Wrong time/free space being read from Taiyo-Yuden discs in Pioneer drive????

slipkid · January 4, 2009

I'm having a sporadic and crazy problem with IMGBURN 2.4.2.0 and my Pioneer DVR-115D 1.22 drive trying to burn 80 minute Taiyo-Yuden CDRs.

I first noticed this a few days ago but then it stopped and I forgot about it - right now it is doing it again though. I am at my wits end trying to figure out what might be happening. Makes no sense.

What is going on is that I put in an 80min Taiyo-Yuden (branded "fujifilm) blank CDR, but IMGBURN thinks it has only 55 minutes free instead of 80 minutes, if I try to use it in my Pioneer DVR-115D (firmware 1.22), and it tells me that what I am trying to write out won't fit on the CD (I am trying to write out discs that are about 70 minutes).

It looks like this in the window in the IMGBURN program:

>>>>>>>>>>>>

PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-115D 1.22 (ATA)

Current Profile: CD-R

Disc Information:

Status: Empty

Erasable: No

Free Sectors: 250,320

Free Space: 512,655,360 bytes

Free Time: 55:39:45 (MM:SS:FF)

Supported Write Speeds: 4x, 10x, 16x, 24x, 32x, 40x

ATIP Information:

Start Time of LeadIn (MID): 97m24s01f

Last Possible Start Time of LeadOut: 79m59s72f

<<<<<<<<<<<<<

If I put the same blank in my LITE-On DH20A4H drive in the same PC it sees it correctly as an 80 minute blank:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

ATAPI DVD A DH20A4H QP5B (ATA)

Current Profile: CD-R

Disc Information:

Status: Empty

Erasable: No

Free Sectors: 359,845

Free Space: 736,962,560 bytes

Free Time: 79:59:70 (MM:SS:FF)

Supported Write Speeds: 16x, 24x, 32x, 40x, 48x

ATIP Information:

Start Time of LeadIn (MID): 97m24s01f

Last Possible Start Time of LeadOut: 79m59s72f

<<<<<<<<<<<<<

The same disc in my Pioneer drive with EAC as the burning software think it is an 80 minute blank and it will let me write out a 70min set of audio files.

NeroInfotool and DiscSpeed think it is an 80 minute blank.

Taking the disc out and putting it back in IMGBURN still thinks it is only 55 minutes long.

The IMGBURN log doesn't seem to show anything useful:

>>>>>>

; //****************************************\\

; ImgBurn Version 2.4.2.0 - Log

; Saturday, 03 January 2009, 23:58:09

; \\****************************************//

;

I 23:57:50 ImgBurn Version 2.4.2.0 started!

I 23:57:50 Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition (5.1, Build 2600 : Service Pack 3)

I 23:57:50 Total Physical Memory: 1,047,564 KB - Available: 560,960 KB

I 23:57:51 Initialising SPTI...

I 23:57:51 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...

I 23:57:51 Found 1 DVD

**Cynthia** · January 4, 2009

I was curious as I have the same writer/firmware, but not the same media code as you. Here it can see the 80 min CD as it should be.

PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-115D 1.22 (ATA)

Current Profile: CD-R

Disc Information:

Status: Empty

Erasable: No

Free Sectors: 359

**LIGHTNING UK!** · January 4, 2009

ImgBurn is simply telling you what your drive has reported - i.e. it's the drive / firmware that's at fault here.

Just ignore the overburn prompt and I'm sure everything will work out just fine.

I've no problems on a 216 with that MID.

PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-216 1.09 (ATA)

Current Profile: CD-R

Disc Information:

Status: Empty

Erasable: No

Free Sectors: 359,845

Free Space: 736,962,560 bytes

Free Time: 79:59:70 (MM:SS:FF)

Supported Write Speeds: 4x, 10x, 16x, 24x, 32x, 40x

ATIP Information:

Start Time of LeadIn (MID): 97m24s01f

Last Possible Start Time of LeadOut: 79m59s72f

slipkid · January 4, 2009

thanks!

i'll try ignoring the overburn prompt

strange that right now it is stuck in this wierd scenario with IMGBURN (i have not yet rebooted), but in EAC that program (and other things like nero infotool or cdspeed) they all see the disc correctly as 80 minutes.....only IMGBURN sees it as 55...if coming from the drive wouldn't all the programs read the exact same thing????

