Digital audio in the EARLY 80s???

[Pain_Man]

(PM, hmm, just noticed how easily that could be Pre-Menstrual. Odd no one's ever made a joke along those lines. Given the deliciously sardonic wit so many of us are blessed with, I'm surprised (dot)(dot)(dot).)

 

Pain_Man requesth a little history lesson. He doth feel a bit of a

 

Anyway, I found this article about Apple's proprietary lossless encoder found in iTunes (although it a codec has apparently been written for it with a third-party player, something I haven't heard of, called dbpoweAMP).

 

This statement from the article floored me:

 

Apple Lossless Encoding can be used for audio from other sources, too. I transferred some of my early live digital recordings, made in the early 1980s, to my Macintosh using lossless encoding in iTunes. Unlike most CDs, my live digital recordings are unrelenting in their variations in loudness and quietness (I used no limiters), and the lossless encoding handled the wide dynamic range very well. *

 

Let me get this straight: digital recording was possible in the early 1980s? (I'm assuming this means before 1985.)

 

And what I mean here is not that I'm surprised it existed period, but that it was available to the "man in the street." Obviously, CDs came out in the 1980s, so digital recording tech had to exist before then. And I got my first CD player in 1986. CDRs didn't appear until, what, 12 years after?

 

But had no idea that digital records existed outside multi-million dollar recording studios! If memory serves, DAT didn't appear till the late 80s (i.e. after 1986).

 

So I'm wondering, how this guy could have made live digital recordings during the early years of the Reagan Administration?!

 

Many of you have been involved with digital audiophilia waaaay longer than I have so I'm hoping someone can give me a little history lesson.

 

 

*The entire article can be found here http://aroundcny.com/technofile/texts/mac060204.html

Edited November 24, 2006 by Pain_Man

[Grain]

He doesn't say whether he recorded them himself or not, but anyway Dire Straits Brothers in Arms(1985) was I believe the first cd released that was DDD ie digital recorded, mastered, and transfered to disc (I stand to be corrected on what each D stands for, but that's close). So the technology was in use then, what exactly they used though I can't say.

[Pain_Man]

@Grain

 

My wife bought a road atlas for her trip to Utah (no Mormon jokes pls. Ok, a few, tho' we aren't Mormon).

 

We looked up your home town. Quite ironic considering your love a certain late 60s TV show.

 

I read it differently than you did, or misunderstood it. I thought he was saying he personally made digital recordings.

 

Also, I thought that Rush's Power Windows--also 1985--was the first DDD--all digital--album ever released?

 

Which I hope is true. Another milestone for my favorite and Canada's most successful band.

 

(You know, if it weren't for the taxes, I'd probably move to the GWN in a heartbeat. Expound later on this in an email.)

 

He doesn't say whether he recorded them himself or not, but anyway Dire Straits Brothers in Arms(1985) was I believe the first cd released that was DDD ie digital recorded, mastered, and transfered to disc (I stand to be corrected on what each D stands for, but that's close). So the technology was in use then, what exactly they used though I can't say.

[Grain]

@Grain

Also, I thought that Rush's Power Windows--also 1985--was the first DDD--all digital--album ever released?

 

Either way, we've got the year down pat

[dbminter]

Yeah, I'd have to say the recordings he made may be digital, but, the SOURCE was still analog. An old trick from the early days of, pretty much, all digital formats that have ever been. It's still digital, even if the source is just a real time, etc. conversion. Like how "letterboxing" may really just be framed borders placed over the video, etc.

[Pain_Man]

C'est vrai!

 

 

@Grain

Also, I thought that Rush's Power Windows--also 1985--was the first DDD--all digital--album ever released?

 

Either way, we've got the year down pat

[Pain_Man]

You mean, essentially, that he was converting analog recordings to digital, rather like converting film/video tape to HD digital (which is what the lion's share of "HD" content really is, thus I laugh at people who go satellite thinking, "Hey, Ma, we're gone be gettin' ever thang in that Hi Defernishun!!" Ahh, bull pucky!

 

Regardless of that, unless Grain's right & I misunderstood the dude, I didn't think there were digital recording devices outside of the most advanced recording studios in the "early 80s."

 

The first professional digital reel-to-reel tape machine I saw in 1991 cost $2500 and it was not portable in the sense that you couldn't throw it over your shoulder and walk about with a microphone.

