Smoking in the car? Nanny staters strike again...

[Pain_Man]

It just gets sillier and sillier. =)) That is, it would be silly if it weren't actually happening...

 

The Nanny-staters are at it again in both Maine and Connecticut.

 

 

Smoking in Car with Kid Is Murder

 

CT lawmaker wants to ban smoking in cars

 

 

How long is it before, they're busting down the doors to make sure we're not "abusing" our children or "killing" ourselves?

 

Our ancestors, who fought, bled and died for freedom in this country would be turning over in their graves if they knew how easily their descendents are surrendering the freedoms their sacrifices paid for...

Edited January 10, 2007 by Pain_Man

[kirk1701™]

Hay PM I think the boss needs to open a debate forum just for us before we turn this place into a political asylum

 

To add to your post, It shouldn't need to come to lawmakers passing laws to keep people from smoking in the car where there are kids. People should have enough sense not to endanger their kids life by having the kids breathe their second hand smoke in the first place.

 

I know because I've been there as a kid myself, been there long before there were any warnings out about the dangers of smoking no less the dangers of second hand smoke. Both my parents smoked and I could not stand the smell then nor now. :&

 

Now on the other hand, banning smoking in all public places I'm totally against, Men and Women should have the right to go into a bar, sit down after work with co-workers or friends and enjoy a cold one and be able to light up. If the restaurant/bar owner wants to make that call thats fine, but not the alderman, city council or fed government place or call.

[Pain_Man]

Gotta run so I don't have time to properly edit and cut the length down. However, I think you should read this. They very way we live our lives is under attack by a tiny clique of determined activists who believe THEY know better than you do how YOU should live your life! And they are dead set on imposing their way of life on you. If that's not the very antithesis of democracy and freedom, what is?

 

______________________________________________________________

 

Speaking as one who's cause a big brouhahah (how d'ya spell that anyway?) lately, I think that's what's necessary is that everybody, me included, keeps their cool.

 

Given how many highly intelligent, well-informed people that are in this club, I'd hate to lose the ability to discuss whatever.

 

The funny thing was, I was going to put up my posts about these new smoking rules when I logged onto the Forum and saw that you'd beat me to the punch.

 

In reality, there's no evidence that second-hand smoke causes all but a small number of people problems. My wife happens to be one of them. It cause her asthma problems as well as Upper Respiratory infections if she's in it too much. We really can't go to casinos (since we live outside of Vegas; 'bout 25 miles from the Strip) except to see shows (where smoking is almost always banned. And then we can't spend too much time inside the casino area without it causing her problems.

 

The WHO (World Heath Organization) commissioned a study (about 10 yrs ago I think) in order to prove that second-hand smoke killed people.

 

The scientists' conclusions were the exact opposite of what the anti-smoking nazis wanted (just to clarify: I quit smoking myself 12 years ago--barring the occasionally "fine" cigar--and I gave myself asthma in the process. I myself support restricting: keep it out of restaurants--excepting "stand up" bars, i.e. one's that serve no good, or the casinos [it's the state's lifeblood, gambling; 65% of casino profits come from 15% of gamblers and they tend, overwhelmingly, to be smokers, esp the foreign tourists].

 

Getting it out of the grocery stores. Yes, you actually can smoke in a grocery store in Nevada. Many of them have slot machines in them where, invariably, you'll find little old ladies, glued to a slot and chain-smoking cigs at the same time. I want to be able to go the store without having to deal with cigarette smoking. And without my wife and daughter--and myself--risking an asthma attack.

 

In other words, I support common-sense smoking laws.] When I write "anti-smoking Nazis" I mean those people who want to basically crucify smokers on giant Marlboro cartons. People who make the wildest claims about second-hand smoke that are completely unsupported by science; the Clinton Admin's EPA actually phonnied up a study to "prove" second-hand smoke killed X amount of people. The study group came up, initially, with a very low number. Politically, that wasn't good enough, so the EPA's Administrator, a real tree-hugging hippy named Carol Browner pressued the study group to change the experiment's methodology to come up with a bigger number of people supposedly "killed" by second-hand smoke.

