Jump to content

Bye, bye Miss Galactica...


Pain_Man
 Share

Recommended Posts

According to a story on TV Guide's website, Battlestar Galactica's 22 episode fourth season will be it's last. (Tho' this isn't really a surprise considering that Katee Sackhoff has taken a lead role in the upcoming "remake" of The Bionic Woman; and Edward James Olmos had made public statements about the end of the show recently.) Shooting begins this month and the season will debut in JAN 2008.

 

The announcement was made by the show's creator Ron Moore, who shares Executive Producing duties with David Eick; who claim :shifty: the decision was theirs :rolleyes: . As you can read in the article, they say they always had in mind a "beginning, a middle and an end" and that the show's been moving toward it's denouement.

 

That's as maybe but, imo, as with Farscape, it appears SciFi is shooting itself in the foot by cancelling a hit show at the crest of its curve.

 

It also reminds us B5 fans how that show ended with a massive number of plot threads unresolved and the potential for several more seasons as well. Let's hope that Moore and Eick don't leave us hanging the way JMS did. (To be fair to JMS, the first of what is projected to be several straight-to-DVD B5 movies is already finished and will be released sometime this year. Hopefully, some of those loose ends will be resolved; without the participation, and with the death, of nearly all of the core cast, one does wonder...)

 

It may have been, superficially, Moore/Eick's decision, but it's far more likely that they were told by SciFi/Universal brass that their per ep budgets would be drastically cut, or certain key stars contracts wouldn't be renewed, etc. Or perhaps they were simply told the show was done and "wouldn't you rather be the ones to make the announcement?" We won't know until the inevitable book about the "true story of BSG" appears.

 

From the article: "Eick and Moore are holding a conference call this afternoon to discuss their decision."

 

Let's hope the show goes out the way it came in: with a helluva bang. :thumbup:

 

I think it's clear (tho' arugable) that the show had several more seasons in it and it's sad to see it go. Rome is gone, Deadwood's gone and soon, BSG will follow them. With the sole exception of Showtime's good (but not great) The Tudors, there's going be damned little worth watching on TV for the forseeable future.

 

Oh well. Thank God for DVDs and Blockbuster's new online/mail service. I'll be able to watch all those Voyager eps I missed.

 

 

 

Here's the url for the story: BSG to End After S4

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They did say when they got the extra episodes for season 4 it was so it could be brought to a close. But that decision wasn't taken until after the big ratings fall during season 3. I was a big BSG fan, but during season 3 when it went all political and with the trial of Baltar (Saddam), I just got fed up. In real life Baltar whould have been flushed out the airlock, and good riddance, for collaborating with the enemy. By letting him off major characters, Adama & Roslin looked weak.

 

Never been keen on Starbuck - what happened to feminine women? She fights, kills and smokes cigars - is that what American men want?

 

I think it was a very good series that was really too good for mainstream TV.

 

Be looking out for B5 as I was a big fan.

 

Good luck with Voyager - was never a Janeway fan, but I could take orders while being under 7 of 9.

 

Regards,

Edited by Altercuno
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But I could take orders while being under 7 of 9.

 

Or over, or sideways, or upside down... :wub:

 

 

There was something in the press that the an "extra long" Season 4 might be because they didn't want to go to a Fifth Season (since cable "seasons" are normally 13 eps instead of 22).

 

It was in Entertainment Weekly which, not infrequently, gets things wrong. For instance, they compiled a list of the Top 25 SF Movies/TV Series of the Last 25 Years and left B5 off of it!. After getting 1200+ emails, they admitted that JMS' masterpiece should have been on the list (they had excluded precisely because it was a contained 4 year story arc--non-fans don't realize that The Arc didn't really begin until S2; that most of S1's eps were rather Star Trek like self-contained story-lines.)

 

 

Never been keen on Starbuck - what happened to feminine women? She fights, kills and smokes cigars - is that what American men want?

 

Tastes vary. I find Katee Sackhoff to be very sexy myself. And I love the Starbuck character. So complicated, so screwed up, so real. That--and her legs :thumbup: --made her intensely attractive to many guys.

 

(Tho' I admit I was grossed out when she boffed Baltar.)

