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oversize ISO files wasting hard disk space


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#1 DWRoscoe

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 06:23 AM

Hello folks.


ImgBurn Read mode seems to be creating files on hard disk that are larger, sometimes much larger, than they need to be.

I use a Philips model DVDR3455H DVR to capture video, mostly short news reports, but sometimes whole shows. I burn the clips as titles, up to 49 at a time (the max for this DVR) to DVD+RW discs, and use ImgBurn to archive the discs as ISO image files to hard disk.

A while ago I became suspicious that the ISO files were larger than then they needed to be. As a test I used the DVR to burn a blank DVD+RW with a single half-hour show, which had been recorded at half quality, so it was equivalent to 15 minutes worth of a 2 hour DVD. The visible burn area of the DVD appeared right, less than 1/4 inch of disc radius, but when I read it with ImgBurn the resulting ISO file was 4,160,992KB. That's close to the entire disc.

The ISO files produced seem functional, but I'm wasting a lot of hard drive space storing the oversize files.

I don't know whether this is a DVR problem or an ImgBurn problem.

Has anybody else seen this problem?

Is there an ImgBurn setting that will force it to make the image size the actual size of only the burned part of the disc?

Or is this a bug that can be fixed?

I have appended below the log file and the disc information pane text from the test Read.


Thanks for your help.



