OKAY... I've got ANOTHER one...

[dbminter]

Well, I figured it out! I had to develop my own FUCKING MATHEMATICAL COROLLARY, but, I did it! It takes into account all factors save for the one about the drive suddenly being able to remember the last letter it had used. And, I believe I can chalk that one up to an error on my part, though it requires one egregious break of Occham's Razor. However, I'm not inclined to test it at the moment, but, it's as good enough as damn it. That the factor default installation setting for the first system optical drive WAS the same as the letter as I had designated for the drive in my own environment. I HAD to get that drive letter from somewhere, so, why wouldn't I have used the same one the manufacturer of my machine did? I don't really care too much about that anomaly because I have taken all the other weird factors of this case and came up with something that works for all the test cases and solves the remaining problems.

 

 

After version 6.5.722, ZoneLabs introduced a major and unimaginably unrelated error into their antispyware engines in ZoneAlarm. It is NOT present in the 722 main installer, as near as I can remember. IF it is, then, it is easily disabled by simply disabling the antispyware to start with, I forget. I DO know that it is present IF you update the antispyware engine after installing 722. Updating the antivirus only updates the definitions. BUT, for 722, updating the antispyware portion updates the engine because ZoneAlarm needs to reboot the system. Which causes the problem ONLY after this update. Installing the latest build, 737, then, causes the problem from the start BECAUSE this downloaded latest antispyware engine would be IN the installer package. Because if you install 737, nothing is downloaded for the antispyware engine, because no reboot is required after updating it. This also explained the weird anomaly with the "regular" flavor of ZA. I had wondered why the plain version of ZA would exhibit this behavior since it does not have antispyware installed. Because it DOES! The "regular"/free flavor of ZoneAlarm is actually the installer for ZoneAlarm Pro because it lets you use it either as a freebie or as a 15 day trial, where you enter a serial number to activate ZoneAlarm Pro. Thus, the "regular" installer is the same as the Pro installer, which would contain the antispyware engine in it even if you don't want it... AND it also goddamn INSTALLS the antispyware engine even if you NEVER try the 15 day free trial! IDIOTS! Because the problem IS present in ZoneAlarm's free version, but NOT in the ZoneAlarm Antivirus version. DESPITE the confusing name, it actually means ZoneAlarm WITH Antivirus. But, ZAA does NOT contain the antispyware engine because they want you to pay more to get it with ZA Pro. So, the antispyware engine is NOT present in the ZA AV version but IS in the Pro version, so, it WON'T be in the installer package for ZA AV but WILL be present in the one for ZA Pro. And, since ZA Free is just the same installer package AS ZA Pro, that explains that one anomaly.

 

 

I cannot explain what possible FUCKER error they introduced into the antispyware engine. Because, why should that and ONLY that affect the drive letters on the system? That's why I invented the term fucker error. But, it is there, and, I can finally isolate WHAT triggers it. Again, not WHY the error is there, but, why it remained so elusive. Because, as I said, the problems being manifested were NOT related to that area at all UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES. But, with fucker errors, you never know. And, since I can regress to Build 727 of ZA Pro's 15 day trial AND not have the problem UNLESS I use the antispyware/update the antispyware after install AND since it is NOT present in ZA AV's 15 day trial AND since ZA AV HAS NO antispyware engine, I can finally pinpoint that the cause and effect are not necessarily related. One does cause the other, but, there is NO reason why it should, save for the definition of fucker error. Plus, the extact triggering mechanism is exceeding unique.

 

 

What causes the syptoms to appear from the ZA bug is not unique to any one USB device. It is NOT caused BY just the first USB HD or the 2nd. As I discovered, ANY USB drive can trigger it! The external DVD drive, even a USB thumb drive. What causes the problem is NOT any device but HOW MANY ARE ATTACHED AT A GIVEN TIME! And, the results will NOT be manifested by ANYTHING but the Daemon Tool's virtual drives driver! Hence why the problem on appeared in Daemon Tools and Alcohol. Because use the same virtual drivers driver.

 

 

To FINALLY start to understand the problem, we must first set some definitions. A drive here will be defined as a fixed disk of some sort. This will include DVD's, which normally aren't really fixed disks, but, it helps here, so, I'm going to use it. Every current Windows drive will have at least 1 fixed disk, the drive it boots from. Now, remember, that a fixed disk CAN have more than one partition. So, that's why I wanted to clarify the drives term. In this system, Drive 0, aka the first fixed disk, the one that has the booting partition, Windows, on it, has 5 partitions. But, the number of partitions is NOT important initially. It BECOMES important IF the number of partitions means that the number of drive letters assigned by Windows comes CLOSE to be the number of the drive letter I normally assign to the first DVD drive, which is R. That's the ONLY reason why the DVD drive letters kept changing It only mattered if the number of assigned partitions was close to reaching the 18th letter of the alphabet. THAT'S why it only sometimes appeared to be affecting the DVD drives. The DVD drives were ONLY being affected if the number of partitions came close to R. The drives that were ACTUALLY being changed were the virtual ones in Daemon Tool's. BUT, they were only being changed as a result of this error in ZA being triggered by the following unique series of system attributes.

