How can I check the quality of a mastered BD-R disc...by what metric/s is this goal achieved, more than one?

[AlbertEinstein]

I've recently mastered a freshly burned BD-R 25GB disc. Sometimes it seems to behave properly for the Windows OS and sometimes not. This randomness is the reliability of an optical media disc, literally, from day to day is what puzzles me most about optical media. Is it that flakey? What metrics, if any, can be used to check the quality of a burned disc, if that's even possible.

Thanks for reading!

[dbminter]

Well, that question doesn't really have a straight forward answer.  It depends on what kind of BD-R you burned.  If it's a data BD-R, I would guess the best metrics would be to try and perform a Read operation on it.  If the Read operation completes, then the disc is probably okay.  You could also check the Graphs ImgBurn produced for the PIE and PIO results, but I know next to nothing about those as I don't bother with that data.  If it's a BD Video, a Read test is another good metric, but you won't really know without performing a scan test in a BD player.  You will need to perform a forward scan in the player at a speed that is not too slow but also not too fast so that any bad data would be skipped over.  And that isn't a standardized value as BD players each have different levels of forward scan speeds.

 

Define "flakey" randomness of reliability.  Are you getting read errors in Windows?  Slow downs in read and then faster reads?

[AlbertEinstein]

Okay, firstly, I burned the BD-R as a data disc. Yes, it contains some video clips in mostly .mp4 video container formats. But I wouldn't want to view all the videos to verify the quality of the burn. It contains all manner of different files besides video including images, text files, etc. So, just think of it as a data disc.

So, this flakiness I speak of means exactly that. Sometimes, I'll try to read the BD-R disc and Windows spins....*quitely* a few times to get synchronized to whatever the hell it's syncing up with and then it shows me the root folder on my optical media in the 'File Explorer" or a good old fashioned PowerShell prompt (I use both).

As I stated, sometimes this process is very quick, sometimes I hear a lot of bumping'n'grinding before I get the display of a root folder. And sometimes I have to end up killing the process because it's just not happening. Much like some blind dates in real life might go down...it's *just not happening*. So you kill the process.

And yes, this is on the same disc at different times.

Edited January 27 by AlbertEinstein

[dbminter]

I have tended to notice varying degrees of response times for BD-R's.  For instance, writing the LeadIn for a BD-R in ImgBurn can take anywhere from 30 seconds to 3 minutes and 30 seconds.  There appears to be no rhyme or reason.  Next time you think you need to kill the process, wait 5 minutes first just to be sure.  5 minutes is more than enough time.

[AlbertEinstein]

8 minutes ago, dbminter said:

I have tended to notice varying degrees of response times for BD-R's.  For instance, writing the LeadIn for a BD-R in ImgBurn can take anywhere from 30 seconds to 3 minutes and 30 seconds.  There appears to be no rhyme or reason.  Next time you think you need to kill the process, wait 5 minutes first just to be sure.  5 minutes is more than enough time.

Oh, I have believe me. I'm a patient person who likes to learn and understand things. But seriously, waiting 5 minutes for the bump'n'grind to stop just to get a damn root folder up on the screen tells me something isn't right. That's what I hate about optical media. When people laugh at me for still using it today I always have the reliability argument to fall back on. And I still stand by that argument. I think BD-R can last up to 20 years, let alone M-Disc lasting up to a 100 years. But this this painful bumping'n'grinding is what I hate about optical media. If that could be done away with somehow I would be more proud to use this older technology without question.

And btw, I think I have said this in times past, but it seems like ImgBurn can get a read on discs faster than Windows, at least sometimes. And I think that has to do with the way the software attempts to read the volume and file descriptors on the disc. So, there's that factor also in all of this craziness.

Edited January 27 by AlbertEinstein

[dbminter]

A sector by sector read approach, as ImgBurn would do, would be faster than the somewhat brute force method that File Explorer does.

 

What BD drive are you using, BTW?  The locked up responses sound more like hardware inconsistencies, which would be down to the drive.  For instance, it rarely takes more than 10 seconds for a folder's contents on a BD-R to be recognized on my system in File Explorer.

[AlbertEinstein]

14 minutes ago, dbminter said:

A sector by sector read approach, as ImgBurn would do, would be faster than the somewhat brute force method that File Explorer does.

 

What BD drive are you using, BTW?  The locked up responses sound more like hardware inconsistencies, which would be down to the drive.  For instance, it rarely takes more than 10 seconds for a folder's contents on a BD-R to be recognized on my system in File Explorer.