 

One of BSG's glories is that, unlike almost every Star Trek incarnation--except maybe DS9--the characters are real people. With Star Trek and it's Commandment ("There Shalt Not Be Interpersonal Conflict"), psychological tension and personal conflict were sometimes replaced by bloodless storylines filled with Treknobabble.

 

Never the case with BSG!

 

It's not so much of what the mythical American Male wants but that there should be variety. Not all women are cut out for baking pies within the white picket fences.

 

Some women want to kick ass (including my 7 yr old daughter) while at the same time retaining the option of being feminine when they want to be. Yet another reason why women are the superior sex.

 

These types of characters, of course, go straight back to Sigourney Weaver's Ripley in the Alien movies. She's never particularly, ah, pumped my 'nads--as we said back in the day--but she certainly created a template for strong female characters that kick ass without apology.

 

In real life Baltar whould have been flushed out the airlock, and good riddance, for collaborating with the enemy. By letting him off major characters, Adama & Roslin looked weak.

 

I have to part company with you hear. I found the trial episodes riveting. Lee's closing argument was absolutely brilliant. And while if I were Adama I probably would have seen to it that Baltar had an "accident" before a trial, once it came to one, I thought it was handled brilliantly. Lee proved that they'd all done things that were morally ambiguous at best. Baltar's real crime on New Caprica was not so much collaboration as it was cowardice. After he, did have a gun to his head when he signed the mass murder order.

 

 

Damn, Alter! You've only been posting for six months and you've got almost as many posts as I do. You are one prolific dude. :worthy:

 

 

They did say when they got the extra episodes for season 4 it was so it could be brought to a close. But that decision wasn't taken until after the big ratings fall during season 3. I was a big BSG fan, but during season 3 when it went all political and with the trial of Baltar (Saddam), I just got fed up. In real life Baltar whould have been flushed out the airlock, and good riddance, for collaborating with the enemy. By letting him off major characters, Adama & Roslin looked weak.

 

Never been keen on Starbuck - what happened to feminine women? She fights, kills and smokes cigars - is that what American men want?

 

I think it was a very good series that was really too good for mainstream TV.

 

Be looking out for B5 as I was a big fan.

 

Good luck with Voyager - was never a Janeway fan, but I could take orders while being under 7 of 9.

 

Regards,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tastes vary

 

Fair enough. I think the whole 'power woman' thing has been done to death and would expect the brilliant writers on BSG to come up with something different. Having said that my all time favorite's Sam Carter of SG1. She can to it to me anytime...

 

Colonel Tigh is my favorite character as he seems so realistic and killing his wife for collaborating was a very powerful scene. He has some great lines too.

 

Yeah I forgot Starbuck & Baltar did the horizontal salsa...your right gross...

 

The trial: True Lee's closing argument was good, but he drew attention to plot weakness in previous episodes. The Chief led a strike stopping fuel supplies in a time of war...and was let off? Starbuck just does what she likes, Lee disobeys orders whenever he feels like it, so the reason for letting Baltar off is why not?...we did with everyone else.

 

Your right about Star Trek. Looking back at some point the whole concept jumped the shark.

 

Don't be too impressed with my post count PM. Most of its for posting naughty girlies... :D

 

:worthy: to you too...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jesus, I don't how these get so long. I don't set out to make them thus, but when I'm done, I realize I've written War & Peace again. I know some people won't read posts that are too long; given how wrong I rub some people, I guess that's not entirely a bad thing. :unsure:

 

Tastes vary

 

Fair enough. I think the whole 'power woman' thing has been done to death and would expect the brilliant writers on BSG to come up with something different. Having said that my all time favorite's Sam Carter of SG1. She can to it to me anytime...

 

"I am woman, hear me roar" has gotten a little old. OK--a lot old. I think a lot has to do with how it's handled. The fact that Starbuck had some very real weaknesses (the boozing, the brawling, constantly fucking up her career with insubordination; in the actual military one really would have to be the best pilot in the service not to get a Dishonorable. (Don't know the British equivalent of a Dishonorable Discharge.) Or even Leavenworth, er, military prison.

 

Colonel Tigh is my favorite character as he seems so realistic and killing his wife for collaborating was a very powerful scene. He has some great lines too.