 

Kind of hard to drag an entire studio to a Grateful Dead concert. And Jerry & the Boys, between kisses from Harry the Horse, might've noticed an entire recording truck parked outside the concert venue.

 

in re: Power Windows: where it was the first DDD album, the first copy I bought was on vinyl. Which is, of course, ironic. Because the original recording, digital, mix, digital, final product, digital, then they had to convert it to analog to make the LP. Kind of like taking, say, Revenge of the Sith, which was shot entirely on digital HiDef cameras, and putting it on VHS. Or, converting plastic to wood, steel to copper. Jesus I could go on forever (and frequently do, I know ).

 

 

Yeah, I'd have to say the recordings he made may be digital, but, the SOURCE was still analog. An old trick from the early days of, pretty much, all digital formats that have ever been. It's still digital, even if the source is just a real time, etc. conversion. Like how "letterboxing" may really just be framed borders placed over the video, etc.

[polopony]

"Kind of hard to drag an entire studio to a Grateful Dead concert. And Jerry & the Boys, between kisses from Harry the Horse, might've noticed an entire recording truck parked outside the concert venue."

 

the Dead never had a problem with people bringing recorders to their shows and recording the music there is a huge Library of Dead shows out there, people exchange them all the time .I dont know of any other band that has that attitude about recording the shows,and they put on great shows none of the 1 1/2 hours 2 encores and goodnight R.I.P. Jerry.

[Pain_Man]

I know. They used to charge extra to being a recorder into the show--according to a Dead Head (or is it Deadhead?) friend of mine. He had quite a few concerts taped. And the sound quality was surprisingly good. (Of course, this was before nearly all the tools that studios had in the 80s are available in, relatively, cheap software/hardware packages.)

 

Whether this would have applied to digital recorders that are cheap nowadays, I don't know.

 

Limbaugh made an interesting observation about Garcia: "He's the only fat junkie I've ever seen." And, getting to think about it, he's right. I've never seen an overweight junkie. And it's not like there haven't been more than few rich junkies. (Look at John & Mackenzie Phillips, for you young folks, , that'd be the founder of the Mamas & the Papas and father of Mackenzie who played the older sister to Valerie Bertinelli, aka ex-Mrs. Eddie Van Halen).

 

The Dead were never my thing, outside a few songs (e.g. "Truckin'", "Sugar Magnolia," "St. Stephen," "Casey Jones").

 

Still, it is sad that Jerry couldn't clean up his act and paid for it with his life. He only got one part of the old scenario right. The other two parts? Live fast, die young and leave a beautiful corpse. He lived fast alright. Right into the ground.

 

"Kind of hard to drag an entire studio to a Grateful Dead concert. And Jerry & the Boys, between kisses from Harry the Horse, might've noticed an entire recording truck parked outside the concert venue."

 

the Dead never had a problem with people bringing recorders to their shows and recording the music there is a huge Library of Dead shows out there, people exchange them all the time .I dont know of any other band that has that attitude about recording the shows,and they put on great shows none of the 1 1/2 hours 2 encores and goodnight R.I.P. Jerry.

[dbminter]

I know. They used to charge extra to being a recorder into the show--according to a Dead Head (or is it Deadhead?) friend of mine.

 

 

Remember the words of MST3K: keep circulating the tapes.

 

 

When I saw the Village People perform in 2001, I... accidentally... had a microcassette recorder in my shirt pocket... that had been in my briefcase... and somehow made it's way to my pocket... and got turned on just before start... From there, it was just a simple matter of connecting a 1/8's male double ended cable into the earphone out for the recorder and then to the sound card mic in and make a CD. So, again, that leads me to think this initial question was just one of someone making a digital copy from an analog source.

 

 

Now, the funny thing is... they never questioned why someone was bringing in a briefcase into a Village People concert?

[Grain]

The Compact Disc reached the market in late 1982 in Asia and early the following year in other markets. (Billy Joel's 52nd Street was the first CD released commercially ... in Japan in October, 1982.) [2] This event is often seen as the "Big Bang" of the digital audio revolution. The new audio disc was enthusiastically received, especially in the early-adopting classical music and audiophile communities and its handling quality received particular praise. The far larger popular and rock music industries were slower to adopt the new format, especially in the huge consumer markets in Europe and the United States. This "highbrow niche" status of the CD format changed dramatically in May, 1985, when UK rock band Dire Straits, then under contract by Philips' Polygram, released the album Brothers in Arms. One of the first all-digital rock recordings and the first by a major act, Brothers in Arms played to the strengths of the CD by offering more and longer tracks, running ten minutes longer than the album's concurrent LP and cassette releases. It spurred the sale of compact disc players like no other recording before it, helped to drive down the price of players, induced other acts and record labels to release more music on CD and firmly established the format in the mind of the average consumer.