My BD-R drive is an LG WH10LS30 with firmware 1.02 which is the latest available according to the LG support website.

Edited January 27 by AlbertEinstein

[dbminter]

I'm not familiar with that model.  I have used the WH16NS40 and NS60 before.  I used the NS60 for years.  I never had such issues.

 

Firmware probably wouldn't make a difference in a case like this.

[AlbertEinstein]

46 minutes ago, dbminter said:

I'm not familiar with that model.  I have used the WH16NS40 and NS60 before.  I used the NS60 for years.  I never had such issues.

 

Firmware probably wouldn't make a difference in a case like this.

I just used ImgBurn to verify the disc and it finished in 12+ minutes. No reported errors. So, this is the randomness I speak of. But again, it might be more related to the Windows software than my hardware. ImgBurn had no trouble at all verifying the disc.

[dbminter]

That sounds a bit slow for a BD-R.  Unless it was a DL BD disc.

[AlbertEinstein]

1 hour ago, dbminter said:

That sounds a bit slow for a BD-R.  Unless it was a DL BD disc.

No, it's not. Although, I have some BD-R DL I have burned, this specific disc isn't that.

[dbminter]

A write of a full BD-R should take about 15 to 20 minutes at 12x and a read operation is faster than a write.

[AlbertEinstein]

39 minutes ago, dbminter said:

A write of a full BD-R should take about 15 to 20 minutes at 12x and a read operation is faster than a write.

This is all well and good but I specifically do my burns at 2x because I'm very safe and conservative about the process. Does the burn speed literally burn the maximum read speed into the media as well?

[dbminter]

No, the Read speeds are set on the media regardless of the maximum write speed used to burn a disc.

[AlbertEinstein]

On 1/27/2024 at 12:41 PM, dbminter said:

A sector by sector read approach, as ImgBurn would do, would be faster than the somewhat brute force method that File Explorer does.

 

What BD drive are you using, BTW?  The locked up responses sound more like hardware inconsistencies, which would be down to the drive.  For instance, it rarely takes more than 10 seconds for a folder's contents on a BD-R to be recognized on my system in File Explorer.

I know this is an old thread but since I am still suffering from the same issue with the same BD-R optical media player I want to ask a new question which eluded me the first time around.

The constant bumping'n'grinding that my BD-R just can't get enough of...could it be due to a dirty laser lens? I've never even thought about this the first time I posted this question. I've never used or let alone purchased an optical media lens cleaning kit. But years later, this just makes some sense, that maybe I do need to purchase an optical media laser lens cleaning kit.

You have an LG BD-R optical media burner just like me. You never experience this issue, so why should I have to?

Maybe it's not poor burns or even poor media but just a dirty optical laser lens which prolongs my agony?

Is this my ticket to nirvana? What are your thoughts?

Edited July 11 by AlbertEinstein

[dbminter]

Generally, cleaning discs for standalone optical devices have been recommended to avoid.  At best they do nothing and at worst they scratch the lens.

 

General grinding issues are the result of the laser being unable to properly read the data.  And this is generally down to a conflict between the media itself and the laser.  For instance, on the PS3, it hated MEMOREX/RITEK BD-R but had no issues with VERBAT-IM BD-R.

 

The easiest way to check further is post the log of a full write of a burn of one of these BD-R that causes the grinding.  If you can't get one and don't want to burn another test BD-R, you can put a disc in the drive, open ImgBurn in Write Mode, and check the pane of information on the right hand side.  Look for what it says under Disc ID (DID) or Manufacturer ID (MID).  What does it say is the manufacturer of the BD-R?  If it says CMC anywhere in it, that's probably the issue.    Although RITEK and RICOH can be a cause.  If it says VERBAT anywhere in it, then the issue is not necessarily so clear cut.

[AlbertEinstein]

On 7/11/2024 at 5:20 PM, dbminter said:

Generally, cleaning discs for standalone optical devices have been recommended to avoid.  At best they do nothing and at worst they scratch the lens.

 

General grinding issues are the result of the laser being unable to properly read the data.  And this is generally down to a conflict between the media itself and the laser.  For instance, on the PS3, it hated MEMOREX/RITEK BD-R but had no issues with VERBAT-IM BD-R.

 

The easiest way to check further is post the log of a full write of a burn of one of these BD-R that causes the grinding.  If you can't get one and don't want to burn another test BD-R, you can put a disc in the drive, open ImgBurn in Write Mode, and check the pane of information on the right hand side.  Look for what it says under Disc ID (DID) or Manufacturer ID (MID).  What does it say is the manufacturer of the BD-R?  If it says CMC anywhere in it, that's probably the issue.    Although RITEK and RICOH can be a cause.  If it says VERBAT anywhere in it, then the issue is not necessarily so clear cut.

