Black Hole Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) Hello, I've been a long time user of Decrypter and ImgBurn and this is the very first time I have a problem. I have successfully burned many Dual Layer discs in the past, but this one is failing. I got an ISO of a DL DVD which is less than 5.5 GB long. I burned the ISO without any problem but then the disc didn't work in my 2 home DVD players (CyberHome ADL-528 and Best Buy Easy Home DVD) which accept any other DVD+R DL burnt in the past. I extracted the contents from the ISO to another directory. I checked the MD5 sums against the ones from the DVD and were the same. So I tried to burn another disc using the "Build" option within ImgBurn, just in case it got mad with the ISO file provided before: I 13:44:23 ImgBurn Version 2.3.2.0 started! I 13:44:23 Microsoft Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600 : Service Pack 2) I 13:44:23 Total Physical Memory: 1.048.040 KB - Available: 302.968 KB I 13:44:23 Initialising SPTI... I 13:44:23 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices... I 13:44:23 Found 1 DVD-ROM and 1 DVD±RW! I 13:46:19 Operation Started! I 13:46:19 Building Image Tree... I 13:46:19 Checking Directory Depth... I 13:46:19 Calculating Totals... I 13:46:19 Preparing Image... I 13:47:06 Using Layer Break LBA: 2003144 -> 2003152 (VTS_01, PGC: 1, Chapter: 12, Cell: 13, Vob/Cell ID: 2/1, Time: 00:53:53, SPLIP: No) I 13:47:06 Checking Path Length... I 13:47:06 Image Size: 5.881.856.000 bytes I 13:47:06 Image Sectors: 2.872.000 I 13:47:08 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:00:48 I 13:47:08 Operation Started! I 13:47:08 Source File: -==/\/[bUILD IMAGE]\/\==- I 13:47:08 Source File Sectors: 2.872.000 (MODE1/2048) I 13:47:08 Source File Size: 5.881.856.000 bytes I 13:47:08 Source File Volume Identifier: YOKOHAMA ARENA I 13:47:08 Source File Application Identifier: IMGBURN V2.3.2.0 - THE ULTIMATE IMAGE BURNER! I 13:47:08 Source File Implementation Identifier: ImgBurn I 13:47:08 Source File File System(s): ISO9660; UDF (1.02) I 13:47:08 Destination Device: [0:0:0] BENQ DVD LS DW1655 BCIB (G:) (ATA) I 13:47:08 Destination Media Type: DVD+R DL (Disc ID: MKM-001-00) (Speeds: 2,4x) I 13:47:08 Destination Media Sectors: 4.173.824 I 13:47:08 Write Mode: DVD I 13:47:08 Write Type: DAO I 13:47:08 Write Speed: MAX I 13:47:08 Link Size: Auto I 13:47:08 Test Mode: No I 13:47:08 BURN-Proof: Enabled I 13:47:08 Optimal L0 Data Zone Capacity: 2.003.152 I 13:47:08 Optimal L0 Data Zone Method: IFO Cell Boundary, 'SPLIP' Flag Not Set I 13:47:19 Filling Buffer... (127 MB) I 13:47:21 Writing LeadIn... I 13:47:48 Writing Image... (LBA: 0 - 2871999) I 13:47:48 Writing Layer 0... (LBA: 0 - 2003151) I 14:10:05 Writing Layer 1... (LBA: 2003152 - 2871999) I 14:20:14 Synchronising Cache... I 14:20:15 Closing Track... I 14:20:17 Finalising Disc... I 14:22:28 Image MD5: 14f01c942a383a05ee3b228e027f6e98 I 14:22:28 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:35:19 I 14:22:28 Average Write Rate: 2.953 KB/s (2.1x) - Maximum Write Rate: 3.387 KB/s (2.4x) I 14:22:28 Cycling Tray before Verify... W 14:22:41 Waiting for device to become ready... I 14:22:54 Device Ready! I 14:22:54 Operation Started! I 14:22:54 Source Device: [0:0:0] BENQ DVD LS DW1655 BCIB (G:) (ATA) I 14:22:54 Source Media Type: DVD+R DL (Book Type: DVD-ROM) (Disc ID: MKM-001-00) (Speeds: 2,4x) I 14:22:54 Image File: -==/\/[bUILD IMAGE]\/\==- I 14:22:54 Image File Sectors: 2.872.000 (MODE1/2048) I 14:22:54 Image File Size: 5.881.856.000 bytes I 14:22:54 Image File Volume Identifier: YOKOHAMA ARENA I 14:22:54 Image File Application Identifier: IMGBURN V2.3.2.0 - THE ULTIMATE IMAGE BURNER! I 14:22:54 Image File Implementation Identifier: ImgBurn I 14:22:54 Image File File System(s): ISO9660; UDF (1.02) I 14:22:54 Verifying Sectors... (LBA: 0 - 2871999) I 14:22:54 Verifying Layer 0... (LBA: 0 - 2003151) I 14:28:57 Verifying Layer 1... (LBA: 2003152 - 2871999) I 14:31:58 Device MD5: 14f01c942a383a05ee3b228e027f6e98 I 14:31:58 Image MD5: 14f01c942a383a05ee3b228e027f6e98 I 14:31:59 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:09:04 I 14:31:59 Average Verify Rate: 10.558 KB/s (7.6x) - Maximum Verify Rate: 16.298 KB/s (11.8x) Again no errors at all, as you can see in the log above. But the disc refuses to be recognized in the DVD players, as it starts to click several times before the "Bad Disc" message appears on my TV screen. There is something "peculiar" regarding to this disc. The layer break is at 70/30 % point, so a full first layer is burnt and only a fraction of the second layer, so you can clearly see the different colours of the disc dye. Could it be the problem? Is out of specification? Can the layers be so different in size? Should ImgBurn have padded the second layer in full? Reauthoring programs such as DVD Remake Pro don't detect any errors in DVD