----------- Begin log file. -------------
I 00:22:45 ImgBurn Version 2.5.3.0 started!
I 00:22:45 Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic Edition (6.0, Build 6002 : Service Pack 2)
I 00:22:45 Total Physical Memory: 2,029,008 KB - Available: 984,444 KB
I 00:22:45 Initialising SPTI...
I 00:22:45 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...
I 00:22:46 -> Drive 1 - Info: Optiarc DVD RW AD-7530B NX09 (D:) (ATA)
I 00:22:46 Found 1 DVD±RW/RAM!
I 00:24:37 Operation Started!
I 00:24:37 Source Device: [2:0:0] Optiarc DVD RW AD-7530B NX09 (D:) (ATA)
I 00:24:37 Source Media Type: DVD+RW (Book Type: DVD+RW) (Disc ID: INFODISC-A10-01) (Speeds: 2.4x, 4x)
I 00:24:37 Source Media Sectors: 2,080,496 (Track Path: PTP)
I 00:24:37 Source Media Size: 4,260,855,808 bytes
I 00:24:37 Source Media Volume Identifier: DVD_VR
I 00:24:37 Source Media Volume Set Identifier: 9323253993026232
I 00:24:37 Source Media Application Identifier: DVD RECORDER VER 0112052572
I 00:24:37 Source Media Implementation Identifier: DVD_RECORDER
I 00:24:38 Source Media File System(s): ISO9660, UDF (1.02)
I 00:24:38 Read Speed (Data/Audio): MAX / 8x
I 00:24:38 Destination File: F:\My1d5TB\1TB\Video\DVDsEventsFromTv\TvDancingWithSimpsonsMemorex60dX.ISO
I 00:24:38 Destination Free Space: 11,996,639,232 Bytes (11,715,468 KB) (11,440 MB) (11 GB)
I 00:24:38 Destination File System: NTFS
I 00:24:38 File Splitting: Auto
I 00:24:47 Reading Session 1 of 1... (1 Track, LBA: 0 - 2295103)
I 00:24:47 Reading Track 1 of 1... (MODE1/2048, LBA: 0 - 2295103)
I 00:24:47 Reading File System Area of Track 1... (LBA: 0 - 2080495)
I 00:35:14 Exporting Graph Data...
I 00:35:14 Graph Data File: C:\Users\PCUser\AppData\Roaming\ImgBurn\Graph Data Files\Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7530B_NX09_THURSDAY-DECEMBER-09-2010_12-24_AM_INFODISC-A10-01.ibg
I 00:35:14 Export Successfully Completed!
I 00:35:15 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:10:37
I 00:35:15 Average Read Rate: 6,532 KB/s (4.7x) - Maximum Read Rate: 9,601 KB/s (6.9x)
I 01:08:22 Operation Started!
I 01:08:22 Source Device: [2:0:0] Optiarc DVD RW AD-7530B NX09 (D:) (ATA)
I 01:08:22 Source Media Type: DVD+RW (Book Type: DVD+RW) (Disc ID: INFODISC-A10-01) (Speeds: 2.4x, 4x)
I 01:08:22 Source Media Sectors: 2,080,496 (Track Path: PTP)
I 01:08:22 Source Media Size: 4,260,855,808 bytes
I 01:08:22 Source Media Volume Identifier: DVD_VR
I 01:08:22 Source Media Volume Set Identifier: 9323253993026232
I 01:08:22 Source Media Application Identifier: DVD RECORDER VER 0112052572
I 01:08:22 Source Media Implementation Identifier: DVD_RECORDER
I 01:08:22 Source Media File System(s): ISO9660, UDF (1.02)
I 01:08:22 Read Speed (Data/Audio): MAX / 8x
I 01:08:22 Destination File: F:\My1d5TB\1TB\Video\DVDsEventsFromTv\TvDancingWithSimpsonsMemorex60dX.ISO
I 01:08:22 Destination Free Space: 11,996,647,424 Bytes (11,715,476 KB) (11,440 MB) (11 GB)
I 01:08:22 Destination File System: NTFS
I 01:08:22 File Splitting: Auto
I 01:08:31 Reading Session 1 of 1... (1 Track, LBA: 0 - 2295103)
I 01:08:32 Reading Track 1 of 1... (MODE1/2048, LBA: 0 - 2295103)
I 01:08:32 Reading File System Area of Track 1... (LBA: 0 - 2080495)
I 01:19:03 Exporting Graph Data...
I 01:19:04 Graph Data File: C:\Users\PCUser\AppData\Roaming\ImgBurn\Graph Data Files\Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7530B_NX09_THURSDAY-DECEMBER-09-2010_1-08_AM_INFODISC-A10-01.ibg
I 01:19:04 Export Successfully Completed!
I 01:19:04 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:10:41
I 01:19:04 Average Read Rate: 6,491 KB/s (4.7x) - Maximum Read Rate: 9,403 KB/s (6.8x)
I 01:19:52 Operation Started!
I 01:19:52 Source Device: [2:0:0] Optiarc DVD RW AD-7530B NX09 (D:) (ATA)
I 01:19:52 Source Media Type: DVD+RW (Book Type: DVD+RW) (Disc ID: INFODISC-A10-01) (Speeds: 2.4x, 4x)
I 01:19:52 Source Media Sectors: 2,080,496 (Track Path: PTP)
I 01:19:52 Source Media Size: 4,260,855,808 bytes
I 01:19:52 Source Media Volume Identifier: DVD_VR
I 01:19:52 Source Media Volume Set Identifier: 9323253993026232
I 01:19:52 Source Media Application Identifier: DVD RECORDER VER 0112052572
I 01:19:52 Source Media Implementation Identifier: DVD_RECORDER
I 01:19:52 Source Media File System(s): ISO9660, UDF (1.02)
I 01:19:52 Read Speed (Data/Audio): MAX / 8x
I 01:19:52 Destination File: F:\My1d5TB\1TB\Video\DVDsEventsFromTv\TvDancingWithSimpsonsMemorex60dX.ISO
I 01:19:52 Destination Free Space: 7,735,783,424 Bytes (7,554,476 KB) (7,377 MB) (7 GB)
I 01:19:52 Destination File System: NTFS
I 01:19:52 File Splitting: Auto
I 01:20:15 Reading Session 1 of 1... (1 Track, LBA: 0 - 2295103)
I 01:20:15 Reading Track 1 of 1... (MODE1/2048, LBA: 0 - 2295103)
I 01:20:15 Reading File System Area of Track 1... (LBA: 0 - 2080495)
I 01:30:57 Exporting Graph Data...
I 01:30:57 Graph Data File: C:\Users\PCUser\AppData\Roaming\ImgBurn\Graph Data Files\Optiarc_DVD_RW_AD-7530B_NX09_THURSDAY-DECEMBER-09-2010_1-19_AM_INFODISC-A10-01.ibg
I 01:30:57 Export Successfully Completed!
I 01:30:58 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:11:05
I 01:30:58 Average Read Rate: 6,257 KB/s (4.5x) - Maximum Read Rate: 11,304 KB/s (8.2x)
----------- End log file. -------------




----------- Begin disc info. -------------
Optiarc DVD RW AD-7530B NX09 (ATA)
Current Profile: DVD+RW

Disc Information:
Status: Complete
State of Last Session: Complete
Erasable: Yes
Formatted: No (Started)
Sessions: 1
Sectors: 2,295,104
Size: 4,700,372,992 bytes
Time: 510:03:29 (MM:SS:FF)

