mwja627 Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 Hi I am having a problem playing the discs I burned in my stand alone dvd player. I used imgburn followed the instructions in the guide got it to burn from iso into video and audio ts folders automatically program converted it but when i put it in the dvd player it says it cant play dvd. I named the disced in the udf and file name lets say house for example is what i named it in the udf and file name boxes. Im i missing a step I used to be able to get them to play with dvd decypter but its been a long time since i backed up a movie I think im just overlooking a step but I cant figure it out as I followed the guide Completly. Thanks In Advance J.T.
LIGHTNING UK! Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 When you put the disc in your PC, does it have a VIDEO_TS folder if you look at it via 'My Computer' / 'Explorer' ? It's always helpful if you post your full log of the burn / verify. It saves us guessing lots of stuff.
mwja627 Posted April 11, 2007 Author Posted April 11, 2007 Yes it burns with a video ts and audio ts folder 26 files 2 folders downloaded 6 minutes is what it said and when you explore the disc it is only the video ts and audio ts folder Thanks J.T.
LIGHTNING UK! Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 So what files do you see in the VIDEO_TS folder? Can you play the disc on your PC? Maybe your TV's DVD player just doesn't like the media you're using?
lfcrule1972 Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 Is it possible for you to post a copy of the log file in question ? ImgBurn saves them for you Help>ImgBurn Logs and then you can copy/paste it up here for us to take a look at !
mwja627 Posted April 12, 2007 Author Posted April 12, 2007 Here is the log file Memorex DVD+-RAM 525G v1 G.01 (ATA) Current Profile: DVD-R Disc Information: Status: Complete Erasable: No Sessions: 1 Sectors: 2,286,035 Size: 4,681,799,680 bytes Time: 508:02:35 (MM:SS:FF) Supported Write Speeds: 4x, 8x, 12x, 16x TOC Information: Session 1... -> Track 01 (Mode 1, LBA: 0 - 2286034) -> LeadOut (LBA: 2286035) Pre-recorded Information: Manufacturer ID: CMC MAG. AM3 Recording Management Area Information: Memorex DVD+-RAM 525G v1 Physical Format Information (Last Recorded): Disc ID: 0@P-!-00 Book Type: DVD-R Part Version: 5 Disc Size: 120mm Maximum Read Rate: Not Specified Number of Layers: 1 Track Path: Parallel Track Path (PTP) Linear Density: 0.267 um/bit Track Density: 0.74 um/track First Physical Sector of Data Area: 196,608 Last Physical Sector of Data Area: 2,482,642 Last Physical Sector in Layer 0: 0 after verifying Memorex DVD+-RAM 525G v1 G.01 (ATA) Current Profile: DVD-R Disc Information: Status: Complete Erasable: No Sessions: 1 Sectors: 2,286,035 Size: 4,681,799,680 bytes Time: 508:02:35 (MM:SS:FF) TOC Information: Session 1... -> Track 01 (Mode 1, LBA: 0 - 2286034) -> LeadOut (LBA: 2286035) Pre-recorded Information: Manufacturer ID: CMC MAG. AM3 Recording Management Area Information: Memorex DVD+-RAM 525G v1 Physical Format Information (Last Recorded): Disc ID: 0@P-!-00 Book Type: DVD-R Part Version: 5 Disc Size: 120mm Maximum Read Rate: Not Specified Number of Layers: 1 Track Path: Parallel Track Path (PTP) Linear Density: 0.267 um/bit Track Density: 0.74 um/track First Physical Sector of Data Area: 196,608 Last Physical Sector of Data Area: 2,482,642 Last Physical Sector in Layer 0: 0 Movie files on disc in video_ts folder 4.35 gig
mwja627 Posted April 12, 2007 Author Posted April 12, 2007 (edited) Sorry posted it twice by accident Edited April 12, 2007 by mwja627
LIGHTNING UK! Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 Thats not a log file, that's the stuff out of the disc info window.