structure. In case you're wondering, this is the information stored in the IFO file given by IfoEdit program: VTS overview: Menu attributes: Video: MPEG-2 720x480 (NTSC) (NTSC 525/60) (16:9) (letterboxed) Audio 1: Not Specified (Linear PCM) 2ch 48Kbps 16bps SubPicture 1: Not Specified (2-bit rle ) Title Set (Movie) attributes: Video: MPEG-2 720x480 (NTSC) (NTSC 525/60) (16:9) (letterboxed) Audio 1: Japanese (Linear PCM) 2ch 48Kbps 16bps (ID: 0xa0) Audio 2: Japanese (Dolby AC-3) 6ch 48Kbps DRC (ID: 0x81) PGC_1 (program chain): [Title(TTN): 1] [01:17:40.29 / 30 fps] (Programs: 18) (Cells: 19) (uses VOB-IDs: 1,2) [Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] [V/C Id: 1/ 1] : time: 00:01:11.20 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:01:11.20] [Frames: 2150] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no] [Ch 02] [Pg 02] [Cell 02] [V/C Id: 1/ 2] : time: 00:03:25.15 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:04:37.05] [Frames: 8315] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no] [Ch 03] [Pg 03] [Cell 03] [V/C Id: 1/ 3] : time: 00:04:16.17 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:08:53.22] [Frames: 16012] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no] [Ch 04] [Pg 04] [Cell 04] [V/C Id: 1/ 4] : time: 00:05:52.05 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:14:45.27] [Frames: 26577] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no] [Ch 05] [Pg 05] [Cell 05] [V/C Id: 1/ 5] : time: 00:04:20.00 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:19:05.27] [Frames: 34377] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no] [Ch 06] [Pg 06] [Cell 06] [V/C Id: 1/ 6] : time: 00:05:20.09 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:24:26.06] [Frames: 43986] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no] [Ch 07] [Pg 07] [Cell 07] [V/C Id: 1/ 7] : time: 00:04:58.27 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:29:25.03] [Frames: 52953] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no] [Ch 08] [Pg 08] [Cell 08] [V/C Id: 1/ 8] : time: 00:03:18.03 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:32:43.06] [Frames: 58896] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no] [Ch 09] [Pg 09] [Cell 09] [V/C Id: 1/ 9] : time: 00:05:13.24 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:37:57.00] [Frames: 68310] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no] [Ch 10] [Pg 10] [Cell 10] [V/C Id: 1/10] : time: 00:04:07.11 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:42:04.11] [Frames: 75731] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no] [Ch 11] [Pg 11] [Cell 11] [V/C Id: 1/11] : time: 00:05:37.02 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:47:41.13] [Frames: 85843] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no] [Ch 12] [Pg 12] [Cell 12] [V/C Id: 1/12] : time: 00:06:11.17 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:53:53.00] [Frames: 96990] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no] [Cell 13] [V/C Id: 2/ 1] Layer Br.: time: 00:00:27.27 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:54:20.27] [Frames: 97827] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no] [Ch 13] [Pg 13] [Cell 14] [V/C Id: 2/ 2] : time: 00:02:17.21 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:56:38.18] [Frames: 101958] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no] [Ch 14] [Pg 14] [Cell 15] [V/C Id: 2/ 3] : time: 00:03:40.17 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:00:19.05] [Frames: 108575] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no] [Ch 15] [Pg 15] [Cell 16] [V/C Id: 2/ 4] : time: 00:02:05.10 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:02:24.15] [Frames: 112335] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no] [Ch 16] [Pg 16] [Cell 17] [V/C Id: 2/ 5] : time: 00:04:37.21 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:07:02.06] [Frames: 120666] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no] [Ch 17] [Pg 17] [Cell 18] [V/C Id: 2/ 6] : time: 00:07:50.29 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:14:53.05] [Frames: 134795] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no] [Ch 18] [Pg 18] [Cell 19] [V/C Id: 2/ 7] : time: 00:02:47.24 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:17:40.29] [Frames: 139829] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no] Menu Language Units: 1 Language Menu Unit 1: [Japanese] Language Menu Unit 1: [Japanese] Menu 1: [Root-Menu] (entry PGC) (Programs: 2) (Cells: 2) (uses VOB-IDs: 1,2) Any ideas? I'm afraid to retry because Verbatim DL are quite expensive (1.99 euros), I have only 4 left and Singapore cakes are no longer available Thanks for your time. Edited February 5, 2008 by Black Hole
LIGHTNING UK! Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 Really, you want something as near to 50/50 as possible. What were the other choices?