 

Anyway, getting back to the WHO study. It ran so counter to what the heads the WHO wanted, that they buried the study. It would have remained buried, except that Rush Limbaugh got a copy of it and publicized it on his show. It showed that the number of deaths that could be related to second-hand smoke was 2,000 or less. Not the tens of thousands the anti-smoking Nazis wanted.

 

Ultimately my point is two-fold.

 

1.) the anti-smoking groups have gotten way out of hand trying to regulate tobacco. Why not, as Rush says, just ban tobacco? If it's SOOO bad for people, if it's so deadly, why not ban it? Heroin, cocaine, PCP, in fact all the illegal drugs together kill 5000 people a year in the United States. Yet according to the dubious number we hear bruited about, smoking "kills" 500,000 people!

 

The truth about that has been fuzzed over. In fact, the majority, the overwhelming majority of people who die from "smoking-related illnesses" are already past their life expectancy anyway; in other words, these people were past their expiration dates anyway! So their deaths are NOT premature. They would have, statistically speaking, died from something else, non "smoking-related" anyway. People my age (I'm 36) have a life expectancy of 75 years, I think. My daughter's above 80.

 

The people dying from "smoking related-illness" are most from the World War II and Silent generation (that is, people who's life expectancy is in the late 60s). So, if someone born in 1930 dies from lung cancer is not a premature death!

 

2.) And, imo, more important

 

Is the mentality of the anti-smoking nazis. The Nanny-Staters. The people who literally think THEY know how to live YOUR life better than you do! Just like Lenin or Stalin, they believe (quite falsely of course) that since they are "smarter" and "more educated" than John Q Public, they have the "right" to regulate every aspect of our lives.

 

I smoked for about five years (17-24; I quit off and on during the period). I have asthma now as a result. THIS IS MY FAULT. I did something dumb, something deleterious to my health, so I have to pay the price, both in pain and suffering from asthma attacks as well as extremely high insurance policies.

 

I.e.: that bureaucrats in windowless rooms in DC (or some state capital) can make better decisions for you that you can.

 

Is that not the very essence of tyranny? Of government run wildly out of control?

 

In a certain country (I'm not going to say which because it's irrelevant which one it is), when you're prescribed a med by your doctor, it's NOT the doctor who decides what you're going to get. It's some bureaucrat in this country's capital. He's going to decide you should have drug ABC because it's cheaper for the national health plan instead of a newer drug, XYZ, which, while more expensive, is actually cheaper over the long-hall because it's more effective, therefore requiring less of it to be taken for a shorter period of time and has fewer side-effects than ABC.

 

So instead of your doctor, who's examined you, looked you in the eye and made a correct medical decision, you have a bureaucrat who's NOT an MD deciding matters of life and death (and who is totally immune from any responsibility, unlike your doctor, if the drug he orders you to take kills you or injures you).

 

and that's exactly what's happening in the United States and what's been happening in other "industrialized" nations for a long time.

 

In the US we have successfully fought a lot of this off. But the Nannystate Crowd are very determined. So they use bogus science, false media reports, and, most importantly, the courts to impose their agenda on our lives WITHOUT our having a say so (in supposedly democratic countries!).

 

This should scare the hell out of everyone, Liberal, Conservative, whatever your political beliefs are.

 

Who do we want making decisions about our lives? Even if we decide to do something stupid? And an essential component of freedom is the right to do something DUMB.

 

We've even got SERIOUS proposals that smokers be denied medical treatment before other people because they've allegedly "inflicted" their illness "on themselves." Despite the fact they were using a perfectly legal product.

 

But it won't stop there. Next will come people who are overweight. People whose cholesterol is too high. People who participate in dangerous sports. People who drink alcohol.

 

That's why we have to stop these people. Their ultimate goal is a totalitarian state that dictates what foods we can eat (look at NYC banning "trans-fat" foods in restraurants! How long before food makers are next? How long before bureaucrats are approving menus, striking off fettucini or steak and substituting spinach noodles and tofu?

 

I may sound hyperbolic, but do Google searches on any of these things I've mentioned and you'll find exactly what I'm talking about.

 

 

Hay PM I think the boss needs to open a debate forum just for us before we turn this place into a political asylum

 

To add to your post, It shouldn't need to come to lawmakers passing laws to keep people from smoking in the car where there are kids. People should have enough sense not to endanger their kids life by having the kids breathe their second hand smoke in the first place.