mwja627 Posted April 13, 2007 Author Posted April 13, 2007 19:45:40 ImgBurn Version 2.3.0.0 started! I 19:45:40 Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional (5.0, Build 2195 : Service Pack 4) I 19:45:40 Total Physical Memory: 523,764 KB - Available: 241,160 KB I 19:45:40 Initialising SPTI... I 19:45:40 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices... I 19:45:40 Found 1 DVD?RW and 1 DVD?RW/RAM! I 19:59:56 Operation Started! I 19:59:56 Source File: G:\Newsbin Download\House Season 1\house.s1d1.iso I 19:59:56 Source File Sectors: 2,286,035 (MODE1/2048) I 19:59:56 Source File Size: 4,681,799,680 bytes I 19:59:56 Source File Volume Identifier: HOUSE_S1D1 I 19:59:56 Source File Application Identifier: MKISOFS ISO 9660/HFS FILESYSTEM BUILDER & CDRECORD CD-R/DVD CREATOR © 1993 E.YOUNGDALE © 1997 J.PEARSON/J.SCHILLING I 19:59:56 Source File Implementation Identifier: mkisofs I 19:59:56 Source File File System(s): ISO9660, UDF (1.02) I 19:59:56 Destination Device: [0:1:0] Memorex DVD+-RAM 525G v1 G.01 (J:) (ATA) I 19:59:56 Destination Media Type: DVD-R (Disc ID: CMC MAG. AM3) (Speeds: 4x, 8x, 12x, 16x) I 19:59:56 Destination Media Sectors: 2,298,496 I 19:59:56 Write Mode: DVD I 19:59:56 Write Type: DAO I 19:59:56 Write Speed: 16x I 19:59:56 Link Size: Auto I 19:59:56 Test Mode: No I 19:59:56 BURN-Proof: Enabled I 19:59:57 Filling Buffer... (20 MB) I 19:59:59 Writing LeadIn... I 20:00:15 Writing Image... (LBA: 0 - 2286034) W 20:01:20 Waiting for buffers to recover... W 20:01:23 Waiting for hard disk activity to reach threshold level... I 20:01:24 Writing Image... W 20:01:42 Waiting for buffers to recover... W 20:01:44 Waiting for hard disk activity to reach threshold level... I 20:01:46 Writing Image... W 20:02:20 Waiting for buffers to recover... W 20:02:22 Waiting for hard disk activity to reach threshold level... I 20:02:23 Writing Image... W 20:02:42 Waiting for buffers to recover... W 20:02:44 Waiting for hard disk activity to reach threshold level... I 20:02:47 Writing Image... W 20:03:03 Waiting for buffers to recover... W 20:03:05 Waiting for hard disk activity to reach threshold level... I 20:03:06 Writing Image... W 20:03:18 Waiting for buffers to recover... W 20:03:20 Waiting for hard disk activity to reach threshold level... I 20:03:21 Writing Image... W 20:03:37 Waiting for buffers to recover... W 20:03:39 Waiting for hard disk activity to reach threshold level... I 20:03:40 Writing Image... W 20:03:56 Waiting for buffers to recover... W 20:03:58 Waiting for hard disk activity to reach threshold level... I 20:03:59 Writing Image... W 20:04:27 Waiting for buffers to recover... W 20:04:29 Waiting for hard disk activity to reach threshold level... I 20:04:30 Writing Image... W 20:04:54 Waiting for buffers to recover... W 20:04:56 Waiting for hard disk activity to reach threshold level... I 20:04:57 Writing Image... W 20:05:15 Waiting for buffers to recover... W 20:05:17 Waiting for hard disk activity to reach threshold level... I 20:05:18 Writing Image... W 20:05:31 Waiting for buffers to recover... W 20:05:33 Waiting for hard disk activity to reach threshold level... I 20:05:48 Writing Image... W 20:06:09 Waiting for buffers to recover... W 20:06:11 Waiting for hard disk activity to reach threshold level... I 20:06:11 Writing Image... W 20:06:24 Waiting for buffers to recover... W 20:06:26 Waiting for hard disk activity to reach threshold level... I 20:06:27 Writing Image... W 20:06:39 Waiting for buffers to recover... W 20:06:41 Waiting for hard disk activity to reach threshold level... I 20:06:42 Writing Image... W 20:06:54 Waiting for buffers to recover... W 20:06:56 Waiting for hard disk activity to reach threshold level... I 20:06:57 Writing Image... W 20:07:07 Waiting for buffers to recover... W 20:07:09 Waiting for hard disk activity to reach threshold level... I 20:07:10 Writing Image... W 20:07:21 Waiting