 

In a world where the Emmys weren't a joke, Michael Hogan would have three of them for supporting actor. He's done some amazing powerful work on the show. It would been very easy just to play Saul Tigh as the boozy loser and phoned it in after the mini. But he didn't do that. I hope BSG's success--and critical notices--gets him some really good post-BSG parts. I definitely want to see more of him down here.

 

Yeah I forgot Starbuck & Baltar did the horizontal salsa...your right gross...

 

I remember that episode when I realize just who Starbuck was boinking. Both my wife and I said, "Eeew! Good God how could she do Baltar!?" I suppose I could understand how a guy like Baltar, with fame, money (and that incredible house!) could get the hotties pre-Cylon Holocaust.

 

But post? His sleaziness was just so obvious. Doing him was just more of Starbuck's self-destructive behavior. And we've all known people like her in real life. Really talented people who just hate themselves and make sure that they screw up every good thing in their lives; hence Starbuck marrying Anders after the night with Lee... (my eldest brother-in-law is one of them; he came close to making the Olympic team for '84 but shit his talent away on coke and booze. He's spent four of the last five years in jail or the joint)

 

 

The trial: True Lee's closing argument was good, but he drew attention to plot weakness in previous episodes. The Chief led a strike stopping fuel supplies in a time of war...and was let off? Starbuck just does what she likes, Lee disobeys orders whenever he feels like it, so the reason for letting Baltar off is why not?...we did with everyone else.

 

Again, in peace time, the Chief would have been Article 15'd (that's "non-judicial" punishment in the US military) if not court-martialed. And Lee certainly would have been court martialed for drawing his weapon on Tigh during the "coup" when Adama overthrew Rosalyn. And Callie getting only 30 days in the brig for popping a cap in Boomer #1. The real Army's putting people in prison for what's basically frat hazing that happened at Abu Ghraib! And Callie murders a POW and gets lightest of slaps on the wrist.

 

But the situation obviously isn't normal. It's completely insane. So a lot of the rules go right out the window. One the things I've loved about the show was the effects of the situation on the characters. It was completely unprecedented and Adama was obviously critically short on trained personnel--especially fighter pilots, it takes two years to train one in the real military, so people were going to get away with stuff they never would have in the "normal" world.

 

To stray a little bit, its well known that sexually active gays get the boot in the US military and have for a long, long time. But during WWII, there was such a shortage of trained personnel, that many gay men did serve and the brass simply looked the other way. I remember an interview with one GI who related that his platoon's First Sgt was totally out of the closet and never caught any grief from the officers.

 

 

Your right about Star Trek. Looking back at some point the whole concept jumped the shark.

 

Don't get me wrong, there were a lot of great NexGen eps. ("Best of Both Worlds" pops up immediately, but that was S3-4). But as the show got older, it was clear the writers were beginning to scramble to keep it fresh. I'm rewatching the entire series--thanks to Blockbuster--so I can see how the shows hold up 15+ yrs later.

 

But what really tore it for me, probably the lowest point in NexGen imo, was the not-even-close-to-subtle parallels with so-called Global Warming* when Starfleet discovered that Warp Drive was "damaging" the Space-Time Continuum (why not just call Q and have him/them fix it? Wasn't that one of their jobs?). I about fell out of my chair, mouth agape at that one. That's when I knew it was pretty much time to wrap it up. I really was not interested in political sermons from Gene Roddenberry.

 

Or the storyline with Work and Troi getting horizontal. I saw an interview with gorgeous Marina Sirtis were even she said, paraphrasing here, "I didn't get [the whole Worf-Deanna thing], nothing against Michael Dorn but Klingon's aren't exactly hot." And I was glad they finally let Riker and Troi get married in Star Trek X.

 

And while I will miss BSG, one good thing about it ending after four seasons is that--KOW--we won't see the show Jump the Shark as NexGen did in the above examples. They're going out on top and it's always better to see a series end on a high note rather than get cancelled because the production company was trying to milk every last dollar or wrack up as many eps as possible for syndication. (I guess, by the usual cable math, it's actually closer six seasons since Season 2 was 20 eps instead of 13, and Season 4 will actually be 2 cable seasons worth of eps).

 

*(I'm not in the least interesting in opening that debate. One either believes its happening, or one doesn't. And neither side will listen to the other, so there's practically no point in discussing it with people one doesn't agree with.)