File System Information:
Sectors: 2,080,496
Size: 4,260,855,808 bytes
Time: 462:21:71 (MM:SS:FF)

TOC Information:
Session 1... (LBA: 0)
-> Track 01 (Mode 1, LBA: 0 - 2295103)
-> LeadOut (LBA: 2295104)

Track Information:
Session 1...
-> Track 01 (LTSA: 0, LTS: 2295104, LRA: 0)

Physical Format Information (ADIP):
Disc ID: INFODISC-A10-01
Book Type: DVD+RW
Part Version: 2
Disc Size: 120mm
Maximum Read Rate: Not Specified
Number of Layers: 1
Track Path: Parallel Track Path (PTP)
Linear Density: 0.267 um/bit
Track Density: 0.74 um/track
First Physical Sector of Data Area: 196,608
Last Physical Sector of Data Area: 2,491,711
Last Physical Sector in Layer 0: 0

Physical Format Information (Last Recorded):
Disc ID: INFODISC-A10-01
Book Type: DVD+RW
Part Version: 2
Disc Size: 120mm
Maximum Read Rate: Not Specified
Number of Layers: 1
Track Path: Parallel Track Path (PTP)
Linear Density: 0.267 um/bit
Track Density: 0.74 um/track
First Physical Sector of Data Area: 196,608
Last Physical Sector of Data Area: 494,399
Last Physical Sector in Layer 0: 0
----------- End disc info. -------------


----- End Of Post -----

#2 LIGHTNING UK!

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 09:40 AM

It's already doing everything it can.

Disc Information:
Status: Complete
State of Last Session: Complete
Erasable: Yes
Formatted: No (Started)
Sessions: 1
Sectors: 2,295,104
Size: 4,700,372,992 bytes
Time: 510:03:29 (MM:SS:FF)


File System Information:
Sectors: 2,080,496
Size: 4,260,855,808 bytes
Time: 462:21:71 (MM:SS:FF)


... and this is what the program tries to read:

I 00:24:37 Source Media Sectors: 2,080,496 (Track Path: PTP)


So as you can see, it's NOT reading the full size of the disc, it's reading the amount of data the file system says is present.

You're just going to have to live with it.

You could of course use Build mode, point it at D:\ and create a new image that way. That one would probably be a lot smaller but I don't know how well it would work with DVR discs, they can be weird sometimes.
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#3 DWRoscoe

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 06:15 AM

It's already doing everything it can.

...

So as you can see, it's NOT reading the full size of the disc, it's reading the amount of data the file system says is present.


I was afraid of that.


You're just going to have to live with it.

You could of course use Build mode, point it at D:\ and create a new image that way. That one would probably be a lot smaller but I don't know how well it would work with DVR discs, they can be weird sometimes.


It was such weirdness that led me to stop working with VIDEO_TS files, and store ISO images instead. The DVRs and plain DVD recorders that I've used pack titles into as few VOB files as possible. But sometimes, such as when the disc has multiple titles recorded different compressions/qualities, it creates multiple aliases (VIDEO_TS directory entries) to the same VOB files. The players don't have any problem with that weirdness, but it makes a DVD seem to Windows to contain much more data than it really does, sometimes more than the DVD's maximum capacity, by a factor of 2 or more. It also made working from the VIDEO_TS files impossible for me.

Using ImgBurn to store to ISO image files on hard disk solved those problems. I can burn the images. I can mount them and play them like regular DVDs. I can extract clips from them using MPEG Streamclip. I just wish I could do these things without wasting all that space at the end of the files.

Are there any good programs with which I could edit the ISO files to remove that unused space?

#4 LIGHTNING UK!

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 09:55 AM

Open one of the problem ISO files in IsoBuster so I can see the structure (of the VIDEO_TS folder) and post a screenshot please.

If the files are exact duplicates, ImgBurn has an option to detect them and only store the data once when working in Build mode.
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#5 DWRoscoe

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 06:13 AM

Open one of the problem ISO files in IsoBuster so I can see the structure (of the VIDEO_TS folder) and post a screenshot please.

If the files are exact duplicates, ImgBurn has an option to detect them and only store the data once when working in Build mode.


That would be great. I need to look around for one of those problem images. I haven't any noticed any recently, but I think I saved a few somewhere. I'll try to get back to you with a screen shot of one tomorrow night. Thanks.

