PTP burning to DL media - again

[Neil Wilkes]

I know this has been discussed before, and I was told in no uncertain terms it is not possible.

However, I have since been talking to VSO software in france, and they say this is not correct

and that all is needed would be an instruction to the burner to move the heads back to the inner point before writing Layer 1.

 

What is the truth here please?

I desperately need DL PTP writing, and cannot accept there is no way to do this.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

I know the VSO team and you must have spoken to some dodgy tech support person.

 

It's not possible without PTP media.

 

The drive just won't burn it how you want it to.

 

It knows that when it switches layers, the next LBA after the outer circle on L0 is in the outer circle on L1 - and not on the inner circle on L1.

 

Sorry but you need to give up on this one! At least until someone perhaps hacks some firmware and rewrites the entire OTP disc burning code.

[Neil Wilkes]

I know the VSO team and you must have spoken to some dodgy tech support person.

 

It's not possible without PTP media.

 

The drive just won't burn it how you want it to.

 

It knows that when it switches layers, the next LBA after the outer circle on L0 is in the outer circle on L1 - and not on the inner circle on L1.

 

Sorry but you need to give up on this one! At least until someone perhaps hacks some firmware and rewrites the entire OTP disc burning code.

 

 

Fully understood.

Can I please quote you on this one, as VSO just won't have it.

I have pointed out to them what you say before, and I know who I believe here!! (Clue - not the french!)

They are still saying they can pull it off.

[lfcrule1972]

I don't see how they can without the PTP media ?? I don't doubt the boss on this one either

[dontasciime]

They are still saying they can pull it off

 

Sure you got through to Vso and not some French brothal ?

[Neil Wilkes]

I don't see how they can without the PTP media ?? I don't doubt the boss on this one either

 

I just got off the 'phone to Verbatim & they tell me that it is a drive & firmware limitation, not media.

The media is capable of PTP, as it (apparently) doesn't care either way.

I have talked to Pioneer, who say they will get back to me tomorrow morning about any (if any) drives that are PTP capable.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Ok, I guess that makes sense.

 

I've still never seen any mention of special PTP commands in the MCC spec, nor have I seen any drives list DL media as a PTP disc.

 

If the media works both ways, the drive must be able to change between OTP and PTP mode by being sent the appropriate command (which doesn't exist afaik).

 

If any drive does ever support it, I'm sure all programs will soon be updated to allow for it.

 

At the moment, programs just specify a sector number to write to and pass the drive some data. We have no control over where that sector number maps to as a physical location on the media.

[volvofl10]

I desperately need DL PTP writing, and cannot accept there is no way to do this.

 

have to ask,...............why ? . and ..................why isnt OTP good enough for your needs

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Obviously he's still trying to copy a car navigation disc or something!

 

I think I'd have given up a long time ago.

[volvofl10]

Obviously he's still trying to copy a car navigation disc or something!

 

I think I'd have given up a long time ago.

 

I did ..................................and i gave up on the other thing that needed PTP a long time ago as well LOL

[lfcrule1972]

Which was volvo ?

[Neil Wilkes]

I desperately need DL PTP writing, and cannot accept there is no way to do this.

 

have to ask,...............why ? . and ..................why isnt OTP good enough for your needs

 

Simple.

I am still making quite a nice amount of money doing DVD-Audio authoring.

As seamless layers are not really common, due to the inclusion of both Audio_TS as well as Video_TS folders, it is an acceptable way of working to create the final DVD9 master image as PTP, placing the Audio_TS on Layer 0 and the Video_TS on Layer 1.

Whilst this is all fine & dandy on the end result - replicated discs - I still need to create QC discs for the clients to check.

Currently I am having to write these as OTP. This always places the layer break right in the middle of the Video_TS content, and is unacceptable.

This is not the right format, as the final disc is PTP.

 

Another reason is that PTP allows me to have more data on Layer 1 than on Layer 0. This is also important to me, as the Video_TS is (nearly) always larger than the Audio_TS, and in DVD-A, the Audio_TS gets written first. That is the way the authoring application does it, and OTP/PTP are both acceptable for obvious reasons.

 

 

There are also - although I do not create these - many PTP DVD-ROM discs.

Not all of us create only DVD-Video discs.

Edited February 15, 2007 by Neil Wilkes

[dontasciime]

GT4 maybe

[dontasciime]

DVD-Audio authoring

with what ?

[volvofl10]

GT4 maybe

 

BWA HA HA HA , who me ? , nah , not possible ...i was'nt even there you cant prove a thing ossifer , must of been something else .