 

I know because I've been there as a kid myself, been there long before there were any warnings out about the dangers of smoking no less the dangers of second hand smoke. Both my parents smoked and I could not stand the smell then nor now. :&

 

Now on the other hand, banning smoking in all public places I'm totally against, Men and Women should have the right to go into a bar, sit down after work with co-workers or friends and enjoy a cold one and be able to light up. If the restaurant/bar owner wants to make that call thats fine, but not the alderman, city council or fed government place or call.

Edited January 11, 2007 by Pain_Man

[cathater]

You didn't mention the real reasons

" I don't smoke- so you can't

" I don't believe in god - so you caN'T PUT ANYTHING GODLY IN FRONT OF ME

"I'm a politicion or a really rich celebraty with armed body guards- but you don't need a gun

" if you work you have to pay taxes- so a recipient can live for free next to you( they have a right to everything you have)- but not in my upper class area

"I belong to PETA- you shouldn't eat meat or have pets or zoo's-" look at my new Gucci alligator hand bag

"

"

"

"

[spinningwheel]

I belong to PETA-

 

 

So do I Cath....that would be People Eating Tasty Animals would it not?????

[zacoz]

Always wondered what it stood for

[Kenadjian]

Well, to me, it's all lip service.

 

If people in Australia stoped smoking, drinking (alcohol), and driving a car, the Government would be bankrupt tomorrow.

 

It is mind boggling what they collect from these 3 things every year.

[Groundrush]

So do I Cath....that would be People Eating Tasty Animals would it not?????

 

=)) I agree.

Edited January 11, 2007 by Groundrush

[cathater]

I bought my daughter her own guns, now I stay in the warm house, she shoots em, guts em, cooks em, and does the dishes too.

 

 

I've been reading all your writing for 11 months and I've only posted once? Will try to talk more often.

[spinningwheel]

Will try to talk more often.

 

[dbminter]

Personally, I think it's a slippery slope. I, for one, can't stand it when anyone smokes. I don't want anyone smoking near me. But, guess what? There's no such thing as a non-smoking area. When someone smokes, everyone is, unless they do it outside. The irony is smokers KNOW it's annoying because they annoy themselves and each other. But, they're hooked and need their fix. So, what they basically say is to Hell with everyone else.

 

 

As far as second hand smoke goes, it's a gray area, like most things. There is evidence to support that it causes damage just as much as there's not enough evidence to support the opposite claims that it kills you. But, how CAN it be healthy? If we were meant to breathe in smoke, we'd have been created with methane filters. And, it's easy to create tobacco/nicotine dispersion systems. BUT, the bottom line is that would eat into the profits, when it's far easier to just wrap it up in paper derivatives and ignite it.

 

 

So, personally, I'm all for smoking bans. BUT, legally, how can I really support it? I believe people should have the right to smoke if they want to, but, what about those of us who don't like it? The smokers won't congregate into sealed rooms or outside, and businesses won't install sealed rooms and filter systems because it eats into the profits.

 

 

The best thing said here, though, was the comment that people SHOULD be smart enough to NOT smoke in front of the kids. As I said, it's nowhere near healthy, so, why do it in that instance?

[lfcrule1972]

I am with ken on this, personally, if people wish to smoke and maybe knock a few years off their lives - let em ! That way I will have to pay less in taxes to support old age pensions for these people !!

[Movie Junkie]

Personally, I think it's a slippery slope. I, for one, can't stand it when anyone smokes. I don't want anyone smoking near me. But, guess what? There's no such thing as a non-smoking area. When someone smokes, everyone is, unless they do it outside. The irony is smokers KNOW it's annoying because they annoy themselves and each other. But, they're hooked and need their fix. So, what they basically say is to Hell with everyone else.

About 2 1/2 years ago I was in a restaurant having dinner. We were in the non-smoking section. A man sitting at the table next to mine decided he was going to smoke and everyone else be damned. He even had the gall to use one of the plates for his ashtray. The smoke was really annoying so I asked him to stop and pointed out to him where he was sitting. He decides to take an attitude and proceeds to yell at me (although everyone in the restaurant could hear) saying things about how he has the right to smoke along with things like we should leave if it bothers us and no one is going to make him stop. The police were called and he decided to take the same route with them. WRONG MOVE IDIOT! They cuffed and arrested him right there. I must say I loved seeing it happen. While they were cuffing him I told him to make sure he didn't forget his cigarettes. One of the police officers who were there looked at me and gave a small laugh.

