blutach Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 Something is eating my +RWs for my Camcorder! They are standard 1.4Gb per side. I like the +RWs because they supposedly auto-finalise. They cost a bucket (A$18 per double sided DVD) and are driving me bananas. Here's the story - put in blank and the cam recognises the DVD as unformatted and "formats" the disk without a problem - I can tell that it's not a full format 'cos it takes only about 15 seconds. I can then shoot some video. Turn off the Camcorder and turn it on again and the disk can not be recognised! I noticed it did not auto finalise. Not sure if I turned it off when the "Access" light was lit (this supposedly fucks them up but good), but I don't think so. Window$ won't even recognise there is a disk there (this is usual for an unfinalised DVD-R/W but not for +R which are supposed to auto-finalise). Question: Can ImgBurn help me format these back to the start so I can at least experiment on them? I believe they use the DVD+RW spec 1.2 which is UDFFS. Thanks for any help. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIGHTNING UK! Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 Put the disc in the drive and see if ImgBurn can see it. So long as you don't see 'Device Not Ready' in the status bar you should be able to perform a full format on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blutach Posted July 30, 2006 Author Share Posted July 30, 2006 It can be seen - but will ImgBurn lay down the "correct" format for the Camcorder? ie DVD+RW 1.2 If so, I presume a full format is what I should be doing? Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volvofl10 Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 can you recognise a brand new disc on the PC first , then format it , THEN use it in the camcorder ? what happens when you try to use it for the 2nd lot of filming in the camcorder then ? also, does your Camcorder,PC and optical drives all recognise the 8cm ( i presume) +RW discs. what camcorder is it Blu ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blutach Posted July 30, 2006 Author Share Posted July 30, 2006 The disks are SONY. Here's the ImgBurn ID. When inserted in the PC, Windows can't read them (similar to an unfinalised -R). You can clearly see the minute or so of the recorded vid on them. As for a brand new disk, I am fresh out, now. Only got buggered ones. The Camcorder definitely recoignises them first time round - it's a Hitachi DZ-BX35E (entry level cam for I bought for Firey). And one side of the another disk I have still reads well and is recognised in the PC and cam. Trying to run a Tools-Drive-Close-Session now. Will report back. EDIT: Didn't help. Windows still can't read it and neither can the Cam. Bit stumped on this one. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blutach Posted July 30, 2006 Author Share Posted July 30, 2006 The latest - did a fast format/compatible close in DVDIP and PC still can't recognise it. Still says pout a disk in drive but then comes up with this: I think I've trashed another disk Doing full erase in ImgBurn now. EDIT: Erase completed OK but neither PC or Cam recognises disk. Only ImgBurn and DVDIP. Close disk gives me "Invalid field in CDB" error. Even old Ner0 reckons the disk is OK and ready to burn. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volvofl10 Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 VR or VF mode may be something to do with it , found this HERE EDIT your LG drive should handle VR /RAM mode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blutach Posted July 30, 2006 Author Share Posted July 30, 2006 It's a DVD+RW and can only handle VF mode (which is standard DVD-VIDEO). Strange thing is forst time I popped it in, it knew it was unformatted, did a quick format and allowed me to take some vid. Turned unit off and on and couldn't recognise disk. Only diff now is that ImgBurn shows formatted as "Yes". But still no joy. Maybe I should burn something onto it and see how that goes. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volvofl10 Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 just found this as well . its a hitachi spec sheet pdf file, but read the DVD+rw section, it says, "No finalising needed" HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blutach Posted July 30, 2006 Author Share Posted July 30, 2006 Success (of sorts). Used ImgBurn to copy a file onto the DVD. Windows now sees the disk! As you can see, it shows it as closed with no space left. IB shows the following: But ... the bloody cam refuses to recognise it. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blutach Posted July 30, 2006 Author Share Posted July 30, 2006 just found this as well . its a hitachi spec sheet pdf file, but read the DVD+rw section, it says,"No finalising needed" HERE Yeah - I read the book back to front and that's what attracted me to the +RWs - that I could shoot something, not fill the disk up and just play it on a stand alone player. The idea is that it auto finalises (so the book says). Thanks for the help btw volvo. Much appreciated Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volvofl10 Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 your welcome Blu , just sorry i cant solve the problem for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfcrule1972 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I know it's not going to fix the actual problem but is there any chance the camcorder is still in warranty ?? I would be tempted to call their customer services and kick off that it's knackering the discs and see if they know - it might be a common problem mate..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIGHTNING UK! Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 So if you do a full format in ImgBurn the camera then won't burn to the disc?! Surely it can't expect brand new unformatted media each time?! If it does let you burn again, don't worry too much if window can't read it. Try the disc in ISOBuster or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blutach Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 @LFC - the cam is brand new and has been taken back twice now! @LUK - I did a quick format, but got the "have to do a full format" message because it was unformatted. Still, the cam can't recognise it, much less burn it. Will try again. EDIT: ISOBuster shows this: Where's the filesystem gone???? (No files were found, showing the format worked - sorta) EDIT2: Just did a full format in ImgBurn and ISOBuster shows the same message (every sector is 00s). Highly confused now - I thought ImgBurn laid down a filesystem. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIGHTNING UK! Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 No, the camera would put the filesystem in place when it initialises the disc or starts the recording. Maybe there's an option in the menu somewhere to wipe / prepare a 'used' disc for recording onto? Traditional formatting just erases all the data and puts zero's on all the sectors. IsoBuster is only useful AFTER you've actually got it recording something to the media - and if windows can't read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfcrule1972 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 @LFC - the cam is brand new and has been taken back twice now! Shit - was it the same problem before ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blutach Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 Yeah - same problem. Media is OK, according to ISOBuster. The bloody cam just don't know it's there - it's like I gotta bit of plastic in the cam, not a DVD. I wonder if these disks come preformatted with a special kinda format for Camcorders? Is there a way to lay down the filesystem now? Maybe the cam would recognise it then. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfcrule1972 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I don't know anyone with a camcorder that records to DVDs, but the same error 3x would make me question the build quality of it. I admire your persistance in trying to get it fixed but you really shouldn't have to be doing any of this should you ? I was looking to get one of these before we go to Florida next time - might have to be careful of the make if they are fussy little sods like yours is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornholio7 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 maybe this isn't quite the same but i used an xD flash card and formatted it through my printer with windows, when i put it into the camera , it wouldn't recognise it, when i used the camera to format it it made folders to put pictures and video in , maybe this camcorder needs a similar thing? just an idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIGHTNING UK! Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 The discs are just normal 8cm discs aren't they? There's nothing on them, and as you can use non-rewritable discs, there never could be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blutach Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 Yup - normal 8cm. But I have a feeling the cam likes to see its own IDs in the filesystem area (na dnot ImgBurn etc). Maybe it keys in on these. But that does not explain why it won't recognise a disk that has 1.4Gb of zeros on it and say "OK, let's format it". Maybe it see the format is "yes" and this confuses it. Shitting me, LFC, but a lousy disk and cam aren't gunna better me. Strange thing is the -Rs work a treat (so far), but I really liked the idea of auto finalisation with the +RWs. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blutach Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 OK - here's some comparisons. I took the data from the side that was working and made an ISO from it. Here's the comparisons (note the filesystem ID and the sizes of the DVD): THIS IS WORKING: THIS DISK DOESN'T LOAD: I wonder whether I should try to make another ISO but this time do a track at once burn. Will that leave the disk in a similar shape to the working one perhaps? Note also the different BG format status in DVDIP - I am not at all sure this can be changed - also not sure if it's important. Thanks again for any advice. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIGHTNING UK! Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 If ImgBurn sees a VIDEO_TS folder, the 'Fix Common Problems' option will add an AUDIO_TS folder to the root. It does that regardless of your answer to those prompts - as it's in a totally different part of the program. I'm sure it was just for testing purposes but I don't get why you were burning anything to that +RW in ImgBurn anyway. If it was going to work with anything, it would be with a clean/formatted disc. Unlike hdds, you're not supposed to put an empty filesystem in place before burning this stuff. The device itself always does that. Surely there has to be an option to prepare / wipe an already formatted disc? They can't expect people to use new ones all the time. They always have options for clearning memory cards and I'd have thought they'd do the same for +RW now that they use that media rather than the miniDV tapes. Kinda glad I went for the DCR-HC96 (still miniDV) the other day when I got one for work. I didn't like the idea of burning to disc whilst moving a camera around - the two just didn't seem to fit together very well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blutach Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 Well, I can report success (of sorts). I finalised the only disk that was working and made an image of that (this time it's a full 1.4Gb). Burnt it to one of the "bad" disks. Reckoned it HAD to work - after all, it's a bit for bit copy - filesystem and all. And presto, it loaded up in the cam!! (A review in DVDIP and ISOBuster showed comparability). The finalised disk says "completed" in BG Format field but still reckons there's 26.5Mb free (strange that). Anyway, after loading the burnt side, I used the cam to unfinalise and format. So far, so good. But there's more .... (steak knives ad here) Took disk out. Just to be sure put it back in - remember, it's a newly formatted disk now by the cam (and Windows sees its folders too, btw). And - well, shit happens - but the cam doesn't recognise it's own formatted disk. I think the only conclusion to make is that this cam and these disks just don't go well together. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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