 

Don't be too impressed with my post count PM. Most of its for posting naughty girlies... :D

 

Nothing wrong with that, especially since you have good taste. :thumbup:

 

:worthy: to you too...

 

Danke.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I think BSG always had an ending in view, it was just a matter of when. Don't forget the straight to Dvd movie they're doing between seasons 3 & 4. Its top quality in my view because Ron Moore actually had something to say...something he cared about saying, and he wasn't afraid of showing real life. I've read Sc-Fi all my life because of the exploration of ideas. Good ideas can keep me thinking for days, like BSG, and even if I get to a point of not agreeing with it, I find out why I don't agree with it.

 

I liked later Star Trek but so much of it was the same old formula. Tired ideas recycled just killed it for me. I remember watching the original series in the 60's when it first came out and even when very young I was riveted because of the ideas...the scenery could be crap but the ideas, mostly were good. To be fair when it sucked, it really sucked.

 

I remember the old Marvel comics of the 60's...the stories were amazing and its those old stories which are being turned into such successful films.

 

Going back to BSG. I like the Baltar character very much because he is so complicated, and sleazy , and full of his own interest. Starbuck? Seen it all years ago, as you say it goes back to the first Alien. The Dee character could be something very interesting, as she has great character...

 

And how about the season 3 cliffhanger...minor characters were cylons all along? I'm not buying into that for one minute, all red herrings and BS in my view...

 

PS...thanks for the good taste comment...the girls have to take all the credit I think...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

PS...thanks for the good taste comment...the girls have to take all the credit I think...

 

Yes they do, God bless 'em.

B)

 

I think BSG always had an ending in view

 

Oh, yeah, I agree with you there. I just think that there's more than one more season of stuff there. One more season of story to be told.

 

IMO, JMS made a BIG mistake when he closed up Babylon 5 after the "Five Year Arc" supposedly ended. In fact, it didn't end; the show just stopped. There were more loose ends that I can remember (the biggest, of course, being Garibaldi's revenge upon Bester).

 

The first of a series of straight-to-DVD B5 movies is do out soon. Hopefully we'll get some "closure" on some of the story lines.

 

Unfortunately, of course, the B5 feature crashed and burned with the deaths of Richard Biggs (Dr. Franklin) and Andy Katsulas (G'Kar). How could you do a NexGen movie if Brent Spiner and Marina Sirtis had died? It would have been, well, sacrilege to recast the roles. I hope JMS isn't dumb enough to recast Jerry Doyle, Claudia Christian, Biggs and Andy K.)

 

I just REALLY hope that Moore/Eick don't leave us hanging with lots of unaswered question.

 

And how about the season 3 cliffhanger...minor characters were cylons all along? I'm not buying into that for one minute, all red herrings and BS in my view...

 

Have to totally disagree with you on this one, friend. I loved the cliffhanger. The use of Hendrix's "All Along the Watchtower" was a stroke of genius. I remember listening to the snippets that we first heard. I knew it sounded familiar but I couldn't place it. As soon as Tigh said, "We've got to get out of here..." (I think that's the line), it clicked and I went, "That's the Dylan song covered by Hendrix!" My wife, not exactly a big fan of such like tunes didn't get it at all.

 

I actually have a theory about the four who are apparently Cylons: perhaps the "Missing Five" are really earlier generations of the "skin job" models? And perhaps there was a split, a civil war, some kind of conflict and they booked.

 

The Cylons, in the original series, weren't "created by Man", they were created by a reptillian race (apologies if you know all this) who were then exterminated by their own creations during a 1000 "yahren" (God I'm glad they ditched that silly time units in the new show!!) war against the humans.

 

In this show the Cylons and Colonials had apparently been fighting for a very, very long time. They would have had to be. You can't just conjure up fully functional clones/cyborgs in 40 years. It would probably take centuries to "get the balance right" (as Depeche Mode once put it in another context). To create units that would be indisguishable, even on a pretty deep inspection, from "organic" humans. And, even then, the Cylons appear to have only been capable of creating mules--i.e. they can't produce their own children.

