USB - memory stick support

Andersk · July 1, 2007

Hi

I am using USB devices (memory sticks, harddisks and dvd burner) , for backup and other stuf.

The good thing is that if you put two or more USB devices it is extremly effecient.

for example when running a dvd converter using a wmf file on one USB memory stick and saving the converted file on another usb device it doesnt use much of the CPU).

Img burn however is rather slow with any of the different usb sticks I have tried.

When building two files to an iso file on a USB device, the overall time is app 15 minutes for 350 mb.

For comparasing I have tried to create a truecrypt file on the same USB device, and imgburn is now using app 4-5 minutes to build 350 mb iso. However the cpu is used (compared to the version building directly on the USB device).

I do not know if this a bug or rather a wish for an enhancement but I think that it would be nice if imgburn was quicker when using usb devices

Anders Karbek

**LIGHTNING UK!** · July 1, 2007

The File I/O is done using standard Windows API calls, I'm not sure there's much room for improvement.

Andersk · July 3, 2007

The File I/O is done using standard Windows API calls, I'm not sure there's much room for improvement.

Hi

Thats reasonable.

I do not know anything about the windows API for disk access / multimedia access, but in my experience with other API's that there is many options to be used when calling an API.

Hopefully you will not be too offended that if i had a wild guess I would think that the API has set an option - of lets say - "do not use write delay" - or any option that is required for the timing of the burning operation (what about:"update and synchronize the fat table for every block ?) and a harddisk is so quick that it has no impact on the overal speed.

NB maybe it is the problem that usb memory is using FAT?

But as I have said that packagers, multiedia, converters (i.e a lots of programs) - and even microsofts own programs can save files to an USB memory stick (usb 2 ) to app 2-5 mbyte / second.

As my native language is not english I hope that I have not offended you

If I find anything on the subject i will post again.

Anders K

**LIGHTNING UK!** · July 3, 2007

Out of interest, is it slow if you build hdd to usb or just usb to usb?

What if you go usb to hdd, is that slow?

Actually, thinking about it, I don't suppose write cache is enabled for those usb devices and I pretty much deal in sectors within the program. I guess that would bring about a lot of overhead if the OS isn't caching it and then doing 1 larger 'write' operation.

When I get a minute I'll look into it a bit more closely.

**dontasciime** · July 4, 2007

Optimized for quick removal

I 11:12:07 ImgBurn Version 2.3.2.0 started!

I 11:12:07 Microsoft Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600 : Service Pack 2)

I 11:12:07 Total Physical Memory: 1,048,048 KB - Available: 706,732 KB

W 11:12:07 Drive C:\ (FAT32) does not support single files > 4 GB in size.

W 11:12:07 Drive D:\ (FAT32) does not support single files > 4 GB in size.

I 11:12:07 Initialising SPTI...

I 11:12:07 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...

I 11:12:07 Found 1 DVD-ROM and 1 DVD

rep1.rar

**dontasciime** · July 4, 2007

File system and allocation make a huge difference (not so much allocation) Ntfs is 3x faster or 13x from average

I 13:08:26 ImgBurn Version 2.3.2.0 started!

I 13:08:26 Microsoft Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600 : Service Pack 2)

I 13:08:26 Total Physical Memory: 1,048,048 KB - Available: 632,208 KB

W 13:08:26 Drive C:\ (FAT32) does not support single files > 4 GB in size.

W 13:08:26 Drive D:\ (FAT32) does not support single files > 4 GB in size.

I 13:08:26 Initialising SPTI...

I 13:08:26 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...

I 13:08:26 Found 1 DVD-ROM and 1 DVD

**LIGHTNING UK!** · July 4, 2007

Hmm I see the problem but don't know of a way around it.

Firstly, unless the drive uses NTFS, the files aren't pre-allocated (It takes ages on FAT / FAT32 (compared to NTFS) so I avoided it). That basically means that for every 'Write' operation that extends the lengh of the file, the file system gets updated (by windows) to reflect that change.

That of course means there's a lot of random accessing going on, and USB memory sticks are very slow in that sense.

