DrTeeth Posted December 5, 2006 Posted December 5, 2006 I have searched th forums but have not come across an answer. I use DVD+RWs. I have previously burnt images with Nero...a blank disc rquires minimal formatting (<1 min) before burning starts. With ImgBurn, the same disk has to be formatted and it takes about 5 mins, before the image can be burnt. I cannot even to a quick format of a disc previosuly used in Nero. Why is this? I cannot keep two sets of discs for two programs...it's nuts <g>. What's the reason for this?
LIGHTNING UK! Posted December 5, 2006 Posted December 5, 2006 ImgBurn defaults to wanting properly formatted media - once formatted properly, it'll read 'Formatted: Yes' in the info panel on the right. If it doesn't say that, it's not properly formatted. Once formatted properly ImgBurn doesn't need to format / erase the media before you write to it, it'll just perform what's known as 'Direct Overwrite'. If another program messes up the format then I'm afraid that is its problem, not really ImgBurns.
blutach Posted December 6, 2006 Posted December 6, 2006 If I had a dollar for every time this question has been asked, I'd be a millionaire. Where's my "use search" graphic? Regards
DrTeeth Posted December 6, 2006 Author Posted December 6, 2006 (edited) ImgBurn defaults to wanting properly formatted media - once formatted properly, it'll read 'Formatted: Yes' in the info panel on the right. If it doesn't say that, it's not properly formatted. Once formatted properly ImgBurn doesn't need to format / erase the media before you write to it, it'll just perform what's known as 'Direct Overwrite'. If another program messes up the format then I'm afraid that is its problem, not really ImgBurns. If other programs can write to a disc without a tedious format *without* problems, why does ImgBurn insist on it? Looks like enforced incompatibility/willy-waving to me as there is no advantage for the end-user. Edited December 6, 2006 by DrTeeth
DrTeeth Posted December 6, 2006 Author Posted December 6, 2006 (edited) If I had a dollar for every time this question has been asked, I'd be a millionaire. Where's my "use search" graphic? Regards I searched several times, honest to God, cross my heart and hope to die . Edited December 6, 2006 by DrTeeth
Kenadjian Posted December 6, 2006 Posted December 6, 2006 If other programs can write to a disc without a tedious format *without* problems, why does ImgBurn insist on it? Looks like enforced incompatibility/willy-waving to me as there is no advantage for the end-user. At the risk of sounding harsh, which I don't mean to be, just because other apps choose to do "half a job" does not mean it's the right way of doing things. There is a right way, and a wrong way, ImgBurn chooses to do it the right way, so, no willy-waving here.
LIGHTNING UK! Posted December 6, 2006 Posted December 6, 2006 If you have a real problem with it (which obviously you do), just turn off the 'perfer properly formatted +rw' option in the settings.
DrTeeth Posted December 6, 2006 Author Posted December 6, 2006 If you have a real problem with it (which obviously you do), just turn off the 'perfer properly formatted +rw' option in the settings. Thanks for that tip. It is not so much a problem that I have, it's just wanting to know "why". Nero formats the disc in < 1minute and the disc plays in every device I have. Use ImgBurn, says disc is not formatted, and takes 5 mins to do a 'proper' format. What is the advantage of the 'proper' format c.f. the Nero 'improper' one? TIA.
DrTeeth Posted December 6, 2006 Author Posted December 6, 2006 (edited) At the risk of sounding harsh, which I don't mean to be, just because other apps choose to do "half a job" does not mean it's the right way of doing things. There is a right way, and a wrong way, ImgBurn chooses to do it the right way, so, no willy-waving here. If the "half a job/wrong way" works just as well (for me at least) as the "proper" way, could you please tell me what advantage the proper format has? I really want to know...I'm not trying to be 'funny'. Edited December 6, 2006 by DrTeeth
DrTeeth Posted December 8, 2006 Author Posted December 8, 2006 What is the advantage of the 'proper' format c.f. the Nero 'improper' one? Pretty please...
LIGHTNING UK! Posted December 8, 2006 Posted December 8, 2006 If we knew, we'd answer. They made the 'Formatted : Yes' state available (as documented in the MMC specs at http://www.t10.org ), I try and use it. That's all there is to it. It's not a problem for ImgBurn users because it stays formatted once formatted and you needn't do it again. It's only when you involve some other program that clears the 'formatted' state that it becomes an issue. Feel free to contact some drive manufacturers and ask them what the difference is. Please do report back if you get a response from them.
Kenadjian Posted December 8, 2006 Posted December 8, 2006 At the risk of sounding harsh, which I don't mean to be, just because other apps choose to do "half a job" does not mean it's the right way of doing things. There is a right way, and a wrong way, ImgBurn chooses to do it the right way, so, no willy-waving here. If the "half a job/wrong way" works just as well (for me at least) as the "proper" way, could you please tell me what advantage the proper format has? I really want to know...I'm not trying to be 'funny'. Not directly related, however, here goes. You take your car to a mechanic for a service, he changes the engine oil, but fails to change the filter (containing about a litre of the old shitty oil) he then refills it with new oil. Result: HALF A JOB. To the driver of the car, no real difference in performance or anything else. This would also be true for many other things in life, doing half jobs work fine for a lot of people, however they do pay for it in some form or another in the long term.
dbminter Posted December 8, 2006 Posted December 8, 2006 I loaded some older DVD+RW discs that I've no idea what created them. ImgBurn wanted an erase on them, I forget full or not, because their format status was only listed as Started. So, what exactly does Started mean? IMO, a format either is started, formatting, done, or none.