 

So they need humanity. That's always been one of my opinions: the Cylons didn't completely annihilate humanity because they need something. After all, why create those "Baby Farms" where they imprisoned Starbuck? Why put Boomer/Sharon #2 with Helo in the hope that nature who, ah, take it's couse. Which, of course it would. Two people who find each other attractive, who have nothing else to do. Naturally, they're gonna end up doing the horizontal mambo.

 

(Boomer #1, she shot Adama; Boomer #2 is the one who got preggo by Helo; I numbered them to keep them straight in my head. I didn't give numbers to the other Sharon models (No. 8s?).

 

I think Dean Stockwell has to be given serious kudos for his stand out performance as "Brother Cavil." God that guy can play slimy evil so well. Really enjoy watching him.

 

I remember watching the original series in the 60's when it first came out and even when very young I was riveted because of the ideas...the scenery could be crap but the ideas, mostly were good. To be fair when it sucked, it really sucked.

 

Recently rewatched some of the best Old Trek eps. And yes, even as silly as the sets (every planet but Earth has a friggin' red sky?) and costumes could get, the good episodes are still so good*.

 

The sly humor in some of those episodes is also wonderful. The episode where Spock's brain gets, ah, stolen, is filled with humor. The concept was so overboard that I think David Gerrold (the writer, if memory serves) realized it couldn't be played straight. So they did it with a light touch and the result was wonderful. It could have been turgid and ridiculous. Instead it was fun.

 

I love the show and have been watching it since I was 3 or 4 years old. In fact, I don't remember a time when it was on some channel sometime. (I was born in '70, after it was cancelled.)

 

Another interesting factor--this one revealed by Ron Moore--is that if Nielsen had used the metrics back then that they use today, Old Trek would have been a monster hit and probably have run for 6 or 7 seasons. But the way they measured ratings back then they completely missed the big audience it was attracting. (And this was in the days before letter-writing campaigns could save a show--a la Cagney & Lacey in the 80s.

 

*And the quality of the DVD transfers is amazing. I was very impressed. (Which gives the lie to this bullshit that Lucasfilm put out about releasing the "original" Star Wars on DVD. They used the Laserdisc version and transfered that. As a result, it really doesn't look too good. The sound is good, but the picture leaves a lot be desire. The point is this: if Paramount could keep 80+ hours of film in pristine condition for ten years longer than the original Star Wars film, I don't buy for a minute that the latter's print was so "damaged" that they had to destroy it (!) in order to use it for the "revised" version released in 1997.

 

I mean, come on! The most valuable film in HISTORY and they just chucked it in a corner in a shoebox? It wasn't kept in some vault with xenon gas instead of oxygen (like the Mona Lisa or the Beatles' masters)? Come on George! At least make the bullshit plausible.

 

sorry, that's my little rant on Lucas' petulant refusal to release the version movie that so enthralled me at age 6 (and changed the entire industry forever). I have a lot of admiration for the man and I really liked Episodes 1-3, esp. "Revenge". But sometimes his arrogance gets the better of him. On the other hand he is worth $4 billion and, if one isn't careful when one has that kind of money, you soon find yourself surrounded solely by ass-kissers who do nothing but tell you how great you are, how brilliant you and and your very breath is essence of rose.

 

 

I've read Sc-Fi all my life because of the exploration of ideas. Good ideas can keep me thinking for days, like BSG, and even if I get to a point of not agreeing with it, I find out why I don't agree with it.

 

Ditto. The first book I ever bought (by myself with my own money) was in seventh grade. It was a collection of Arthur C. Clarke short stories called Expedition to Earth and it has the story "The Sentinel" that 2001 is based on. Unlike so many of Phillip Dick's short stories--which, imo, opinion are often terrible--"The Sentinel" is filled with the basic ideas that Clarke and Kubrick so brilliantly elaborated upon in 1968.

 

BTW, still have the book after 25, 26 years. I paid $1.95 for it! Most paperbacks for $7=$8.99 these days.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah my mistake. I didn't mean the BSG season 3 cliffhanger wasn't brilliant. Even bad BSG is 10 times better than most of the crap shown nowadays - just I didn't believe those characters were cyclons, perhaps Tigh though. The fact that I criticize something means I really like it - my 'nature of the beast'. And your right - using the Hendrix track - how cool is that.

 

Think with B5 they told JMS it would finish after season 4, so he wound up the Shadow War, and then they gave him season 5, so he brought in the telepath storyline.