 

 

Where N is the number of drives, remember that being fixed disc, then, if N+1 virtual drives are assigned to Daemon Tools, then, the bug in ZA's antispyware engine kicks in. WHY it affects this cause, as I said, I don't know. I only know this is what triggers it. Repeated tests have shown this. For instance, N will always be at least 1, as I said above. The first drive in my system will always be the SATA HD. That's Drive 1. In a case where only 1 ATA DVD drive was installed, Drive 2, then this was the case: if only 1 of the USB HD's was turned on, then, nothing happened. BUT, if I turned on USB HD 2 OR the external USB DVD, and this was where the pieces FINALLY started falling into place, then IF I had MORE than 2 Daemon Tools virtual drives installed, the problem started on Windows start. THAT'S where the N+1 factor became important. For example, when I reconnected the 2nd ATA DVD drive, that set the number of Drives in my system to 3. So, ANY number of virtual drives I had installed was enough to cause the problem. Setting the number to 0 fixed it. Or uninstalling ZoneAlarm did.

 

 

For more valediction of my results take the following test cases below:

 

Attached drives

Fixed: Drive 1 (SATA HD) and Drive 2 (PATA DVD 1)

Virtual: 3

Results: When USB HD 1 was turned on with non ZA AV version installed, no problem. WITH USB HD 1 turned on, then turning on EITHER USB HD 2 or the USB DVD caused the problem.

 

Attached drives

Fixed: Drive 1 (SATA HD) and Drive 2 (PATA DVD 1)

Virtual: 2

Results: When USB HD 1 was turned on with non ZA AV version installed, no problem. WITH USB HD 1 turned on, then turning on EITHER USB HD 2 or the USB DVD did NOT cause the problem because the number of Virtual drives was NOT N+1 or greater.

 

Attached drives

Fixed: Drive 1 (SATA HD), Drive 2 (PATA DVD 1), and Drive 3 (PATA DVD 2)

Virtual: 3

Results: No need to turn on ANY of the drives USB HD 1, USB HD 2, or USB DVD. The problem was present. Changing the Virtual drives to anything but 0 and the problem showed up.

 

Attached drives

Fixed: Drive 1 (SATA HD) and Drive 2 (PATA DVD 1)

Virtual: 3

Results: When inserting USB PEN DRIVE, the problem resulted.

 

 

With all of these cases, with ZA uninstalled OR ZA 6.5.722 with NO updates installed or ZA AV 6.5.737 ONLY installed, the problem did NOT show up at all.

 

 

So, that's the bottom line. The problem is with ZoneAlarm's antispyware engines greater than 722's installed version. And, with all that, the solutions range from the simple to the expensive.

 

 

1.) do not use ZoneAlarm at ALL

2.) use ONLY ZoneAlarm 6.5.722 and NOT use the antispyware feature

3.) use ONLY ZoneAlarm 6.5.722 and use the antispyware feature BUT NEVER update the feature

4.) replace both USB HD drives with one that has the same as or greater space than the two combined

5.) replace ONLY the internal HD, keeping the enclosure, of one of the USB HD's with a drive that has the same amount of space or greater as the sizes of the two USB HD's combined

 

 

Using no firewall at all is not an option. ZA's was the best of those I'd found, but, my only other experiences were Microsoft's and Norton's. And they speak for themselves. Using ZA is still an option, though, even though some features will be unavailable or not updatable, because ONLY ZoneLabs can fix this as they introduced it. The last two options require money. But, are a viable one.

 

 

PHEW!

[Pain_Man]

Double post; blame Firefox/the forum.

 

 

Not to digress, but this happens to me too occasionally. Since it hasn't happened with other chatboard sftw, I wonder if it's not an Invision thing?

[Pain_Man]

though it requires one egregious break of Occam's Razor

 

 

To be fair to ol' Bill, the "razor" is more of a guideline. Plus, we're not even sure he's the source.

 

The proposition, in it's modern form, doesn't appear in any of his extant works (tho' since he died in prison accused of heresy, it's possible other works were destroyed by the Inquisition).

 

I should probably change my middle name to Tangent.

Edited September 7, 2006 by Pain_Man

[Pain_Man]

SHIT! There's no answer! There's NO FUCKING ANSWER!

 

 

The problem is too complicated! It can't be replicated with any kind of certainty! It's completely random!

 

 

DUDE! That's just a metaphor for life: entirely random with no fucking answers.

[Pain_Man]

Didn't realize all those hassles with NTFS,

 

 

Yeah, never mention NTFS to Minty. He goes apoplectic.

[dbminter]

REGARDLESS of the name, I was making a major leap outside the realm of cognitive thinking. It needed to be addressed, so, I addressed it.

 

 

As for the double posting, I've seen IE do it a few times during those tests on a virgin partition without Firefox installed. I am more inclined to blame it not necessarily on the board software entirely. But, an oversight in it. That it doesn't take, properly, into account connections that aren't, well, connecting. It should be written to check for such double posts immediately one after the other.

[Pain_Man]

You're the programmer.

 

I use IE so seldom, usually only when I can't get something to download via FF, that I hadn't noticed.