**LIGHTNING UK!** · January 4, 2009

No because it depends on which command is reporting the info and which bit of info the software relies upon.

**volvofl10** · January 4, 2009

PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-216 1.09 (ATA)

Update your firmware , theres a 1.22 available for your drive >_< :whistling:

**LIGHTNING UK!** · January 5, 2009

I think you'll find that's not for the 216

slipkid · January 5, 2009

If I ever figure out what causes this I will post back up here.

Right now the drive with IMGBURN is fine again, after a shutdown/restart.

>>>>>>>>>>>

PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-115D 1.22 (ATA)

Current Profile: CD-R

Disc Information:

Status: Empty

Erasable: No

Free Sectors: 359,845

Free Space: 736,962,560 bytes

Free Time: 79:59:70 (MM:SS:FF)

Supported Write Speeds: 4x, 10x, 16x, 24x, 32x, 40x

ATIP Information:

Start Time of LeadIn (MID): 97m24s01f

Last Possible Start Time of LeadOut: 79m59s72f

<<<<<<<<<<<

Some kind of crazy thing corrupting how IMGBURN talks to this drive on my PC!?!?!?!

I'm even running a bunch of programs that I was running yesterday. I'm not running all of them though, have to try to remember the rest (stuff like OUTLOOK EXPRESS, MAILWASHER, old ADOBE PHOTOSHOP) and see which one of them causes the stars to get out of alignment again......wierdest thing I've ever seen PC-wise & I've seen a bunch over the years. Don't think I have any malware biting me but I will do complete virus/adware/etc scans too.

**mmalves** · January 5, 2009

Please post your Filter Driver Load Order (look in ImgBurn's Tools menu).

**volvofl10** · January 6, 2009

I think you'll find that's not for the 216

it'a good job someone round here pays attention isn't it ? :whistling: :blush:

**LIGHTNING UK!** · January 6, 2009

Some kind of crazy thing corrupting how IMGBURN talks to this drive on my PC!?!?!?!

I doubt it, I think it's just a bug in/problem with your drive/firmware.

It won't just be ImgBurn anyway, I bet if any program issued the 'READ TRACK INFORMATION' command and then output the values stored in the fields (refer to the MMC specs to find out which ones), they too would show 55 mins.

The problem (for you anyway) is that the values from that command are what ImgBurn uses to determine the free space on the disc.

If I just used the value used to display 'Last Possible Start Time of LeadOut' value (which is correct at '79m59s72f') then you wouldn't get the prompt to overburn and probably wouldn't ever know this issue existed.

slipkid · January 6, 2009

Please post your Filter Driver Load Order (look in ImgBurn's Tools menu).

===============================================

Filter Driver Load Order - ImgBurn v2.4.2.0

===============================================

Upper Device Filter: redbook

Upper Class Filter: [None Found]

Device: CD/DVD-ROM Device

Lower Class Filter: pfc

Lower Device Filter: imapi

Filter Name: redbook

File Name: C:\WINDOWS\system32\DRIVERS\redbook.sys

File Version: 5.1.2600.5512 (xpsp.080413-2108)

File Description: Redbook Audio Filter Driver

Product Name: Microsoft

slipkid · January 6, 2009

I doubt it, I think it's just a bug in/problem with your drive/firmware.

It won't just be ImgBurn anyway, I bet if any program issued the 'READ TRACK INFORMATION' command and then output the values stored in the fields (refer to the MMC specs to find out which ones), they too would show 55 mins.

The problem (for you anyway) is that the values from that command are what ImgBurn uses to determine the free space on the disc.

If I just used the value used to display 'Last Possible Start Time of LeadOut' value (which is correct at '79m59s72f') then you wouldn't get the prompt to overburn and probably wouldn't ever know this issue existed.

Thanks. The way it is a transient thing is what really makes me scratch my head. If a firmware bug why would it be OK sometimes and not others? But maybe that is just the nature of this bug.