 

I knew Richard Biggs had died, but not Andreas Katsulas. Sorry to hear that.

 

B5 ended 9 years ago - talk about tempus fugit.

 

Read a lot of Arthur C Clarke years ago, but nothing recently. Never read Philip K Dick stuff, but dunno why - never came my way. Loved Heinlein, Asimov - even his newer stuff - Frank Herbert, and am currently reading the new Dune book by his son & Kevin J Anderson. Waited 20 years for Dune 7, which would supposedly tie up the first 6 books, and then the main villains are revealed as characters from prequel books I haven't read. And there are 3 off them all 2 inches thick. So I'm wading through them at the moment. The writing quality's not a patch on the originals by Frank Hurbert, but what the hell, its better than nothing.

 

Agree with you about Dean Stockwell. He actually tries to get by on acting ability - amazing nowadays.

 

Paperbacks here in the UK cost

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
Ah my mistake. I didn't mean the BSG season 3 cliffhanger wasn't brilliant. Even bad BSG is 10 times better than most of the crap shown nowadays - just I didn't believe those characters were cyclons, perhaps Tigh though. The fact that I criticize something means I really like it - my 'nature of the beast'. And your right - using the Hendrix track - how cool is that.

 

Ahh, gotcha.

 

In a recent interview (sorry I don't have the link), Moore confirmed that Tigh, Anders, Tori & the Chief are Cylons, but refused to elborate further: e.g. whether they are somehow different from the 8 models we've seen; whether there was some kind of conflict, civil war?, between the Cylons, etc; gonna be wait and see.

 

As for the quality diff between BSG and 99.5% of the rest of so-called "dramas" on TV, you're right there. Although, you Brits do seem to enjoy higher quality dramas than we get (for the most part) here in the "Colonies". After all, Elizabeth I and Charles II: the Power and the Passion or [/i]The Last King[/i] (and the truncated version broadcast on A&E over here was called; I loved it so much I actually ordered the Brit version from Amazon UK so I could see it uncut; thank God WinDVD can "read" PAL).

 

Those two were absolute gems. Showtime's The Tudors is an Anglo-Irish-Canadian venture and is also very good--if not on the level of the first two I mentioned. Another excellent thing about Brit historical dramas is the relative historical accuracy. Obviously for a movie or a mini, certain history facts and persons are going to have to changed, fudged, adjusted etc. But Brit productions are, on the whole, more fastidious about trying to stick the basic facts. Perhaps that's because Brits are actually taught our common history which we Americans are not and thus can spot major historical boners more easily.

 

The only really big one I caught in Charles II was the script having James II--when Duke of York*--openly declaring his Catholicism. In fact, he didn't do this until after he succeeded to the throne. But it doesn't really slaughter the history because James was all but shouting his Catholicism from the rooftops before making it to the throne.

 

An example of an American film saying the hell with history (ironically directed by Aussie Ridley Scott), is Gladiator. As an action pic, it's a helluva a good time. As history, it's utter bullshit. Commodus (Joaquin Phoenix's character) did not murder his father Marcus Aurelius. And Commodus was not killed in the arena, he was murdered in his bath by a concubine and a slave who were afraid they'd die next. (Ironically, they were executed anyway by his successor). And there's no way that a powerful, political enemy of the reigning Emperor would have been allowed to continue living once he was discovered as having survived. He would have had his throat quietly cut or been poisoned. He would not have been allowed to become a Roman "rock star."

 

Sorry for the rant!

 

 

Think with B5 they told JMS it would finish after season 4, so he wound up the Shadow War, and then they gave him season 5, so he brought in the telepath storyline.

 

I knew Richard Biggs had died, but not Andreas Katsulas. Sorry to hear that.

 

B5 ended 9 years ago - talk about tempus fugit.

 

B5 was on a tenter hooks at the end of each of the first four seasons. Every seasons JMS & crew thought would be the last and it would be picked up. And of course during S4 he was told by WB TV that B5 would be canceled. Thank God, good taste prevailed.

 

this is how we got one of the greatest hours of TV in history, The Deconstruction of Falling Stars. (OK, the 140 yr old Delenn was pushing it, but the rest is gold, esp the tribute to A Cancticle to Leibowitz in the final segment.