Hi there. Thank You for your post. It will save me the money I was apparently going to "BLOW" on a Memorex optical media cleaning kit.

I can tell you all the brands of BD-R media I've purchased over the lifetime of owning the LG BD-R optical drive:

Optical Quantum and RiDATA from New Egg.

I never delete my log files so I have a history of probably over 20 burns. I looked in the log files and couldn't find anything that contains 'MID' or 'CMC'.

I also looked at my last burned BD-R in the 'Write Mode' as you suggested. It shows a lot of meta-data but nothing that identifies the disc. Does this step require an unburned BD-R disc to get that information?

Anyhow, you're probably spot on. My media is mostly Optical Quantum and RiTECH. I've never purchased Verbatim BD-R media. But if that would eliminate the grinding it  might be worth it to me. My BD-R motor has probably lost 50% of it's natural life from bumping'n'grinding. So, I guess we all end up paying the same, one way or another.

And lastly, and ironically, the BD-R disc seems to behaving perfectly at the moment using your ImgBurn software to access the media.

I don't know what causes it to work perfectly at times and horribly at others on the same PC and the same disc. Bizarre!

 

 

Edited July 13 by AlbertEinstein

[dbminter]

Any burned disc will return the same information.  It may not do it in Write Mode so you may have to go into Read Mode.  Somewhere in the right hand pane of info, there should be something that says Manufacturer ID.

 

The burner in your PC probably doesn't have a problem with those Ritek discs, but your BD player apparently does, if you're using a standalone BD player.

 

I've used primarily Verbatim BD-R for the past 10 years.  I tried a few Sony; they were junk.  Memorex's Ritek's caused playback problems on the PS3.  It would skip over entire title sets, including the opening one and some it would play only partially, skipping over parts of it.  The same contents burned to Verbatim BD-R all played back normally.

 

So, I've got experience with Ritek's poor playback quality with BD-R on the PS3.  I'd expect the same sort of results on other BD players.

 

I would try some of the Verbatim BD-R and see if those work better.  Since you also purchased from NewEgg and your account info verifies it, it says you're in the US like I am.  I get my Verbatim BD-R from Amazon.com.  You can find them at Office Depot brick and mortar stores, too.  And you can order just like 10 of them at a time from Amazon.com to test out and see if you get better results without having to invest much to see if they're better.

[AlbertEinstein]

I may try this when I run out of my current fat stack of RiTECH BD-R discs. 

Oh, also. I guess I lied. So, that makes me a LIAR! Okay, I'm just kidding. I forgot. I did purchase a stack of BD-R DL discs in 2023 called 'ValueDisc' from Amazon.

Although, I'm not even sure if I've had problems with those. I'll have to start monitoring when my BD-R is 'bumping and a grinding...GOOD TIMES' and when it's not.

I don't own a stand alone Blu Ray player. I use the single LG BD-R internal optical drive on my PC for everything, including watching movies burned to BD-R.

That's a good idea though. I could test these on a stand alone BD-R player to see how they do.

[AlbertEinstein]

Another thought has crept into my brain since my last post. I notice that a lot of this bumping'n'grinding occurs randomly when Windows wakes my PC up out of it's sleep mode. I am wondering if Microsoft's Windows is trying to do some virus scan or file indexing or some other "service" on the optical disc without regard for the very fact that it is an optical disc volume.

This would explain the "working perfectly at times" and bumping'n'grinding horribly at other times on the same media...

It may not be an issue with the media at all, just a function of what the software is trying to do with it...

[AlbertEinstein]

Actually, I've been playing with PowerShell today using the Get-ChildItem command for a listing of files on my BD-R optical media. I got a ton of read errors along the following lines:

+ CategoryInfo          : ReadError: (I:\archives\data\private\video\homemade:String) [Get-ChildItem], IOException
    + FullyQualifiedErrorId : DirIOError,Microsoft.PowerShell.Commands.GetChildItemCommand

And issuing this command in succession gets different results. The first execution got only 82 results. The second execution got 168 results. So very random.

So, I'm pretty sure at this point, the ever-present bumping'n'grinding on my optical drive/media is a fault of either the BD-R drive itself or just crappy optical media. I really should try a more high quality brand like Verbatim.

So, I've adjusted my theory yet again. I think it's 100% related to the optical drive or the media and has nothing to do with Windows...at least not much if at all.

Edited September 13 by AlbertEinstein