for buffers to recover... W 20:07:23 Waiting for hard disk activity to reach threshold level... I 20:07:24 Writing Image... W 20:07:33 Waiting for buffers to recover... W 20:07:35 Waiting for hard disk activity to reach threshold level... I 20:07:36 Writing Image... W 20:07:47 Waiting for buffers to recover... W 20:07:49 Waiting for hard disk activity to reach threshold level... I 20:07:50 Writing Image... W 20:08:00 Waiting for buffers to recover... W 20:08:02 Waiting for hard disk activity to reach threshold level... I 20:08:03 Writing Image... W 20:08:13 Waiting for buffers to recover... W 20:08:15 Waiting for hard disk activity to reach threshold level... I 20:08:16 Writing Image... W 20:08:27 Waiting for buffers to recover... W 20:08:29 Waiting for hard disk activity to reach threshold level... I 20:08:30 Writing Image... I 20:08:40 Synchronising Cache... I 20:08:58 Image MD5: 1cef0c319d42a9f40a934895fbf10e96 I 20:08:58 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:09:01 I 20:08:58 Average Write Rate: 9,053 KB/s (6.5x) - Maximum Write Rate: 20,316 KB/s (14.7x) I 20:09:50 Operation Started! I 20:09:50 Source Device: [0:1:0] Memorex DVD+-RAM 525G v1 G.01 (J:) (ATA) I 20:09:50 Source Media Type: DVD-R (Book Type: DVD-R) (Disc ID: CMC MAG. AM3) (Speeds: 4x, 8x, 12x, 16x) I 20:09:50 Source Media Sectors: 2,286,035 I 20:09:50 Source Media Size: 4,681,799,680 bytes I 20:09:50 Verify Against Image File: No I 20:09:50 Verifying Sectors... (LBA: 0 - 2286034) I 20:19:33 Device MD5: 1cef0c319d42a9f40a934895fbf10e96 I 20:19:33 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:09:42 I 20:19:33 Average Verify Rate: 7,855 KB/s (5.7x) - Maximum Verify Rate: 11,403 KB/s (8.2x) I 20:20:04 Close Request Acknowledged I 20:20:04 Closing Down... I 20:20:04 Shutting down SPTI... I 20:20:04 ImgBurn closed! ; ; Thank You J.T.
LIGHTNING UK! Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 Why have you told it not to verify against an image file? That's the whole point of a verify - to test that the data is correct. You've clearly got some issues with all the buffer recovery stuff in the log. What are you doing that's stopping ImgBurn from reading quickly enough from your hdd? Do you ever run defrag? You should also be on 2.3.2.0 now. Upgrade A.S.A.P.
mwja627 Posted April 13, 2007 Author Posted April 13, 2007 That is why i want to change the buffer size to 256 meg to see if it helps with the buffer problems. Do you know if this will help? harddrives are brand new 500 gig maxtor 3200 personal storage drives using usb 2.0. Thank You J.T.
mmalves Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 (edited) That is why i want to change the buffer size to 256 meg to see if it helps with the buffer problems. Do you know if this will help? harddrives are brand new 500 gig maxtor 3200 personal storage drives using usb 2.0. That's probably why you're getting empty buffers: USB 2.0 can only sustain transfers at around 15 MiB/s, which is too slow even for 12x. The HD itself is much faster, but the USB 2.0 interface acts as a bottleneck. In your case, increasing the buffer size will only give you a little more time before the buffers get empty again. The best solution would be burning at a slower speed. Edited April 13, 2007 by mmalves
mwja627 Posted April 13, 2007 Author Posted April 13, 2007 i was burning movies at 16 x so if i switch to 8x it would be better. i have 2 ide drives in my computer I can transfer my files from the 2 ide drives to the external drive and extract my images to the ide drives would this be a better solution or the problem will be the same? I am also waiting on my wd 650 gig firewall drive to come if this is a better option. i have 4 500 gig external on usb 2.0 the 650 im going to use firewire and the ide drives are 80 and 37 gig. What is the best solution I dont mind burning at slower speeds if that is the best option. Thank You J.T.