 

Yeah, Andy K was a lifelong smoker and it killed him (unlike most smokers who die after their expiration dates) before his time. He also played a Romulan commander (Tomaluk, sp?) on several NexGen eps. I always considered G'Kar something of the moral compass of the show--after Narn's second occupation; in season 1 he was a violent, cunning, conniving politician and racist. His transformation was an amazing piece of acting. One which, of course, was completely ignored by the Emmys (shocking!!).

 

Yeah, it realize it amazing how long it's been since B5 wrapped. Way to prematurely imo. And not just mine. An email I got from Jerry Doyle expressed the same sentiments: he felt the show had one, probably two more seasons left--just wrapping up the mare's nest of loose ends that JMS left us with.

 

 

 

Paperbacks here in the UK cost
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Waited 20 years for Dune 7, which would supposedly tie up the first 6 books, and then the main villains are revealed as characters from prequel books I haven't read. And there are 3 off them all 2 inches thick. So I'm wading through them at the moment. The writing quality's not a patch on the originals by Frank Hurbert, but what the hell, its better than nothing.

 

'Fraid I have to part company here. I simply can't stand these Dune "prequels." Imo, Herbert jr has completely thrown out his father's 20 years of research and writing; a titanic effort that created one of the most fully realized fictional civilizations ever (it's the only one that comes close to LotR imo).

 

Instead of the complex interplay of economic, political, religious and historical factors, the young Herbert gives us:

 

Giant cyborg robots with the brains of humans controlling them!?! Holy Transformers, Batman!

 

A multi-galactic Skynet ("Omnius") that has turned humans into slaves?!?

 

WTF?!?

 

The Butlerian Jihad was not about a war against a Borgesque machine culture (Paramount should be suing!). It was a war against reliance on "thinking machines", a reliance that was turning human beings into a cerebral vegetables. It was also illustrative of how religious fanatics quickly become convinced that the "ends justify the means." We only have to remember 9/11 for a real-world example of the ethos of the Butlerian Jihad.

 

And Brian Herbert chucks all of this out the window to write cheap, third-rate space opera? I'm afraid I only read about 40% of The Butlerian Jihad before I gave up and gave it to my Dad. I just couldn't take seeing one of the series that helped me through a dreary, lonely adolescence, being milked for every last buck in it.

 

But people are buying them, so more will be written. What's Brian's problem? Dad not leave him enough in the will?

 

I admit I was awaiting a "Dune 7" when Herbert unexpectedly died (apparently of a broken heart as he died not long after his beloved wife). I could live with what he left us. I just can't live with the shallow, hackneyed volumes Brian's churning out for what are, doubtless, seven figure advances.

 

If you haven't already, buy The Dosadi Experiment. In it, Herbert creates a multi-species universe, unlike the H. sapiens only Duniverse. It's simply fantastic. It's a shame that he didn't get a chance to write more about this universe. There's a "preliminiary" volume about this universe called Whipping Star. I recommend you read that one after Dosadi. Strange as it may sound, the first book will make more sense after having read the second (plot-wise there's essentially no connection).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Pm...

 

I'm starting to agree with you on the prequel books. I'm half way through the first one and ground to a halt. Nothing new has been added and it just seems an exploitation of Frank's existing ideas. Thanks for the book recommendations...I've read every Frank Hurbert I could starting with, I think, Dragon in the Sea. Every Asimov, Heinlein, Van Voght, Poul Anderson as well along with Niven & Pournell - particular favourites of mine, and loads of others. Yeah, its been a while, but that other Frank Hurbert universe is starting to come back. Jorj X. McKie - yeah coming back now.

 

The nearest I get to historical fiction is Dr Who. The good stuff gets sold abroad, but the rubbish they put on here would fill a warehouse. I know facts get changed when a story is filmed. Even LOR was altered a bit and they got round the problem of showing Tom Bandabill by leaving him out, and the scouring of the shire. Pity.

 

An email from Mr Garibaldi eh? Nice.

 

We didn't bring in VAT, it was a French invention...

 

Yours, Aye...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The good stuff gets sold abroad, but the rubbish they put on here would fill a warehouse.