I can get rid of that overhead by pre-allocating on all filesystems.

Ok, so once that's implemented (very easy), the whole thing is a bit faster.

The next issue is that for some VERY odd reason, windows decided to write to the drive twice.

I send my data in chunks of 65536 bytes. I can see windows writing the data physically to the drive using the same transfer length, but it's issuing two commands for the same data, and to the same LBA.

One is for 65536 bytes, the other is for 4096.

Again, I've *NO* idea why it's doing that - and it is again introducing 'random access' into the write equation meaning it can never be quick.

I'll keep digging / playing

**dontasciime** · July 4, 2007

Is there any way to format usb pen to 64k cluster(whilst using ntfs) instead of 4096 bytes (default for ntfs) ?

**mmalves** · July 4, 2007

Is there any way to format usb pen to 64k cluster(whilst using ntfs) instead of 4096 bytes (default for ntfs) ?

Have you tried using the Disk Management (diskmgmt.msc) snap-in?

**LIGHTNING UK!** · July 4, 2007

I've sussed it now bit it's going to take some tinkering to make sure i don't break other stuff!

**dontasciime** · July 4, 2007

Have you tried using the Disk Management (diskmgmt.msc) snap-in?

mine won't let me choose 64k on ntfs infact mine willnot let me choose ntfs at all for the usb 4 gig pen

I was trying to see if 64k would help or rather to see if L_UK could try with 64k to stop duplicate writing as he mentioned he works in blocks of 65536 and that was written but along with 4096 (which is what my 4 gig usb defaults to when formatted to ntfs)

**LIGHTNING UK!** · July 4, 2007

i formatted mine to ntfs manually using the command prompt

format g: /fs:ntfs

You need to change it to 'optimise for performance' in device manager first though before it'll let you.

But it's not worth messing around with really as the fix I have now works for all filesystems - you just have to bypass the OS buffering using an extra flag in the 'CreateFile' api.

Trouble is that you then can't write randomly sized amounts of data to the file, it always has to be a multiple of the sector size.

**dontasciime** · July 4, 2007

Could there be a switch to use older style for Ntfs use (with fat at slower rate) and new style for Fat/32 use ?

I am not that bothered with how fat/32 works at moment as I rarely build iso to Pen and if i needed to would switch to Ntfs as i also do not want to destroy pen with so many write operations.

**LIGHTNING UK!** · July 4, 2007

BEFORE:

I 22:06:05 ImgBurn Version 2.3.2.0 started!

I 22:06:05 Microsoft Windows Server 2003, Standard Edition (5.2, Build 3790 : Service Pack 2)

I 22:06:05 Total Physical Memory: 2,094,704 KB - Available: 290,000 KB

I 22:06:05 Initialising SPTI...

I 22:06:05 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...

I 22:06:05 Found 2 DVD-ROMs, 2 DVD

**dontasciime** · July 5, 2007

Can anyone on here that is using vista ultimate and say a 4 gig pen (might have to be a dual channel one like my rally 4 gig) see how long vista takes to format as it's taking ages on my laptop whilst using vista (under xp on lappy and on other comps xp formats it in about 30 seconds (NOT quick format)

I will have to look for my other 4 gig pens that don't use dual channel in the meantime or see if i can find my 2 gig sandisk, you can never find them when you need em or when you get blaze with your stuff thanks

**dontasciime** · July 5, 2007

Lol

After messing on with vista and flash pens on lappy Vista is spitting the dummy, Lots of usb pen needs formatting, to crashes to not being able to safely remove at all, It's seems like Vista does something similar to what xp does when it craps out and chucks you into pio mode for dma etc, However uninstalling/re installing the ehci usb seems to fix it but speeds are crap afterwards.

Looks like I will have to put ghost image back in to fix it (hopefully) though XP on the lappy still works as expected (well not quite as fast as on this comps usb2) but still reasonable so that at least calmed my nerves when i thought all 3 usb ports on lappy were fried

Edit

I uninstalled the 3 root hubs and now it seems to be playing ball or the threat of ghost image scared it back to life, Gonna have to keep an eye on this, seems un predictable vista

another edit seems like in vista I cannot use the write test in hd tach anymore comes back with error or i closed it according to vista . Are ms sure it was meant to be released ?