mmalves Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 Burning the ISO from the HDs on IDE probably won't have buffer underruns. FireWire is much faster than USB 2.0 and probably won't have buffer problems. In any case, I think burning at slower speed is always the best option.
dontasciime Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 USB 2.0 can only sustain transfers at around 15 MiB/s, which is too slow even for 12x Do as suggested and drop speed to 8x as that would be your best option to avoid the bottleneck you seem to be having. Mmalves your usb2 must be broken if it can only do 15meg a second mine can sustain about 28 meg a second max though on average its more like 24-26 meg a second as I used to burn at 16x over usb2 with no problems if I wanted. USB2 HD to USB2 Writer would do about 15 meg (actually mine can do between 18-19 meg before dying when going from usb2 to usb2) a second at a push and firewire is only slightly faster than usb2 even though firewire has slower data signalling at 400mbps it is a little faster.
chewy Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 donta, a lot of the externals I tested last year with multi gig transfers could only sustain 13 MB/s firewire around 23MB/s very chipset(enclosure) dependent how are you measuring a 28 MB/s transfer, I used a calculator and a stopwatch
LIGHTNING UK! Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 I get ~30mb/s from my hdds in an 'icy box' 3.5" enclosure. Optical drives never get anywhere near that when I try! lol I 23:55:31 Operation Started! I 23:55:31 Device: [0:0:0] Maxtor 7 B300S0 (G:) (USB) I 23:55:31 Device Sectors: 586,114,704 I 23:55:31 Device Size: 300,090,728,448 bytes I 23:55:31 Action: Verify I 23:55:31 Passes: 1 I 23:55:31 Verifying Sectors... I 23:57:47 Abort Request Acknowledged E 23:57:48 Failed to Verify Sectors! E 23:57:48 Verify Aborted! - Duration: 00:02:16 I 23:57:48 Average I/O Rate: 34,108 KB/s - Maximum I/O Rate: 37,582 KB/s E 23:57:48 Operation Aborted! - Duration: 00:02:16
polopony Posted April 14, 2007 Posted April 14, 2007 and when this is all sorted get some decent media those CMC MAG AM3 discs are garbage Verbatim or Taiyo Yuden everything else is a waste of time IMO
mwja627 Posted April 14, 2007 Author Posted April 14, 2007 ok i slowed my burned speed down to 4x no problems with buffers now still done play on my dvd player. I have verbatim dual layers that i paid 5 bucks a disc for to make sure they were good for my xbox im thinking of using a dual layer to burn my tv series to see if it is the disc dye the dvdplayer doesnt like. probarly going to throw 5 bucks down the drain but hopefully it will work what do you guys think? I 20:55:29 ImgBurn Version 2.3.0.0 started! I 20:55:29 Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional (5.0, Build 2195 : Service Pack 4) I 20:55:29 Total Physical Memory: 523,764 KB - Available: 259,640 KB I 20:55:29 Initialising SPTI... I 20:55:29 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices... I 20:55:29 Found 1 DVD?RW and 1 DVD?RW/RAM! I 20:56:12 Operation Started! I 20:56:12 Source File: G:\Newsbin Download\House Season 1\house.s1d1.iso I 20:56:12 Source File Sectors: 2,286,035 (MODE1/2048) I 20:56:12 Source File Size: 4,681,799,680 bytes I 20:56:12 Source File Volume Identifier: HOUSE_S1D1 I 20:56:12 Source File Application Identifier: MKISOFS ISO 9660/HFS FILESYSTEM BUILDER & CDRECORD CD-R/DVD CREATOR © 1993 E.YOUNGDALE © 1997 J.PEARSON/J.SCHILLING I 20:56:12 Source File Implementation Identifier: mkisofs I 20:56:12 Source File File System(s): ISO9660, UDF (1.02) I 20:56:12 Destination Device: [0:1:0] Memorex DVD+-RAM 525G v1 G.01 (J:) (ATA) I 20:56:12 Destination Media Type: DVD-R (Disc ID: CMC MAG. AM3) (Speeds: 4x, 8x, 12x, 16x) I 20:56:12 Destination Media Sectors: 2,297,888 I 20:56:12 Write Mode: DVD I 20:56:12 Write Type: DAO I 20:56:13 Write Speed: 4x I 20:56:13 Link Size: Auto I 20:56:13 Test Mode: No I 20:56:13 BURN-Proof: Enabled I 20:56:14 Filling Buffer... (20 MB) I 20:56:18 Writing LeadIn... I 20:56:30 Writing Image... (LBA: 0 - 2286034) I 21:10:37 Synchronising Cache... I 21:11:07 Image MD5: 1cef0c319d42a9f40a934895fbf10e96 I 21:11:08 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:14:54 I 21:11:08 Average Write Rate: 5,404 KB/s (3.9x) - Maximum Write Rate: 5,664 KB/s (4.1x) I 21:11:08 Cycling Tray before Verify... W 21:11:20 Waiting for device to become ready... I 21:11:39 Device Ready! I 21:11:41 Operation Started! I 21:11:41 Source Device: [0:1:0] Memorex DVD+-RAM 525G v1 G.01 (J:) (ATA) I 21:11:41 Source Media Type: DVD-R (Book Type: DVD-R) (Disc ID: CMC MAG. AM3) (Speeds: 4x, 8x, 12x, 16x) I 21:11:41 Image File: G:\Newsbin Download\House Season 1\house.s1d1.iso I 21:11:41 Image File Sectors: 2,286,035 (MODE1/2048) I 21:11:41 Image File Size: 4,681,799,680 bytes I 21:11:41 Image File Volume Identifier: HOUSE_S1D1 I 21:11:41 Image File Application Identifier: MKISOFS ISO 9660/HFS FILESYSTEM BUILDER & CDRECORD CD-R/DVD CREATOR © 1993 E.YOUNGDALE © 1997 J.PEARSON/J.SCHILLING I 21:11:41 Image File Implementation Identifier: mkisofs I 21:11:41 Image File File System(s): ISO9660, UDF (1.02) I 21:11:41 Verifying Sectors... (LBA: 0 - 2286034) I 21:22:10 Device MD5: 1cef0c319d42a9f40a934895fbf10e96 I 21:22:10 Image MD5: 1cef0c319d42a9f40a934895fbf10e96 I 21:22:10 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:10:29 Thank You J.T. I 21:22:10 Average Verify Rate: 7,280 KB/s (5.3x) - Maximum Verify Rate: 11,150 KB/s (8.1x) I 21:22:39 Close Request Acknowledged I 21:22:39 Closing Down... I 21:22:39 Shutting down SPTI... I 21:22:40 ImgBurn closed! ;
mwja627 Posted April 14, 2007 Author Posted April 14, 2007 (edited) Ok I updated the program and reburnt it with a dvd-r disc still no good. im going to try on a +r dvd dl disc hopefully that works just to test if it works i will purchase the dvd +r 4.7 gig verbatim. Hopefully its only a disc problem. The discs do work in my pc just not in my dvd player. Thank You J.T. Edited April 14, 2007 by mwja627
polopony Posted April 14, 2007 Posted April 14, 2007 you should also booktype the disc to dvd rom, its the little book icon in IMGburn, write mode settings (lower right hand corner ) makes the discs way more compatible to players ,they think that they are a original pressed disc PS if you're paying $5 for dual layer discs you're getting ripped off they can be had for less than half of that
mwja627 Posted April 14, 2007 Author Posted April 14, 2007 [i just brought them from the local best buy to make sure they work ill never pay that much for dvd +r dl again it was just for compatility make sure they worked. my drive doesnt support bitsetting but when i burn on dvd +r it is dvd -rom. on -r it is dvd -r book type guess thats my problem will see in 15 minutes Thank You J.T.