#6 DWRoscoe

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 04:41 AM


Open one of the problem ISO files in IsoBuster so I can see the structure (of the VIDEO_TS folder) and post a screenshot please.

If the files are exact duplicates, ImgBurn has an option to detect them and only store the data once when working in Build mode.


That would be great. I need to look around for one of those problem images. I haven't any noticed any recently, but I think I saved a few somewhere. I'll try to get back to you with a screen shot of one tomorrow night. Thanks.


I created and attached an IsoBuster screen shot of a DVD that has 11 VOB files. One is not duplicated, and five seem to be duplicated once each.

Attached Images

  • DupVOBs.jpg


#7 LIGHTNING UK!

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 11:53 AM

So what happens if you enable the 'optimise duplicate files' option in the settings and then 'Build' a new image using 'D:\' as the source?

If I were you I'd just stick to using 'Read' mode. 2TB HDD's are pretty cheap these days (£70 for a WD 2TB GP - WD20EARS).

This is all down to you now, there's nothing I can do about anything.
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#8 DWRoscoe

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 06:54 AM

So what happens if you enable the 'optimise duplicate files' option in the settings and then 'Build' a new image using 'D:\' as the source?


I hadn't tried that because your previous message seemed to indicate that you wanted to see the IsoBuster screen shot first.

I've tried it since then, but it didn't work. The output image was twice the size of the input disc.

It did optimize a couple of files, but those were IFO (info) and BUP (backup info) files. But these are very small files that are not supposed to be optimized if the image is to be burned to disc. They contain stuff like menu layouts and title file positions. They are supposed to be separate copies that are (preferably) far apart on the disc so that a scratch is unlikely to make both copies unreadable, which would make the entire disc unusable.

ImgBurn did not optimize the big duplicate VOB files, which were actually already optimized on the source disk, judging from the identical starting LBAs in the IsoBuster screen shot. So I guess that means ImgBurn unoptimized them.


If I were you I'd just stick to using 'Read' mode. 2TB HDD's are pretty cheap these days (£70 for a WD 2TB GP - WD20EARS).


I have to continue using Read mode, but I think I'll continue looking for a solution also. Wasting 50 to 80% really bugs me, even when disk space is cheap.


This is all down to you now, there's nothing I can do about anything.


Okay, well thanks for the help you were able to give.

If I can't find a utility that can truncate the unused space, maybe I'll try writing a program to do it myself. It might be as simple as copying the used part of the file to a new one, and changing a couple of numbers that represent the file length and unused space... Who am I kidding? Programming is never that easy.


If anybody else knows of an editor or utility that does what I need, please let me know. Thanks.


For what it's worth I've appended the log file.