Does anyone know what other programs I can use that also issues that READ TRACK INFORMATION command and then shows me what it sees? Because so far when this is happening I have double-checked the discs with both EAC's write interface and NeroDiscSpeed but they think the blanks are about 80 minutes (are they only reading the leadout spot?).

Cheers.

**LIGHTNING UK!** · January 6, 2009

You could remove the PFC filter. If it dates back to 2001 then there will almost certainly be issues with it that have been fixed in newer versions. PFC is normally part of Padus DiscJuggler. Do you or have you ever installed that app?

are they only reading the leadout spot?).

Yes they're probably only reading the ATIP value.

I can double check the raw data by having you enable debug mode (press F8) and then insert the disc. Just press F8 again (to turn it off) when all you see is 'TEST UNIT READY' scrolling in the log window.

slipkid · January 6, 2009

You could remove the PFC filter. If it dates back to 2001 then there will almost certainly be issues with it that have been fixed in newer versions. PFC is normally part of Padus DiscJuggler. Do you or have you ever installed that app?

No, I've never heard of it!!! I will google it, see if I can learn anything about it to jog my memory, and try to find out how to remove or update that filter. This is a new topic for me. As much of a pain that this is I like learning about this stuff though.

Yes they're probably only reading the ATIP value.

I can double check the raw data by having you enable debug mode (press F8) and then insert the disc. Just press F8 again (to turn it off) when all you see is 'TEST UNIT READY' scrolling in the log window.

I will try that once I notice this wierdness again & get back to you in this thread. What I'll do is just keep checking discs once or twice a day even if I am not trying to burn anything, in hopes of catching this thing in action. THANKS!

**LIGHTNING UK!** · January 6, 2009

There's a button on the window you copied the filter driver info from that'll remove the filter from the list.

slipkid · January 7, 2009

There's a button on the window you copied the filter driver info from that'll remove the filter from the list.

THANKS! I may try that. In the meantime I have been trying to learn/understand what that filter is. I confess to not really understanding what it does or what uses it but from what I've read so far it I think is used by a bunch of different applications as some kind of way for them to communicate with CD/DVD drives. Looks like it could have come from anything I have including stuff like CONVERTXtoDVD, ADOBE AUDITION, CDRWIN, DVDSHRINK, anything like that. I'm not sure if my PC might need it for anything or not (?).

This one link I found has people commenting about the driver, discussing if it is malware (it's not), and I noticed several complained that if they removed it they couldn't get to their DVD drives anymore, so that makes me nervous about deleting it:

http://www.neuber.com/taskmanager/process/pfc.sys.html

If I use IMGBURN to remove it, is there a way to reinstall it if I still need it? Maybe I'll find I still need it right away (?), or maybe I won't know until I try a function in some other app months down the road, so I'm a bit skittish about removing it since I really don't understand fully what it is. And what does IMGBURN do when removing it - deleting it from the registry and deleting the files too? Again, sorry for dumb questions. I have tried searching around for a couple hours to learn what this driver/filter is but I'm still confused.

**mmalves** · January 7, 2009

ImgBurn doesn't remove the file; it only removes the entry that tells the system to use that filter driver.

I don't know where you were looking, but in most cases I've seen people had to remove dodgy filters in order to use or even "see" their burners again in Windows. What could happen is that the program which uses this filter may stop working, and in that case, you could always re-install such program, right?

slipkid · January 8, 2009

ImgBurn doesn't remove the file; it only removes the entry that tells the system to use that filter driver.

I don't know where you were looking, but in most cases I've seen people had to remove dodgy filters in order to use or even "see" their burners again in Windows. What could happen is that the program which uses this filter may stop working, and in that case, you could always re-install such program, right?

THANKS. I am definitely leaning towards removing it. The link I posted above was where I saw some people say they couldn't see their drives after doing that, but the more I've been reading the more this filter thing seems unnecessary and possibly more problematic than it's worth. I think if I do lose the drives after removing this filter I should be able to get them back again just removing the from drives from device manager & rebooting & letting XP reinstall what it needs. And as far as some apps possibly breaking or complaining, *hopefully* I would be able to reinstall any apps to fix them, provided of course I can find their original install discs/files. I have found more threads googling around with people asking how to get rid of it more than I have people asking how to get it though so I take that as a definite sign it is expendable!

slipkid · January 8, 2009

I can double check the raw data by having you enable debug mode (press F8) and then insert the disc. Just press F8 again (to turn it off) when all you see is 'TEST UNIT READY' scrolling in the log window.