dontasciime Posted April 14, 2007 Posted April 14, 2007 donta, a lot of the externals I tested last year with multi gig transfers could only sustain 13 MB/s Get rid of them then as they are not very good or the implementation of usb2 on the board of enclosure or the motherboards implementation you had them connected to is not that good or not working correctly. Hdtach, hddtools, stopwatch, and if anything my 22meg to 28 meg is an under estimate of what my hardware can achieve I just erred on the side of a negative value as I know for 100% they can do that rather than claim 30+ which they should and tbh can achieve. I can also burn at 18X Over usb2 to 16x media if I wanted to. http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?showtopic=3179&hl= This is log from one of my usb2 enclosures with 80 gig Hard drive in. I 11:51:25 HDD Tools Version 0.0.0.5 Beta started! I 11:51:25 Microsoft Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600 : Service Pack 2) I 11:51:25 Initialising SPTI... I 11:51:25 Searching for SCSI / ATA devices... I 11:51:25 Found 3 Fixed Disks! I 11:51:41 Operation Started! I 11:51:41 Device: [0:0:0] SAMSUNG SP0812C (K:, M:) (USB) I 11:51:41 Device Sectors: 156,368,016 I 11:51:41 Device Size: 80,060,424,192 bytes I 11:51:41 Action: Verify I 11:51:41 Passes: 1 I 11:51:41 Verifying Sectors... I 12:27:59 Verify Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:36:18 I 12:28:00 Average I/O Rate: 35,897 KB/s - Maximum I/O Rate: 38,966 KB/s I 12:28:00 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:36:18
chewy Posted April 14, 2007 Posted April 14, 2007 I gave up on usb2 over a year ago(w/ exception of mice or jump drives) Seen a few chipsets that reach 16x with usb2 and dvd burners? E-sata seemed a better option? especially for hard drives can you all transfer a 4.4 gig file in 2 1/2 minutes?
volvofl10 Posted April 14, 2007 Posted April 14, 2007 did a dual test using an external hdd in a dual firewire/usb2 enclosure using the USB 2 connection I 15:38:23 Device: [0:0:0] USB 2.0 Storage Device 0100 (K:) (USB) I 15:38:23 Device Sectors: 398,297,088 I 15:38:23 Device Size: 203,928,109,056 bytes I 15:38:23 Action: Verify I 15:38:23 Passes: 1 I 15:38:23 Verifying Sectors... I 15:38:29 Abort Request Acknowledged E 15:38:29 Failed to Verify Sectors! E 15:38:29 Verify Aborted! - Duration: 00:10:06 I 15:38:29 Average I/O Rate: 26,304 KB/s - Maximum I/O Rate: 27,763 KB/s E 15:38:29 Operation Aborted! - Duration: 00:10:06 using the mini firewire 1394 connection I 16:02:41 Operation Started! I 16:02:41 Device: [0:0:0] Maxtor 6 Y200P0 YAR4 (K:) (1394) I 16:02:41 Device Sectors: 398,297,088 I 16:02:41 Device Size: 203,928,109,056 bytes I 16:02:41 Action: Verify I 16:02:41 Passes: 1 I 16:02:41 Verifying Sectors... I 16:15:56 Abort Request Acknowledged E 16:15:56 Failed to Verify Sectors! E 16:15:56 Verify Aborted! - Duration: 00:13:14 I 16:15:56 Average I/O Rate: 35,017 KB/s - Maximum I/O Rate: 42,196 KB/s E 16:15:56 Operation Aborted! - Duration: 00:13:14 in this instance, mini firewire was faster for the fun of it, i did the test on 1 of the internal drives on a laptop and got the following I 13:26:57 Operation Started! I 13:26:57 Device: [2:2:0] HTE72606 0M9AT00 MH4O (J:) (ATA) I 13:26:57 Device Sectors: 117,210,240 I 13:26:57 Device Size: 60,011,642,880 bytes I 13:26:57 Action: Verify I 13:26:57 Passes: 1 I 13:26:57 Verifying Sectors... I 13:59:08 Verify Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:32:11 I 13:59:08 Average I/O Rate: 30,349 KB/s - Maximum I/O Rate: 42,863 KB/s I 13:59:08 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:32:11 given its a laptop with 7200rpm drives, i was quite impressed with the comparisson with the externals speeds
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