 

Another example of Sturgeon's Law: "90% of everything is shit." There's another SF writer who you should check out. Absolutely brilliant. Especially his take on the next step in human evolution, More Than Human. He's got the intellectual brillance of a Niven or a van Vogt coupled with the humanity of Faulkner. You could almost call his work "SF Gothic." One of his short story titles, and my personal fav, was: "If All Men Were Brothers, Would You Let Your Sister Marry One?" A take on incest considered quite daring in the 50s.

 

Finally, if you haven't already, give Cordwainer Smith a try. His real name was Paul Linebarger and his life was as fascinating as his fiction.

 

He created what is probably the most original, most brilliant and most bizarre fictional universe ever. Except for one novel, this vast canvas of thousands of years is told in short stories. A lot of people don't find him to their taste. But if you do, you'll find yourself ordering his "Complete Short Stories". There are a number of shorter, paperback collections out there as well.

 

 

I know facts get changed when a story is filmed. Even LOR was altered a bit and they got round the problem of showing Tom Bandabill by leaving him out, and the scouring of the shire. Pity.

 

Could NOT agree with you MORE about the "The Scourging of the Shire." I understand why Tom was left out (as well as the Barrow Wights and the "Old Forest"), while fascinating on paper, it really didn't advance the movie in any absolutely necessary way. And it probably would have entailed a lot of exposition about the Maiar and how Gandalf, Saruman and Tom are Maia... I did like the fact that the Valar were referenced several times with no lame explanations....

 

I wanted Jackson to do it so badly but I just knew he wouldn't. It should have been done but it would have added at least another 20-30 mins to the RotK. Still, it's always been my favorite chapter in the entire "book" (since, of course, it's one book that was chopped into three by Unwin-sp?).

 

Many have speculated that it was Tolkein's allegory about "fascism" (by which they mean, of course, Hiterlism); he always vehemently denied this. And after having read it closely at least a dozen, maybe more, times, I agree with JRR. The parallels simply aren't there.

 

Saurman didn't really do anything to the Shire he didn't try to do to Rohan, i.e., establish a monarchy of his own. (Tho' I've always wondered that if Saruman had succeeded in all his plans, how would he have dealt with Sauron? After all, Sauron had something like 500,000 troops (250,000 of which were hurled at Gondor at the Battle of the Pelennor Field--'scuse the spelling, too late to grab the book). Saruman had 10,000, almost all of whom were slaughtered by the Rohirrim and the Ents--and I was overjoyed to see that the full involvement of the Ents in the Battle of the Hornburg was in the "extended" version.

 

We didn't bring in VAT, it was a French invention...

 

Why doesn't that surprise me? :rolleyes: Leave it to the French to figure out the best way to kill jobs, bankrupt companies and wreck their economy.

 

They've got permanent 12% unemployment. Their government takes 50% of the GDP (the US gov't, by contrast, takes only about 22%, about 35% counting state/local/property taxes).

 

ONE OUT OF FOUR (!) people under 30 have NEVER had a job in France. NEVER! They've been on welfare the entire time since getting out of lycee or college. That's staggering.

 

And they accuse we "Anglo-Saxons" of heartless and evil economic policies.

 

OK, let's see:

 

US unemployment rate: 5%

 

UK unemployment rate: 6%

 

Who's fucking up here? Us or the frogs? <ribbit>

 

 

 

 

Hi Pm...

 

I'm starting to agree with you on the prequel books. I'm half way through the first one and ground to a halt. Nothing new has been added and it just seems an exploitation of Frank's existing ideas. Thanks for the book recommendations...I've read every Frank Hurbert I could starting with, I think, Dragon in the Sea. Every Asimov, Heinlein, Van Voght, Poul Anderson as well along with Niven & Pournell - particular favourites of mine, and loads of others. Yeah, its been a while, but that other Frank Hurbert universe is starting to come back. Jorj X. McKie - yeah coming back now.

 

The nearest I get to historical fiction is Dr Who. The good stuff gets sold abroad, but the rubbish they put on here would fill a warehouse. I know facts get changed when a story is filmed. Even LOR was altered a bit and they got round the problem of showing Tom Bandabill by leaving him out, and the scouring of the shire. Pity.

 

An email from Mr Garibaldi eh? Nice.

 

We didn't bring in VAT, it was a French invention...

 

Yours, Aye...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.