Things are acting up again so I did that capture you mentioned.

Here's some of the log with a T-Y blank - I've removed some of the duplicate entries to make this smaller - if you want me to post the whole log just let me know:

I 01:52:39 ImgBurn Version 2.4.2.0 started!

I 01:52:39 Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition (5.1, Build 2600 : Service Pack 3)

I 01:52:39 Total Physical Memory: 1,047,564 KB - Available: 590,888 KB

I 01:52:39 Initialising SPTI...

I 01:52:39 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...

I 01:52:39 Found 1 DVD

slipkid · January 24, 2009

Just wanted to say that I removed the PFC filter, rebooted, and all looked good.

I went a couple days that way, checking blank CDRs every so often, and all came up as 79+ plus as seen by IMGBURN. Thought maybe the problem was solved, but just checked again now and - it is back to seeing only 55min instead of 79min.

Am still very much scratching my head over this. Over at another forum they tell me to try downgrading the firmware, but I have to research that further to even see how to do it, and at the same time am reluctant to do so for fear of that hurting the drive's performance with various DVD media types. At this point I probably am giving up but if I ever do figure this out I will try to post what it was in this thread for anyone curious.

spotcast · July 23, 2010

Different drive with same problem. First time I have experienced this. Soft reboot didn't resolve it.

===============================================

Filter Driver Load Order - ImgBurn v2.5.1.0

===============================================

Upper Device Filter: redbook

Upper Class Filter: [None Found]

Device: CD/DVD-ROM Device

Lower Class Filter: [None Found]

Lower Device Filter: imapi

Filter Name: redbook

File Name: C:\WINDOWS\system32\DRIVERS\redbook.sys

File Version: 5.1.2600.5512 (xpsp.080413-2108)

File Description: Redbook Audio Filter Driver

Product Name: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System

Product Version: 5.1.2600.5512

Company Name: Microsoft Corporation

Filter Name: imapi

File Name: C:\WINDOWS\system32\DRIVERS\imapi.sys

File Version: 5.1.2600.5512 (xpsp.080413-2108)

File Description: IMAPI Kernel Driver

Product Name: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System

Product Version: 5.1.2600.5512

Company Name: Microsoft Corporation

I 14:11:23 ImgBurn Version 2.5.1.0 started!

I 14:11:23 Microsoft Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600 : Service Pack 3)

I 14:11:23 Total Physical Memory: 2,094,632 KB - Available: 1,395,812 KB

I 14:11:24 Initialising SPTI...

I 14:11:24 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...

I 14:11:24 -> Drive 1 - Info: PBDS CD-ROM DH-48N1S BD11 (D:) (ATA)

I 14:11:25 -> Drive 2 - Info: PBDS DVD+-RW DH-16W1S 2D14 (E:) (ATA)

I 14:11:25 -> Drive 3 - Info: ELBY CLONEDRIVE 1.4 (V:) (SCSI)

I 14:11:25 -> Drive 4 - Info: ELBY CLONEDRIVE 1.4 (W:) (SCSI)

I 14:11:25 Found 1 CD-ROM, 1 DVD±RW and 2 BD-ROM/HD DVD-ROMs!

W 14:18:07 I/O Interface 'Debug Mode' has been Enabled!