 

FF isn't perfect, but you don't have to update it every .068 seconds (anyone name the cineamatic allusion???).

 

REGARDLESS of the name, I was making a major leap outside the realm of cognitive thinking. It needed to be addressed, so, I addressed it.

 

 

As for the double posting, I've seen IE do it a few times during those tests on a virgin partition without Firefox installed. I am more inclined to blame it not necessarily on the board software entirely. But, an oversight in it. That it doesn't take, properly, into account connections that aren't, well, connecting. It should be written to check for such double posts immediately one after the other.

[dbminter]

Ah, BUT, do YOU know why it's .068 seconds?

 

 

First, the answer is Star Trek: First Contact. (Good one, God.) BUT, I find it more interesting that 0.068 seconds is also the standard quartz oscillation that is used in the processors of the modern electronic parking meters developed by POM, the creators of the original analog models in the 1930's. Somehow, I find it cannot be coincidence that the two references involve processing time. But, you never know? After all, I just happened to see First Contact for the first time a mere few hours after have had sex for the first time. Imagine the irony in that?

[kevdriver]

errrrr, db, think I'll come up there for a visit mate, hit a couple of bars with you, meet some people............. you know......... Get you out for a bit............

[dbminter]

Only if you bring the avatar along. It's about the best I'm going to get. I'd be enraged to violence... if you weren't so undeniably correct about my pathetic state.

 

 

Never been to a bar. Don't want to drink. Never saw alcohol as a way to escape my problems. I won't go anywhere near the territory my dad went into.

 

 

Actually, I take that back. Once, when I was like 12, I was taken to a bar by my grandfather. He and my grandmother were watching me while my mother worked one day over the summer. The truck we were driving around in broke down, so, we had to go inside a bar where my granddad met with many from the VFW and Legion.

 

 

Oh, and, 10 years ago, someone I knew who ran a video rental store for years decided to get out while the getting was good. She held a going out of business party on the store's last day. It was at a local bar. I only remember not drinking anything but RC and playing Bohemian Rhapsody on the jukebox.

 

 

"I'm just a poor boy; nobody loves me. He's just a poor boy, from a poor family. Spare him his life from this monstrosity!"

[spinningwheel]

Only if you bring the avatar along. It's about the best I'm going to get. I'd be enraged to violence... if you weren't so undeniably correct about my pathetic state.

 

 

Never been to a bar. Don't want to drink. Never saw alcohol as a way to escape my problems. I won't go anywhere near the territory my dad went into.

 

 

Actually, I take that back. Once, when I was like 12, I was taken to a bar by my grandfather. He and my grandmother were watching me while my mother worked one day over the summer. The truck we were driving around in broke down, so, we had to go inside a bar where my granddad met with many from the VFW and Legion.

 

 

Oh, and, 10 years ago, someone I knew who ran a video rental store for years decided to get out while the getting was good. She held a going out of business party on the store's last day. It was at a local bar. I only remember not drinking anything but RC and playing Bohemian Rhapsody on the jukebox.

 

 

"I'm just a poor boy; nobody loves me. He's just a poor boy, from a poor family. Spare him his life from this monstrosity!"

 

db;

Damn, just like Chubs in the movie "Goonies"...true, heartfelt confessions of misspent youth and total angst...but his hand was in a blender.....lmfao.

[polopony]

errrrr, db, think I'll come up there for a visit mate, hit a couple of bars with you, meet some people............. you know......... Get you out for a bit............

count me in, while candy is dandy Liquor is quicker

[dbminter]

I wasn't aware I had lapsed idiotic into stories from my youth. No, those are worse. Going as far back as 5th grade, when they first started to notice things I kept denying myself. And using them as their source of derision. Or, rather, I THOUGHT was theirs at one time, rather than being the tools of another. And, then, when the teachers started joining in in later years, oh, that felt great!

 

 

No, I was more along the lines of Sloth. Admittedly, I looked slightly better. Ironically enough, I am as tall as the football player who played him. I actually saw The Goonies in theaters. Even played The Goonies II regularly at the arcade and it was one of my earlier NES cartridges.

[spinningwheel]

I knew it.....

[dbminter]

Well, you got one up on me, then... I'm not aware what you knew.

[spinningwheel]

Nor shall you, until the final Beta is produced and ImgBurn reigns supreme in the land.

[Groundrush]

Nor shall you, until the final Beta is produced and ImgBurn reigns supreme in the land.

 

 

Doesn't It already reign supreme.........

[spinningwheel]

Doesn't It already reign supreme.........

 

AHHHH...very true grasshopper, but the final Beta is yet to be produced...and as such...it has not reached the extreme peak of true Nirvanalike perfection that is possible within this mortal existence that we call Earth....

[lfcrule1972]

wtf ??

[Groundrush]

Zen and the art of Imageburning........ =))

[spinningwheel]

Zen and the art of Imageburning........

 

 

True...true...wholeheartedly true. Sit back and contemplate what a wonderful experience it would be to just sit back and contemplate.....

[lfcrule1972]

My mate is contemplated, he takes to clear it.....

 

[Groundrush]

=))