We used to Nazi salute the American flag!

[dbminter]

Oh, man, I had forgotten about this!

 

 

This absolutely FLOORED me the first time I learned of it! Even I had forgotten about it until I stumbled across a photo. It is conveniently left out of discussing the history of saying the Pledge Of Allegience in American schools, that's for sure!

 

 

From 1892 until 1942, we used to "Nazi salute" the American flag when saying the Pledge! Called the Bellamy salute after the guy who initiated it, we used to not say the Pledge with our hands on our hearts. From 1892 until 1942, we used a Roman salute. (It's actually called a Roman salute, but, most associate with the Nazi's for their use of the Roman salute as a military greeting, as its original intent in Rome.)

 

 

Actual notes, apparently, distributed to schools on what to do:

 

At a signal from the Principal the pupils, in ordered ranks, hands to the side, face the Flag. Another signal is given; every pupil gives the flag the military salute -- right hand lifted, palm downward, to a line with the forehead and close to it. Standing thus, all repeat together, slowly, ?I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands; one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.? At the words, ?to my Flag,? the right hand is extended gracefully, palm upward, toward the Flag, and remains in this gesture till the end of the affirmation; whereupon all hands immediately drop to the side.

 

 

So, the time I actually DID Nazi salute the American flag during Pledge in German III class was legitimate, I guess! I wasn't Nazi saluting the American flag; I was Bellamy saluting it.

[lfcrule1972]

right hand lifted, palm downward, to a line with the forehead and close to it

 

 

 

Now I would have interpreted that to be an instruction for a normal salute like this,

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rather than the arm extended salute associated with the Nazi's ? However if you Google image "Bellamy Salute" you get this.....

 

 

 

[dbminter]

That last image was the photo that reminded me of the whole Bellamy salute thing.

[lfcrule1972]

Yet the instruction says nothing about extending the arm outwards does it ?

[dbminter]

ACK!

 

 

I completely misread it! Forget what I had previous said in my original version of this reply here and have conveniently deleted it.

 

 

Right hand lifted, palm downward, to a line with the forehead and close to it means that photo at the bottom. It is poorly worded, but, the bit about close to it is throwing you, and at first me off. The last bit about close to it means the tip of the line with the forehead to the top of the fingers. A better way to have said the whole thing is the arm is held extended outwards at a 45 degree angle.

[lfcrule1972]

Link doesn't work db.....

[dbminter]

It did when I put it in, but, I've deleted it since then. I completely misread, well, everything. Please stick with my edited version of the post for a correct one.

[dbminter]

Anyway, yeah, from 1892 until 1942, we Nazi saluted/Roman saluted the American flag as part of the Pledge. We adopted the hand over the heart because it soon became too associated with the Nazis to do the old salute. But, it's kind of hard not to be chilled slightly when you see that photo of kids Nazi saluting the American flag, isn't it?

[lfcrule1972]

It's not a great image from history I agree.....

[dbminter]

This makes me wonder. Is there an equivalent of the Pledge Of Allegience to the flag of the United States of America in England? Is there a daily morning ceremony where kids in Britain in school have to go through with the British flag? Part of A Levels? If so, what's it called and what are the words?

 

 

I've always been a little uneasy about the Pledge. I'm not against it, but, I just find it a tad confusing. It seems a bit hypocritical to go through a sort of memorized Catholic mass type of procedure every morning to pledge your allegience to the government when you're given the freedom, supposedly, to do what you want. I mean, it's a sort of indoctrination. However, it's not forced to do, so, that's why I don't have a problem. But, just try NOT saying it. You'll be so ostricized by teachers and other students you might as well do it. And, of course, my merely discussing topics of debate like this in today's current political and ruling environment in my country makes me a target as a traitorous anti-American giving aid and comfort to the enemy, obviously.

[dbminter]

You something else that's kind of scary? Is how the salute has also been adopted by Hezbollah...

[dbminter]

Now, here's the weird thing. The instructions for the Bellamy salute actually seem to indicate that you are supposed to have your palms up, as if you're lifting the flag by sheer force of will, radiated out from your upward palm. Also, it seems that it really did start with the hand over the heart, and then went into the other gestures.

 

 

"Begun with the right hand over the heart during the phrase 'I pledge allegiance.' The arm is then extended toward the flag at the phrase "to the flag" and remains outstretched during the rest of the pledge, with the palm facing upward."

 

 

Other versions also also began with the right hand in a military salute of some kind. There doesn't seem to be any solid, consistent information... probably because the real answers don't look nice. Because in that photo above, it is obvious that the palm is facing down, not lifting the flag, and thus, is a Roman/Nazi salute.

[lfcrule1972]

Nah there is nothing similar here in England db, as for you and the comments on the pledge it could be worse, there was a bit on our news yesterday about a student in the US with a "kill Bush" myspace site that had a visit from the FBI at school

[dbminter]

Yeah, it could always be worse. In Germany, it is a criminal offense to just even say the words hail victory. Say "Sieg heil" and you'll get 3 years in prison. Just for saying some words!

[JasonFriday13]

3 years in prison just for saying 'hail victory'? Might have to go to germany and post the same words here on the forums (just to see if I go to jail).

[lfcrule1972]

I wouldn't Jason - the women have armpits as hairy as the men !!! :&

[Groundrush]

I wouldn't Jason - the women have armpits as hairy as the men !!! :&

 

=)) Yep, i lived there for 4 years and even had a hairy armpitted girlfriend.

Edited October 19, 2006 by Groundrush

[Groundrush]

EDIT. double post.

Edited October 19, 2006 by Groundrush

[dbminter]

Yet, there is actually a city in Onatario, Canada called Swastika.