Some interesting info at the below link

source http://mediacoder.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/CD

[Pain_Man]

It spurred the sale of compact disc players like no other recording before it, helped to drive down the price of players, induced other acts and record labels to release more music on CD and firmly established the format in the mind of the average consumer.

 

Thanks for digging that l'il nugget up, Grain.

 

I'm not quite sure all that much credit should be given to Dire Straits' Brothers in Arms. Which was, IMHO, not as interesting as their earlier work (it was what the A&R chumps call "accessible" and "radio-friendly").

 

Rush was at the peak of their commercial, not all would agree artistic, curve when they released Power Windows that same year. Those were the years when Rush albums were essentially guaranteed Top Ten intros and multi-platium sales. In another irony, despite continuing to sell out arenas consistently, the next studio album, Hold Your Fire broke the string of platinum records which had stretched back to 1976's 2112, just missing platinum status.

 

With the release of their last studio album Vapor Trails, Rush returned to the top of the charts and multi-platimum sales. And the concert video of their show in Brazil, Rush in Rio went quintuple platinum.

 

For those interested, I got an email from the "official" Rush site: the boyz are back in the studio and a new CD is expected Spring 2007.

 

Not only that but when MTV debuted, Rush dominated its airtime, with videos culled from the concert film Exit, Stage Left (ironically enough, this recording is generally considered to be their worst sounding live effort ever; tho' the engineer/producers did an excellent job transfering it to video for the Rush X3 package of concert videos).

 

They were also one of the biggest, most succesful arena rock acts in the US, UK, Germany and, it goes without saying, their "Home and Native Land."

 

Power Windows certainly demonstrated to audiophiles that first rate recording expertise could shine in the new medium. And Rush and U2 are among the very, very small group of bands who, IMHO, have any real claim to the studio genius that was Jimmy Page's during Zep's glory years (i.e. 1970-76, or from Zep IV to Physical Graffiti).

 

Of course, opinions vary.

[Pain_Man]

When I saw the Village People perform in 2001, I... accidentally... had a microcassette recorder in my shirt pocket... that had been in my briefcase... and somehow made it's way to my pocket...

 

I too used to "accidentally" find things in my pocket on my way into concerts. Only what I found was a good deal more, ah, combustible and contibutory to the audio-visual experience than a pocket tape recoder.

 

funnily enough, Security was more interested in finding booze than anything else. One guy had to ditch a plsatic container that looked very much like a binocular's case. One of the "caps" for the "eye piece" was in fact the lid. The whole thing was filled with liquor.

[kevdriver]

 

When I saw the Village People perform in 2001, I... accidentally... had a microcassette recorder in my shirt pocket... that had been in my briefcase... and somehow made it's way to my pocket...

 

I too used to "accidentally" find things in my pocket on my way into concerts. Only what I found was a good deal more, ah, combustible and contibutory to the audio-visual experience than a pocket tape recoder.

funnily enough, Security was more interested in finding booze than anything else. One guy had to ditch a plsatic container that looked very much like a binocular's case. One of the "caps" for the "eye piece" was in fact the lid. The whole thing was filled with liquor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now just what might that have been PM.....................

[Pain_Man]

Now just what might that have been PM.....................

 

 

 

I don't know, man. The late Sixties are really fuzzy for me, man. Especially considering I wasn't born till 1970. Just a big blur........

 

 

 

-->"Did you ever get into your hand, man?"<--

 

"Can you name the sitcom character that spoke those words and the show they were uttered on. Remember this question is worth exactly 23 English pence.....so think carefully."

Edited November 26, 2006 by Pain_Man

[dbminter]

Security was more interested in finding booze than anything else. One guy had to ditch a plsatic container that looked very much like a binocular's case. One of the "caps" for the "eye piece" was in fact the lid. The whole thing was filled with liquor.

 

 

Spencer's Gifts catalog used to offer that for a long time.

[Pain_Man]

Spencer's Gifts catalog used to offer that for a long time.

 

 

I always wondered what the guy dropped on that when he, ah, had to drop it into the trash. Why not just take it back to his car? Because they would have banned him from the show. So tons of stuff ended up in the trash.