**LIGHTNING UK!** · July 6, 2007

Just tried my latest USB pen drive, a Corsair Flash Voyager GT 8GB

I 14:40:56 HDD Tools Version 0.0.0.5 Beta started!
I 14:40:56 Microsoft Windows Server 2003, Standard Edition (5.2, Build 3790 : Service Pack 2)
I 14:40:56 Initialising SPTI...
I 14:40:56 Searching for SCSI / ATA devices...
I 14:40:56 Found 6 Fixed Disks!
I 14:41:26 Operation Started!
I 14:41:26 Device: [0:0:0] Corsair VoyagerGT 1100 (USB)
I 14:41:26 Device Sectors: 16,187,392
I 14:41:26 Device Size: 8,287,944,704 bytes
I 14:41:26 Action: Wipe + Verify
I 14:41:26 Passes: 1
I 14:41:26 Wiping Sectors...
I 14:47:13 Wipe Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:05:46
I 14:47:13 Average I/O Rate: 23,392 KB/s - Maximum I/O Rate: 24,866 KB/s
I 14:47:13 Verifying Sectors...
I 14:51:31 Verify Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:04:18
I 14:51:31 Average I/O Rate: 31,370 KB/s - Maximum I/O Rate: 31,570 KB/s
I 14:51:31 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:10:05

BEFORE:

I 15:26:54 ImgBurn Version 2.3.2.0 started!

I 15:26:54 Microsoft Windows Server 2003, Standard Edition (5.2, Build 3790 : Service Pack 2)

I 15:26:54 Total Physical Memory: 2,094,704 KB - Available: 890,236 KB

I 15:26:54 Initialising SPTI...

I 15:26:54 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...

I 15:26:55 Found 2 DVD-ROMs, 2 DVD

**dontasciime** · July 6, 2007

They seem fast especially as they are 8 gig. ( Stamp on the one you used the other day)

I got my rally ocz because they were supposed to be the fastest thing on the market, the 512 meg was the first 1 i got then a 2 gig which i have lost then 2 X 4 gig ones, each version and storage capacity pulled down the speed.

Looks like corsair here I come

edit ooh i see they do a 16 gig version (edit) arrgh it wont be a fast GT one

If you get a chance can you see how it reacts in Vista Ultimate with writes ticked with properties for hardware as optimised for performance.

Cheers

**dontasciime** · July 6, 2007

Pity the 16 gig ones are not that fast, just bought the 8 gig version for now until they step up to 16 gig.

I got a good price cheaper than my first rally ocz 4 gig which I paid

**LIGHTNING UK!** · July 6, 2007

Yup, shame they didn't do a 16GB but then 8GB is still a lot bigger than my previous one - a lexar firefly 2gb!

I got mine from ebuyer for ~

**dontasciime** · July 6, 2007

I usually get a lot of stuff from ebuyer but never checked on their today.

I got mine for

**LIGHTNING UK!** · July 6, 2007

46 already?! I only got the bloody thing yesterday! I was on the cheapo 3 day free shipping though so I guess I ordered it a few days ago.

Damn it, I've been done!

**LIGHTNING UK!** · July 6, 2007

Ah, that's not my one. The one for 46.50 is the non GT version.

Mine is this one:

http://www.google.co.uk/products?hl=en&amp...1&scoring=p

For some odd reason mine isn't even on ebuyer now!

**dontasciime** · July 6, 2007

Yeah I sort of thought it was not the gt version when I looked, but the reviews says 65 quid and say it is fast umm and it has same code I think ah without the gt at end

Ebuyer are piss poor for descriptions though.

Strange its not on ebuyer site

**LIGHTNING UK!** · July 6, 2007

It's CMFUSB2.0-8GB Vs CMFUSB2.0-8GBGT

The GT's are the black / red ones.

Normal are black / blue.

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USB - memory stick support

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