 

+ @ =

Edited January 12, 2007 by Movie Junkie

[kirk1701™]

Pain Man you should love this one.

 

http://www.scancat.com/cowboys

 

Cowboy George

 

Lets put him on a camel and see how long he lasts

[kirk1701™]

Personally, I think it's a slippery slope. I, for one, can't stand it when anyone smokes. I don't want anyone smoking near me. But, guess what? There's no such thing as a non-smoking area. When someone smokes, everyone is, unless they do it outside. The irony is smokers KNOW it's annoying because they annoy themselves and each other. But, they're hooked and need their fix. So, what they basically say is to Hell with everyone else.

About 2 1/2 years ago I was in a restaurant having dinner. We were in the non-smoking section. A man sitting at the table next to mine decided he was going to smoke and everyone else be damned. He even had the gall to use one of the plates for his ashtray. The smoke was really annoying so I asked him to stop and pointed out to him where he was sitting. He decides to take an attitude and proceeds to yell at me (although everyone in the restaurant could hear) saying things about how he has the right to smoke along with things like we should leave if it bothers us and no one is going to make him stop. The police were called and he decided to take the same route with them. WRONG MOVE IDIOT! They cuffed and arrested him right there. I must say I loved seeing it happen. While they were cuffing him I told him to make sure he didn't forget his cigarettes. One of the police officers who were there looked at me and gave a small laugh.

 

+ @ =

 

I would have paid good money to see that show

[Pain_Man]

Excise taxes are huge in the US too.

 

Nevada's one of four states that doesn't have an income tax (the others are TX, NH, FL, sorry, that's Tejas, New Hampshire and Florida--the latter is where all the golfers live). So it depends even more heavily than the others on the tobacco and alcohol taxes.

 

The main one, of course, is the casino taxes. 6 cents on every dollar one by a casino goes to Carson City (Nevada's capital).

 

Before 1913, there was no Federal income tax so excise taxes were a huge part of the Federal revenue. (We only have one because it was sold to people with the usual lie: "It's only for the rich. It'll never be more than 1%. And it'll only affect the dirty, evil, stinking, greedy rich." You know, the people who employee everyone.)

 

 

Well, to me, it's all lip service.

 

If people in Australia stoped smoking, drinking (alcohol), and driving a car, the Government would be bankrupt tomorrow.

 

It is mind boggling what they collect from these 3 things every year.

[Pain_Man]

Please do.

 

I'd buy my daughter a gun, but the state and my wife frowns on seven year old's packing heat.

 

 

I bought my daughter her own guns, now I stay in the warm house, she shoots em, guts em, cooks em, and does the dishes too.

 

 

I've been reading all your writing for 11 months and I've only posted once? Will try to talk more often.

[Pain_Man]

We'll make you into a conservative yet, crule.

 

 

I am with ken on this, personally, if people wish to smoke and maybe knock a few years off their lives - let em ! That way I will have to pay less in taxes to support old age pensions for these people !!

[Pain_Man]

There's really nothing in here that anyone with common sense can argue with.

 

Not a goddamn thing.

 

 

You didn't mention the real reasons

" I don't smoke- so you can't

" I don't believe in god - so you caN'T PUT ANYTHING GODLY IN FRONT OF ME

"I'm a politicion or a really rich celebraty with armed body guards- but you don't need a gun

" if you work you have to pay taxes- so a recipient can live for free next to you( they have a right to everything you have)- but not in my upper class area

"I belong to PETA- you shouldn't eat meat or have pets or zoo's-" look at my new Gucci alligator hand bag

"

"

"

"

[Pain_Man]

Believe it or not, MJ, we are absolutely on the same page on this one.

 

My wife and I were going to see the Eagles (I think it was) and we were in the casino elevator heading to the arena.

 

A dude lights up. My wife, as I've said, has severe asthma and is especially sensitive to cig smoke. I can see her hold her breath as soon as she sees him.