In fact , we even bought that one thinking about it

 

EDIT - heres the evidence as well LOL

 

[blutach]

I tried to copy a car nav disk for a mate a little while back. First layer, as expected burned sweet (and was usable) but the second layer no dice.

 

It would be a huge breakthrough to be able to write these disks to regular OTP media as these disks are so damn expensive and if people think they need to backup a regular DVD Video, they sure as hell need a backup of these babys.

 

For mine, I have a Tom Tom - they use an SD card

 

Regards

[blutach]

I desperately need DL PTP writing, and cannot accept there is no way to do this.

 

have to ask,...............why ? . and ..................why isnt OTP good enough for your needs

 

Simple.

I am still making quite a nice amount of money doing DVD-Audio authoring.

As seamless layers are not really common, due to the inclusion of both Audio_TS as well as Video_TS folders, it is an acceptable way of working to create the final DVD9 master image as PTP, placing the Audio_TS on Layer 0 and the Video_TS on Layer 1.

Whilst this is all fine & dandy on the end result - replicated discs - I still need to create QC discs for the clients to check.

Currently I am having to write these as OTP. This always places the layer break right in the middle of the Video_TS content, and is unacceptable.

This is not the right format, as the final disc is PTP.

 

Another reason is that PTP allows me to have more data on Layer 1 than on Layer 0. This is also important to me, as the Video_TS is (nearly) always larger than the Audio_TS, and in DVD-A, the Audio_TS gets written first. That is the way the authoring application does it, and OTP/PTP are both acceptable for obvious reasons.

 

 

There are also - although I do not create these - many PTP DVD-ROM discs.

Not all of us create only DVD-Video discs.

Consider a seamless layer break option.

 

Regards

[lfcrule1972]

How do Nav discs get knacked when they are only in the nav players all the time ? It's not like with DVDs getting ejected all the time and kids playing with them is it ?

[volvofl10]

Women take them out the machine and try and find places on them, thinking the disc is a map , hence it gets scratched

[dontasciime]

[Neil Wilkes]

Consider a seamless layer break option.

 

Regards

 

Did you actually bother to read what I wrote in reply?

How in gods name can you set an OTP seamless layer break when the data on Layer 1 is LARGER, repeat LARGER than on Layer 0?

[Groundrush]

Women take them out the machine and try and find places on them, thinking the disc is a map , hence it gets scratched

 

 

Go figure.... =))

Like blu, I use a Garmin + SD card.

[blutach]

@Neil Wilkes

 

Ignoring that your mother had more than just a hard time teaching you how to be polite - perhaps she ran out of castor oil - I did read what you wrote, yes.

 

You don't have to author it that way. And perhaps you can break where visually the pause won't matter.

 

In any event, please go back to mum and ask for lessons in being polite.

 

Regards

[necrocracker]

The last time when I posted this topic, for very same reason that layer 1 was larger than layer 0 and I wanted to give clients as exact a test disc as possible, it was determined that the media was the problem. The reason is that OTP and PTP media are indeed different.

 

Since DVD drives only spin the disc in one direction, the track spiral path must match this. For OTP media, the spiral direction on the two layers is opposite (Opposite Track Path) since the laser reads from the center out and then switches layers and reads from that point back to the center. For PTP media (Parallel Track Path) the spiral direction is the same for both layers since the laser starts at the center and reads out for each layer.

 

You can use a record player for an example. The record only spins in one direction and when the needle follows the path, it reads from the center out. If you try to keep the record going in the same direction, and read from the outside back in, it doesn't sound so good. There is no path to follow back to the center without jumping ridges.

 

The only way to accomplish center out reading on a current disc would be to stop the disc at the end of layer 0 and then spin it backwards for the second layer. I think this would require a little more than a firware upgrade.

 

Another option would be if you could call the recorder to jump to the edge of the disc when it switches layers and start recording back from the very outside. This would allow you to have layer 1 larger than layer 0, but even if you could command a recorder to do this, I gaurantee it would not play on 99% of players as it is a violation of DVD-Spec. Even if it did work, it would still not be PTP.

 

I'm not sure why anybody at Verbatim would tell you that it is possible. It is the physical limitations of their discs that will not allow for this. Please correct me if I am wrong about any of this. I would love to be able to burn PTP.

 

NC

[lfcrule1972]

That has always been my understanding too - like you I was surprised when Verbatim said it could be done. Maybe their tech support team were having a bad day ?