According to the log, it breaks at 2,027,968

But, as I wrote, VOBEdit displays me, that LBA #2027968 contains nothing good.

Once I burned +R DL by ROMFormater. I've set LB incorrectly and my player have crashed on 2-nd layer.

 

Sounds like there's 16 sectors of padding.

Menu-domain in my scenario contains media-content and don't need to padding.

Moreover, IsoBuster displays me no padding.

Note - there is no need to specify an L0 landing zone for +R disks.

Sorry, I don't understood this.

I don't have mds-file when I burn Scenarist's image and I set LB manually for +R DL always. Is it wrong ?

Do I need to set "Calculate Optimal" in the Setting for +R DL always ?

 

 

LIGHTNING UK!

Thanks for reply!

So, is LB located in LBA #2027968 ?

If this true, I'm very confused by my standalone :-)

Since this LBA contains:

 

But LBA #2027952 contains:

[LIGHTNING UK!]

2027952 is what Build mode (via the layer break window) wanted it to be - and the image was created based around this value.

 

Your 'user specified' value of 2027968 is what it was actually set to - because it overrides any other existing value.

 

You need to leave the layer break option on 'Calculate Optimal' or else the value calculated internally by build mode will never be used.

[konst]

Thanks a lot for good explanation !

 

May be I've made an error during calculations and you will point to it.

This is IsoBuster's screenshot:

 

VOB with LB is selected on screenshot.

I know exactly, my stanalone don't play disks, burned by Nero in DVD-ROM preset.

 

What do you think, theoretically my player can to play fine DL with such wry LB ?

Moment of transition to 2-nd layer proved to absolutely invisible !

 

Thanks.

 

P.S. Sorry for my English. This is my not native language and I don't never speak it :-)

[LIGHTNING UK!]

The idea of the layer break dialog in ImgBurn's Build mode is that *you* don't need to calculate anything.

 

You just select the appropriate cell and the rest is taken care of automatically.

 

The *automatically* part is being messed up because you don't have 'Calculate Optimal' specified in the settings.

 

You should put it back to 'Calculate Optimal' and just let Build mode deal with it all. It's the only way you'll get a disc built with the physical layer break lined up with a cell correctly.

[konst]

I learned a lesson well.

Up to now I've burned several +R DL exactly so, as you instruct me. I left 'user specified' value accidentally.

At first I wanted to burn Scenarist's image wiht LB LBA, calculated by Scenarist. Then I've changed my mind, but don't changed settings to 'automatic'.

 

I wanted to understand, is my Panasonic such undemanding, or I have faulty reasoning ?

I thought such wry LB is gross violation of spec, but .. it is a Panasonic :-)

 

Thanks a lot in any case! And especially thanks for you BEST burning software !

[blutach]

The only time to use "User Specified", IMO, is if you build the image already - eg in PgcEdit with mkisofs and you just wanna burn. In that case, I know PgcEdit passes the LB info on thru this setting. But do ensure it is turned back to "optimal" later.

 

Also, looking back at my first post - it was kinda silly (this is not unusual ). Inserting 16 sectors of padding is useless, since the original LBA would be a multiple of 16.

 

Regards

[LIGHTNING UK!]

PgcEdit doesn't do it that way now, it uses the CLI parameter. (I'm sure you already knew that!)

 

The CLI one is totally separate to the option in the settings.

[blutach]

@LUK!

 

Before pressing "burn", I used to check what the LB looked like (nervous nellie that I am). It had written to that field (via CLI). I guess after closing the prog, the settings revert to calc optimal?

 

Regards

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Since r0lZ switched to using CLI, that value should not have ever been changed. The CLI switch doesn't alter that value (even if it was then reset when the program closed).

 

So unless r0lZ is still doing both on purpose - the CLI one and manually editing the registry values - there is a glitch in his program.

 

As I understand it, r0lZ doesn't touch the registry values any more and everything is done via CLI. Some CLI things update the settings when ImgBurn is closed (because they directly edit GUI stuff and that's just how the program works) but the layer break is not one of them. Of course he could now use /NOSAVESETTINGS to get around the whole 'save settings' thing.

 

If LB has been specified via CLI, it's not visible anywhere in the GUI for 'checking'. You only see the used value when you actually burn.

 

It's entirely possible to have the user value in the settings set at one thing and CLI at another. The CLI value will always be used.