I 14:18:07 [2:0:0] PBDS DVD+-RW DH-16W1S 2D14 (E:) (ATA)

I 14:18:07 CDB: 00 00 00 00 00 00

I 14:18:07 CDB Interpretation: Test Unit Ready

E 14:18:07 SENSE: 70 00 02 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 3A 00 00 00 00 00

E 14:18:07 SENSE Interpretation: Medium Not Present

I 14:18:08 [2:0:0] PBDS DVD+-RW DH-16W1S 2D14 (E:) (ATA)

I 14:18:08 CDB: 00 00 00 00 00 00

I 14:18:08 CDB Interpretation: Test Unit Ready

E 14:18:08 SENSE: 70 00 02 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 3A 00 00 00 00 00

E 14:18:08 SENSE Interpretation: Medium Not Present

I 14:18:09 [2:0:0] PBDS DVD+-RW DH-16W1S 2D14 (E:) (ATA)

I 14:18:09 CDB: 00 00 00 00 00 00

I 14:18:09 CDB Interpretation: Test Unit Ready

E 14:18:09 SENSE: 70 00 02 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 04 01 00 00 00 00

E 14:18:09 SENSE Interpretation: Logical Unit is in process of becoming ready

I 14:18:10 [2:0:0] PBDS DVD+-RW DH-16W1S 2D14 (E:) (ATA)

I 14:18:10 CDB: 00 00 00 00 00 00

I 14:18:10 CDB Interpretation: Test Unit Ready

E 14:18:10 SENSE: 70 00 02 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 04 01 00 00 00 00

E 14:18:10 SENSE Interpretation: Logical Unit is in process of becoming ready

I 14:18:11 [2:0:0] PBDS DVD+-RW DH-16W1S 2D14 (E:) (ATA)

I 14:18:11 CDB: 00 00 00 00 00 00

I 14:18:11 CDB Interpretation: Test Unit Ready

E 14:18:11 SENSE: 70 00 02 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 04 01 00 00 00 00

E 14:18:11 SENSE Interpretation: Logical Unit is in process of becoming ready

I 14:18:12 [2:0:0] PBDS DVD+-RW DH-16W1S 2D14 (E:) (ATA)

I 14:18:12 CDB: 00 00 00 00 00 00

I 14:18:12 CDB Interpretation: Test Unit Ready

E 14:18:12 SENSE: 70 00 02 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 04 01 00 00 00 00

E 14:18:12 SENSE Interpretation: Logical Unit is in process of becoming ready

I 14:18:14 [2:0:0] PBDS DVD+-RW DH-16W1S 2D14 (E:) (ATA)

I 14:18:14 CDB: 00 00 00 00 00 00

I 14:18:14 CDB Interpretation: Test Unit Ready

E 14:18:14 SENSE: 70 00 02 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 04 01 00 00 00 00

E 14:18:14 SENSE Interpretation: Logical Unit is in process of becoming ready

I 14:18:15 [2:0:0] PBDS DVD+-RW DH-16W1S 2D14 (E:) (ATA)

I 14:18:15 CDB: 00 00 00 00 00 00

I 14:18:15 CDB Interpretation: Test Unit Ready

E 14:18:15 SENSE: 70 00 02 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 04 01 00 00 00 00

E 14:18:15 SENSE Interpretation: Logical Unit is in process of becoming ready

I 14:18:16 [2:0:0] PBDS DVD+-RW DH-16W1S 2D14 (E:) (ATA)

I 14:18:16 CDB: 00 00 00 00 00 00

I 14:18:16 CDB Interpretation: Test Unit Ready

E 14:18:16 SENSE: 70 00 02 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 04 01 00 00 00 00

E 14:18:16 SENSE Interpretation: Logical Unit is in process of becoming ready

I 14:18:17 [2:0:0] PBDS DVD+-RW DH-16W1S 2D14 (E:) (ATA)

I 14:18:17 CDB: 00 00 00 00 00 00

I 14:18:17 CDB Interpretation: Test Unit Ready

E 14:18:17 SENSE: 70 00 02 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 04 01 00 00 00 00

E 14:18:17 SENSE Interpretation: Logical Unit is in process of becoming ready

I 14:18:18 [2:0:0] PBDS DVD+-RW DH-16W1S 2D14 (E:) (ATA)

I 14:18:18 CDB: 00 00 00 00 00 00

I 14:18:18 CDB Interpretation: Test Unit Ready

E 14:18:18 SENSE: 70 00 06 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 28 00 00 00 00 00

E 14:18:18 SENSE Interpretation: Not Ready To Ready Change - Medium May Have Changed