----------- Begin Log ------------
I 00:09:34 ImgBurn Version 2.5.3.0 started!
I 00:09:34 Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic Edition (6.0, Build 6002 : Service Pack 2)
I 00:09:34 Total Physical Memory: 2,029,008 KB - Available: 1,061,968 KB
I 00:09:35 Initialising SPTI...
I 00:09:35 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...
I 00:09:35 -> Drive 1 - Info: Optiarc DVD RW AD-7530B NX09 (D:) (ATA)
I 00:09:35 Found 1 DVD±RW/RAM!
I 00:12:24 Operation Started!
I 00:12:24 Building Image Tree...
I 00:12:37 Checking Directory Depth...
I 00:12:37 Calculating Totals...
I 00:12:37 Preparing Image...
W 00:12:37 Duplicate File: \VIDEO_RM\VIDEO_RM.IFO -> \VIDEO_RM\VIDEO_RM.BUP
W 00:12:46 User accepted that image may be too big to fit on the target DVD media!
W 00:13:01 Unable to find any cells that could be used for the layer break!
I 00:13:02 Checking Path Length...
I 00:13:02 Contents: 20 Files, 3 Folders
I 00:13:02 Content Type: DVD Video
I 00:13:02 Data Type: MODE1/2048
I 00:13:02 File System(s): ISO9660, UDF (1.02)
I 00:13:02 Volume Label: DVD Video Recording
I 00:13:02 IFO/BUP 32K Padding: Enabled
I 00:13:02 Region Code: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
I 00:13:02 TV System: NTSC
I 00:13:02 Size: 9,281,439,744 bytes
I 00:13:02 Sectors: 4,531,953
I 00:13:02 Optimised Size: 9,281,406,976 bytes
I 00:13:02 Optimised Sectors: 4,531,937
I 00:13:02 Image Size: 9,282,060,288 bytes
I 00:13:02 Image Sectors: 4,532,256
I 00:13:02 Saved 32,768 bytes in 1 duplicate file.
I 00:13:28 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:01:03
I 00:13:28 Operation Started!
I 00:13:28 Image Contents: 20 Files, 3 Folders
I 00:13:28 Image Sectors: 4,532,256 (MODE1/2048)
I 00:13:28 Image Size: 9,282,060,288 bytes
I 00:13:28 Image Layer Break Position: 2,266,128
I 00:13:28 Image Single Layer Profile: DVD-R/RW (Media Capacity: 2,297,888)
I 00:13:28 Image Double Layer Profile: DVD+R DL (Min L0: 0, Max L0: 2,086,912, Media Capacity: 4,173,824)
I 00:13:28 Image Volume Identifier: DVD Video Recording
I 00:13:28 Image Volume Set Identifier: 3D90018C00452806
I 00:13:28 Image Application Identifier: IMGBURN V2.5.3.0 - THE ULTIMATE IMAGE BURNER!
I 00:13:28 Image Implementation Identifier: ImgBurn
I 00:13:28 Image File System(s): ISO9660, UDF (1.02)
I 00:13:28 Destination File: F:\My1d5TB\1TB\Video\DVDsEventsFromTv\TvDiscWithDuplicateVOBs.ISO
I 00:13:28 Destination Free Space: 11,411,537,920 Bytes (11,144,080 KB) (10,882 MB) (10 GB)
I 00:13:28 Destination File System: NTFS
I 00:13:28 File Splitting: Auto
I 00:13:56 Writing Image...
I 00:40:32 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:27:04
I 00:40:33 Average Write Rate: 5,581 KB/s (4.0x) - Maximum Write Rate: 14,314 KB/s (10.3x)
----------- End Log ------------

#9 ianymaty

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 09:05 AM

Do you have the latest firmware installed on the Philips recorder? http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbint/cpindex.pl?ctn=DVDR3455H/37&scy=US&slg=en

Try extract the titles from that disc with DVDShrink in Re-author mode or try DVDFab also to extract the titles you want and reauthor that disc.

In past I used Ulead DVD Movie Factory to extract such titles from DVD-VR's from camcorders with success.

You should not live in the past anymore!

Current supported version: ImgBurn 2.5.8.0 Get it while it's current!

Also, visit the site of: FIRMWARE HQ for drive update.


#10 LIGHTNING UK!

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 09:41 AM

Update ImgBurn.

2.5.3.0 has a big issue when adding multiple files and I wouldn't want you to get caught out by it.

Thinking about it, the 'Optimise Duplicate Files' feature doesn't act on anything in the VIDEO_TS folder (the program knows better than to do that) so it was silly of me to suggest trying it.

It doesn't ignore VIDEO_RM folders though (as can be seen by the 'dupe file' entry in your log), they're not classed as a 'special' folder in the program.
Please don't PM me with questions that should be posted in the forum. I won't reply - Especially if you have post count of 0!!!

Replies to posts belong in the forum where everyone can read them. Please don't PM them.

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#11 DWRoscoe

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 03:10 AM

Do you have the latest firmware installed on the Philips recorder? http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbint/cpindex.pl?ctn=DVDR3455H/37&scy=US&slg=en


No, but I have downloaded it. I haven't gotten around to installing it, because I only want to do it when I have moved all my wanted clips off, and to minimize waste I can only do that when I have a full burn batch of clips. I will try that eventually.


Try extract the titles from that disc with DVDShrink in Re-author mode or try DVDFab also to extract the titles you want and reauthor that disc.


I've already tried those programs, without success.


In past I used Ulead DVD Movie Factory to extract such titles from DVD-VR's from camcorders with success.


I'll check it out.


Thanks.

#12 DWRoscoe

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 03:15 AM

Update ImgBurn.

2.5.3.0 has a big issue when adding multiple files and I wouldn't want you to get caught out by it.


I'll do that if I need to do another build, but I think I'll be using only Read mode for a while.


Thinking about it, the 'Optimise Duplicate Files' feature doesn't act on anything in the VIDEO_TS folder (the program knows better than to do that) so it was silly of me to suggest trying it.


That's okay, no harm done, except a little wasted time. I'll probably waste a lot more time before I solve this problem.


Thanks again.




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