[blutach]

It's been a while since I've used PgcEdit to burn and he may well have changed things a bit. Thanks for the info.

 

Regards

[konst]

The only time to use "User Specified", IMO, is if you build the image already - eg in PgcEdit with mkisofs and you just wanna burn. In that case, I know PgcEdit passes the LB info on thru this setting. But do ensure it is turned back to "optimal" later.

What is a difference between images, created by PgcEdit and by Scenarist ?

Until now I burned many times Scenarist's image by old program. Scenarist's log contains LB LBA and I inserted this value into appropriate field. And I don't had any problems.

 

Also, looking back at my first post - it was kinda silly (this is not unusual biggrin.gif). Inserting 16 sectors of padding is useless, since the original LBA would be a multiple of 16.

As I understand, spec requires 32K padding in order to IFO and BUP files lay in the different ECC blocks.

 

P.S. I'm still very confused by situation and look any others method to verify, where is LB physically located on this burned disk. I'll be grateful for any help.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Is Scenarist actually making the ISO image?

 

It seems to me as if you're using the LB it provides and then using ImgBurn in build mode to burn the IFO/VOB/BUP files. Build mode makes Scenarist's LB value totally useless as it's down to me where I add padding or don't!

 

You could only use its LB value if it makes the ISO image and you then just burn that in ImgBurn's Write mode.

 

As for the differences between Scenarist ISO files and PgcEdit ones, well that's all down to the filesystem formatting tool. Scenarist will use its own one, PgcEdit uses mkisofs. The images will be different on a 'byte' level but content / end user wise they're be the same.

 

Layer Information:

Layer 0 Sectors: 2 027 968 (53,74%)

Layer 1 Sectors: 1 745 600 (46,26%)

That shows your layerbreak. It's at LBA 2027968.

That's the PHYSICAL layer break - remember the LB is a physical thing.

 

I 23:07:15 Using Layer Break LBA: 2027942 -> 2027952 (VTS_01, PGC: 1, Cell: 13, Vob/Cell ID: 1/13, Time: 01:16:12, SPLIP: No -> Yes)

 

The IFO files however are set so the cell at LBA 2027952 should be the very first thing on Layer 1.

 

Of course the two do not match so some players would probably fall over and die at the LB point. You're lucky yours doesn't.

 

 

So in future, forget about the LB mentioned by Scenarist unless Scenarist is/has made the actual ISO file.

 

Also, make sure you put that setting in ImgBurn back on 'Calculate Optimal'.

[blutach]

As I understand, spec requires 32K padding in order to IFO and BUP files lay in the different ECC blocks.

A sector is 2k, so 16 sectors = 32k

 

Regards

[konst]

Probably my bad English don't allows me to describe clearly my thoughts :-(

 

Yes, this time, when my LB-question has occurred, I burned VIDEO_TS folder, which was created by Scenarist. Yes, this time I burned in ImgBurn's 'Build mode' and I've don't changed setting in ImgBurn back on 'Calculate Optimal'.

I've understood, that my 'user specified' value overrides value, which I've selected from layer break dialog in ImgBurn's Build mode.

I know, that LB sector is a phisical place on the disk, where laser is refocussed to 2-nd layer.

I understand, that logical sector of the LB-cell is predetermined in the image and burning sofware must to refocus a laser to 2-nd layer in the exactly determined place.

I've understood very well my mistake.

 

But until ImgBurn v2.1.0.0 was released, I often burned ISO images, has been created by Scenarist. I burned this images by DVDDecrypter's 'ISO>Write mode' and putted LB-value, which was taken from Scenarist's log, into 'settings>ISO write mode>options>layer break>user specified' field. I think, in such a way I'm guaranteed, that my disks will play in future on the my any new players. Because I heard from many people, that Scenarist is a "gold standart" of the authoring system.

I looked by VOBEdit to Scenarist's LB-nav' pack and saw, that it's SCR is unusual, it is unlike to non-LB nav' packs.

Also I saw, that Scenarist always adds in the it's image 32k gap before BUP, even through between IFO and BUP abounds with many VOBs. Although most probably this is it's caprice.

 

Now I test excellent burn software, especially it's 'Build mode', but I think, I must to select the same cell what I select in the Scenarist's 'Dual Layer editor'. I think this is a most reliable way to make fully compatible to spec disk.

 

Now I'm sure, that my Panasonic is very undemanding to spec.

 

Thanks a lot for such detailed explanations.