LIGHTNING UK! Posted December 8, 2006 Posted December 8, 2006 lol they're the exact states a format can be in. Formatted: No Formatted: No (Started) Formatted: No (In Progress) Formatted: Yes No = It hasn't been done at all - the disc is brand spanking new. No (Started) = An application started doing it but then terminated the format before it actually finished. No (In Progress) = This obviously means it's formatting at that precise moment. Yes = Erm... you need me to explain this?!
dbminter Posted December 8, 2006 Posted December 8, 2006 lol they're the exact states a format can be in. Formatted: No (Started) Formatted: No (In Progress) No (Started) = An application started doing it but then terminated the format before it actually finished. Yes = Erm... you need me to explain this?! Yes, PLEASE! I is an idiot! About the Started one. Does a Started one need to completely fully formatted? Or, can a Started format be resumed or use a Quick Erase?
LIGHTNING UK! Posted December 8, 2006 Posted December 8, 2006 You can resume them, yes. I don't bother though. Less chance of things going wrong if you just start from scratch - I'm also not really sure it would save much time, never tried it! The 'started' one is the status of limbo that most apps seem to leave the disc in. A quick erase is not like a format. Formatting has an actual command associated with it. A quick erase (for DVD+RW anyway) is really down to the program. I just overwrite the first few hundred sectors with zeroes via the normal 'write' command - as would be used when burning normal data to the disc. The 'format' is a command issued to the drive. The drive then goes off and does whatever the programmers of the firmware told it to do. Writing to sectors (i.e. via quick erase) has no effect on the 'formatted' status - that can only be changed via the 'format' command.
dbminter Posted December 9, 2006 Posted December 9, 2006 Why do these discs need to be formatted, anyway? I mean, what is it about formatting and why don't the manufacturers do it?
dbminter Posted December 9, 2006 Posted December 9, 2006 While that is true, what about, then, the trend to eventually release floppy disks already formatted?
DrTeeth Posted December 9, 2006 Author Posted December 9, 2006 (edited) At the risk of sounding harsh, which I don't mean to be, just because other apps choose to do "half a job" does not mean it's the right way of doing things. There is a right way, and a wrong way, ImgBurn chooses to do it the right way, so, no willy-waving here. If the "half a job/wrong way" works just as well (for me at least) as the "proper" way, could you please tell me what advantage the proper format has? I really want to know...I'm not trying to be 'funny'. Not directly related, however, here goes. You take your car to a mechanic for a service, he changes the engine oil, but fails to change the filter (containing about a litre of the old shitty oil) he then refills it with new oil. Result: HALF A JOB. To the driver of the car, no real difference in performance or anything else. This would also be true for many other things in life, doing half jobs work fine for a lot of people, however they do pay for it in some form or another in the long term. It's all very well yourself and others saying that the Nero format is 'half a job' and the ImgBurn one is a proper one without being able to tell what its advantages/disadvantages are. I CAN, however, tell you *exactly* what the consequences are of your 'half-a-job' example. I am at a loss however, to explain how they translate to a DVD+RW disc . Even the author of ImgBurn does not know, "If we knew, we'd answer". Edited December 9, 2006 by DrTeeth
DrTeeth Posted December 9, 2006 Author Posted December 9, 2006 lol they're the exact states a format can be in. Formatted: No No = It hasn't been done at all - the disc is brand spanking new. Not quite . This can also mean has been formatted by another program, that Imgburn does not recognise in its default configuration . My Nero formatted discs work 110% with ImgBurn if I disable the 'proper format' option you mentioned earlier in the thread.
LIGHTNING UK! Posted December 9, 2006 Posted December 9, 2006 Yes quite. These values are nothing to do with ImgBurn recognising anything, it's to do with your drive recognising it. ImgBurn queries the drive to get the current 'Formatted' status (amongst other things) and displays the result in the info window on the right. If it says 'Formatted: No', the drives initialisation sequence (i.e. done internally by the firmware) has determined the disc hasn't ever been formatted. Where the 'prefer properly formatted DVD+RW' option comes in is where ImgBurn will attempt to perform a full format on any media where the drive does not report 'Formatted: Yes'. If you uncheck that option it will only perform a full format if it says 'Formatted: No' - i.e. you just took the shrink wrap off the disc and tried to burn it. When it just says 'No' (i.e. not 'No (Started)' or 'No (In Progress)') you HAVE to format the media. There are no two ways about it. Any attempt at sending a 'Write' command will just fail with an error saying the media isn't formatted. Where I (within ImgBurn) would issue that 'Format' command and wait for it to totally finish, other programs might just issue it and then start writing data straight away. That's why those programs never leave the disc in a 'Formatted: Yes' state, but ImgBurn does. Each to their own. Even the author of ImgBurn does not know, "If we knew, we'd answer". Yes, I can plug leads into a monitor too... doesn't mean I know what it's doing internally. As I said, ask the drive manufacturers.
xen-uno Posted March 6, 2007 Posted March 6, 2007 UK ... The highlights of your responses ought to go in the FAQ. I also was wondering why +RW's wanted to go through a format, while the other progs I've used (RecordNowMax, Nero, ECDC) are near instantaneous. I understand now.
Rippraff Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 ImgBurn queries the drive to get the current 'Formatted' status (amongst other things) and displays the result in the info window on the right. LUK!, did you kick this information in current in 2.2.0.0? I can't find anything in the info window saying 'Formatted: Yes' or 'No'. Cu Rippraff
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