Black Hole Posted February 5, 2008 Author Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) Really, you want something as near to 50/50 as possible. What were the other choices? Well, the original disc had that structure, and ImgBurn showed it with blue "Very Good" star. That's why I was asking you if it was out of specification for DVD Video recording standard ... Do you want to know something more strange? I'm having a lot of problems to read those 2 discs in my MSI 8216S PC IDE DVD reader and they are not recognized at all in both a common Pioneer DVD-115 reader and a Pioneer DVR-107D burner. Obviously there's something fishy in here, as I haven't had problems with 25 other DVD+R DL before. If I can provide you more info, don't hesitate to ask. Edited February 5, 2008 by Black Hole
LIGHTNING UK! Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 Scan the disc you burnt using DVDInfoPro or CDSpeed (PIPO / Disc Quality scan) and see how it comes out. Maybe you just had a duff one? The issue isn't so much with the split point (in PGC/Cell terms) as it is with the MMC specs saying that the most compatible burns are those were both layers are created equal sizes. EDIT: Put the original in and copy + paste the info from the panel on the right. The last few lines are the layer breakdowns.
Black Hole Posted February 5, 2008 Author Posted February 5, 2008 I don't know if these are good or not. I have only Nero 6.6: General Information Drive: BENQ DVD LS DW1655 Firmware: BCIB Disc: DVD+R DL (MKM 001) Selected speed: 8 X PI errors Maximum: 713 Average: 180.21 Total: 3752580 PI failures Maximum: 3 Average: 0.15 Total: 1030 PO failures: 0 Jitter Maximum: 12.5 % Average: 9.69 % Scanning Statistics Elapsed time: 11:10 Number of samples: 22395 Average scanning interval: 8.02 ECC Glitches removed: 0 By the way, I don't understand very well why ImgBurn shows four 50/50 break points with so much different time values. Why do you need to pad so many sectors in the first case? AFAIK is to have an equally layer size, but ImgBurn only seems to pad the first layer when it's smaller than the second layer. Why doesn't ImgBurn pad the second layer if that one is the smaller one? Should it? Thanks.
LIGHTNING UK! Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 The PIE levels on that disc are way out of spec, jitter is quite high too. Normally I'd look for PIE being under 40-80 on DL media and you want jitter under 10 really. You should download the latest cdspeed from http://www.cdspeed2000.com as that's what we're all using (along with DVDInfoPro). There is no such thing as a 'layer' until I create it so when you say the second one is smaller, it's only smaller if you pick the 70/30 one. It's padding so many sectors so that the cell in question is the midway point. i.e. if I have cells... 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 and I want cell 4 to be the layer break one (i.e. the 1st cell on the 2nd layer), I need to insert space (padding) before cell 1 so that [space] - 1 - 2 - 3 is the same size as 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8, because L0 must be the same size (or larger) than L1.
blutach Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 The real interesting thing is the big PIEs were on layer 0 and not layer 1. I'd say the disk is bad, despite it verifying OK. If it can't be recognised, it may be that the TOC is not being read correctly. As for the 50/50, this just leaves more unburned space on the edge of the disc, where problems are the highest. Regards
Black Hole Posted February 6, 2008 Author Posted February 6, 2008 (edited) The PI/PO graphic above was made at MAX speed (5x CAV = 5-12 Linear) with an old version of Nero DVD Speed. I downloaded the last version 4.7.7.15 and made a test at 1X speed and PI errors were below 8 all the time. The disc was perfect, but the structure was NOT. I have burned again with RecordNow 7.3 and it worked. However, the layer break was changed by the program itself, at 55/45 percentage level (VOB ID 1, Cell ID 11) and the IFO file changed without user intervention. If the original disc has a different layer break, and the same is suggested by ImgBurn, why didn't it work as expected with 70/30 ? The problem is not the disk being jerky at a certain point, or freezing in the layer jump. I think that not being read at all could be a problem in ImgBurn algorithms. Two high quality discs cannot fail in such a way, since the first was burning the ISO created by DVD Decrypter and the second one was building the files from the VIDEO_TS directory. Edited February 6, 2008 by Black Hole
LIGHTNING UK! Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 The disc not being read has NOTHING to do with the 'structure' (by which I assume you meant cell layout etc?). The drive doesn't know or care about that type of thing. Rememeber that the drive controls the quality etc, the program simply feeds it data. Burn one using a nearer 50/50 split and you might have more luck. 8x is fine for benq scanning... look in our media and testing forum, it's what we always use and our verbs don't scan anything like that.
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