 

I asked the guy, politely, if he would put it out because of my wife's health. He gracious nodded and stubbed it out.

 

But I love your story.

 

Now that we have a smoking ban here in Nevada (not in the casinos, but the logic for that is obvious; they are the driver of the state's economy; as I said, 65% of casino profits come from 15% of gamblers and they're almost all smokers [and juicers for that matter]), I'm waiting for it to start being enforced. Some of the county sheriff's departments have ostentatiously announced that they won't be enforcing the new law.

 

So, there'll have to a lawsuit and a court order forcing them to do it (which doesn't mean anything to the Sheriffs since they get to use tax payer money to defend the suits; elected judges and sheriffs, the older I get, the more dubious the wisdom of that appears to me).

 

But refusing the lawful order of a cop is only going to lead to one thing: a trip to the station wearing the silver bracelets.

 

Wish I could have seen it.

About 2 1/2 years ago I was in a restaurant having dinner. We were in the non-smoking section. A man sitting at the table next to mine decided he was going to smoke and everyone else be damned. He even had the gall to use one of the plates for his ashtray. The smoke was really annoying so I asked him to stop and pointed out to him where he was sitting. He decides to take an attitude and proceeds to yell at me (although everyone in the restaurant could hear) saying things about how he has the right to smoke along with things like we should leave if it bothers us and no one is going to make him stop. The police were called and he decided to take the same route with them. WRONG MOVE IDIOT! They cuffed and arrested him right there. I must say I loved seeing it happen. While they were cuffing him I told him to make sure he didn't forget his cigarettes. One of the police officers who were there looked at me and gave a small laugh.

 

+ @ =

Edited January 16, 2007 by Pain_Man

[Pain_Man]

Thanks Kirk!

 

For a moment, with the Enterprise towing the Hillary banner, ya had me worried...

 

Ronald Reagan has been one of my heros since I was nine years old.

 

Remember the off the cuff remark he made (it drove the liberals nuts):

 

"I've just signed legislation outlawing the Soviet Union. We begin bombing in five minutes." =)) =))

 

Naturally, we were treated to sanctimonious self-righteous moaning from Dan Blather and the rest of the Driveby Media who must have had their sense of humor surgically removed.

 

 

 

 

Pain Man you should love this one.

 

http://www.scancat.com/cowboys

 

Cowboy George

 

Lets put him on a camel and see how long he lasts

[kirk1701™]

Thanks Kirk!

 

For a moment, with the Enterprise towing the Hillary banner, ya had me worried...

 

Ronald Reagan has been one of my heros since I was nine years old.

 

Remember the off the cuff remark he made (it drove the liberals nuts):

 

"I've just signed legislation outlawing the Soviet Union. We begin bombing in five minutes." =)) =))

 

Naturally, we were treated to sanctimonious self-righteous moaning from Dan Blather and the rest of the Driveby Media who must have had their sense of humor surgically removed.

 

 

 

 

Pain Man you should love this one.

 

http://www.scancat.com/cowboys

 

Cowboy George

 

Lets put him on a camel and see how long he lasts

 

 

Just remember, its not the party its the "person" that you vote for

 

unfortunately, I doubt Hillary will run

[Pain_Man]

True in the US, but not in the UK. The Party leadership can remove a refractory MP who refuses to vote the party line. In the US, the Senate or House seat belongs to the person who won the election. Of course, your party can always strip from you your seniority (in the case of the Democrats) or strip/change your committee/sub-committee assignments (in the case of both parties). Neither move is taken lightly by any member. It could mean going from relevance, power and campaign donations to taking long naps (or playing grabass with pages).

 

No Senator or Rep wants to go from Ways and Means (the House Committee which writes tax bills) or Defense Committees to the Fisheries Committee.

 

In the UK most of the power lies in the Cabinet. In the US, most of the power lies in the hands of Committee chair(persons).

 

 

Senator Rodham Rodham may not. If she runs, she's going to have to FINALLY answer a lot of questions she'd been dodging for more than a decade.

 

Pain Man you should love this one.

 

http://www.scancat.com/cowboys

 

Cowboy George

 

Lets put him on a camel and see how long he lasts

Just remember, its not the party its the "person" that you vote for

 

unfortunately, I doubt Hillary will run