Completely stumped

[PEB]

My Windows 10-based 64-bit system has a built-in TSSTcorp SH-S203P DVD read/write SCSI unit plus a USB connected standalone Freecom 20J6 DVD read/write unit (plus various disks, etc).

It is several months since I last used either unit but both had been working fine; I used them to create Windows repair disks, iso copies, file backups, etc using Imgburn 2.5.8.0.

However I now find that I can no longer read 'product' DVDs that have third party software on them (eg Aerosoft, Microsoft, etc) even though in the past I could.

But both devices can still read any CD or any 'non Product' DVD that I have created for storing files, etc.

In order to be sure that the 'product' DVDs were not at fault, I do have a 64-bit Windows 10 laptop and it reads the disks with no problems.The only obvious difference would appear to be that the version of driver 'cdrom.sys' on the laptop is 10.0.18362.1 whilst it is 10.0.19041.1 but both with the same date of 21/6/2006.

I believe that it is a system rather than hardware problem. I have not made any changes to Windows settings (that I am aware of) that would obviously affect the functioning of both drives.

What finally 'did it' for me was that just for the hell of it I thought I would use Imgburn to try to read a 'product' DVD - it worked perfectly and Imgburn 'sees' the DVD just as it should.

But unfortunately Windows itself still cannot!!

I would have assumed that Imgburn would use the 'standard' Windows drivers and so I expected that it also would be unable to read the 'product' DVDs. But clearly not.

I would really appreciate any ideas as to where I might look in Windows to try to resolve this because just now I am completely stumped and I really do need to be able to read the 'product' DVDs.

Thank you.

[Ch3vr0n]

Sounds to me your drive is faulty. You say it yourself that you used MULTIPLE different software products to read dvds. It's EXTREMELY unlikely that ALL of them break simultaneously while the drive itself would be fine. The opposite is a lot more likely, that the drive is faulty and the software isn't. The driver is a generic one they have changed since windows 7.

This isn't very likely an imgburn problem, to your drive is probably dead. As you mention yourself, it's been a while since you last used it

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[dbminter]

I would say the drive is probably not the problem because, from what I gathered from his post, File Explorer shows no inserted disc, but ImgBurn can read discs to image files fine.

 

Have you tried restarting the computer?  When I get a case where File Explorer fails to see inserted discs, a reboot usually fixes that.

 

And does File Explorer show any inserted disc and when you try clicking on it, File Explorer shows an empty directory?

[PEB]

Thanks for the responses. I was hoping to find out in detail how Imgburn is able to read the DVD and its contents whilst Windows 10 doesn't in the hope that I can find a way to make Windows 10 also read the DVD.  Even using Imgburn to create an ISO file of the DVD its contents still cannot be seen or file mounted from Windows Explorer. I am guessing that Imgburn must use different drivers.

I have checked and found that the main PC where the DVD contents cannot be read is 64 bit Windows 10 version 2004 from 26/6/20 ie more or less upto date.

The laptop we have is on 64 bit Windows 10 version 1909 from 5/8/19 (so a year out of date!) but it can read the DVD contents, mount the ISO version of it, etc as it should.

And after more investigation I believe that I might have identified that the root cause is that those DVDs that cannot be read on the main PC are in ISO9660 format and not in the more modern UDF which can be read.

So it looks like MS stopped supporting the ISO9660 format in the last year which fits with having read that MS is tending to no longer support optical drives because they are old hat apparently!

Anyway short of being able to get the latest versions of Windows 10 to 'see' the ISO9660 DVDs with different drivers and/or settings, I am hoping to be able to find some software that will be able to create an  ISO file in UDF format from the ISO9660 DVD ie a sort of file conversion.

I hope that the ISO can be mounted, etc.

[dbminter]

I can't see Microsoft dropping support for ISO9660.  It would pretty much kill backwards compatibility.  Plus, older install discs may be ISO9660 and not UDF.

 

I decided to create an ISO9660 image and burn it to a test DVD+RW to see if my Windows 10 2004 build can read it.  I burned it and was able to load a .LOG file and read it fine from the ISO9660 disc I created from an image I wrote in ImgBurn.  So, it's not that Microsoft removed ISO9660 backwards compatibility in Windows 10 2004.

 

[PEB]

Thanks very much for doing all that. I 'think' that I'm glad that it worked but now am more stumped than ever. Will continue to try today.

[PEB]

Thanks very much for doing all that. I 'think' that I'm glad that it worked but now am more stumped than ever. Will continue to try today.

Awake now. I have also created various CDs and DVDs and can read them ok. The DVDs I have a problem with are pre-recorded and I know that not too long ago there was no problem with them. So onwards ...

 

[dbminter]

When you say pre-recorded, do you mean pressed DVD's like movies you buy in a store or Amazon or do you mean discs you've already written yourself in a burner?

 

[PEB]

Hi

 

Sorry for the delay. The prerecorded are indeed 'pressed' DVDs. 

I have tried all sorts to be able to read them including restoring system images, etc. Windows says the drivers are up to date.  And the problem is on both a SCSI drive and a standalone USB connected drive but both use the same Windows 'cdrom.sys' driver. Yet Imgburn can read all discs including the 'problem' DVDs on both drives.

I have found that some pressed DVDs can be read by Windows but they are either in UDF format or apparently both have UDF AND Joliet formats. Any that don't have UDF ie are ISO9660 and Joliet format cannot be read.

They did  all work in the past (maybe a couple of months ago) and still work on a Laptop with a similar TSSTcorp drive BUT it has an earlier WIndows Build date.

Unfortunately I don't have any Disk Images from more than a month ago.

It is the fact that Imgburn can always read the disks that is frustrating - it must be using either different drivers or settings but even when Imgburn is present and reading the disks, Windows still cannot.

Apart it from being just wrong (which bugs me) I need to either have one of the pressed DVDs or an ISO of it in a drive in order to run X-Plane software so as far as I can see I HAVE to find a fix!! 

I really appreciate your help so far but I don't want to take up your time any further. I will get over this even if it means re-installing Windows which is extreme  but may be the only alternative.

Sorry for the ramblings - I suppose I am testing my own logic!!

[dbminter]

It must be some kind of Windows problem.  Maybe a configuration one.  If ImgBurn can read the discs to image files, then the problem lies with Windows itself.

 

When you first start ImgBurn, at the end of the log, there should be something that resembles this:

I 11:28:28 Initialising SPTI...
I 11:28:28 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...
I 11:28:28 -> Drive 1 - Info: ELBY CLONEDRIVE 1.4 (N:) (SCSI)
I 11:28:28 -> Drive 2 - Info: ELBY CLONEDRIVE 1.4 (L:) (SCSI)
I 11:28:28 -> Drive 3 - Info: ELBY CLONEDRIVE 1.4 (Q:) (SCSI)
I 11:28:28 Found 3 BD-ROM/HD DVD-ROMs!

 

What do you have for the Initialising line?  Do you have something other than SPTI?  SPTI is Microsoft's driver.  If you don't have that one enabled, that might explain while ImgBurn works and Windows isn't.  If you don't have SPTI and have something else, I wonder if changing the driver to SPTI would cause ImgBurn to fail to read discs.

[PEB]

Hi

I think I have discovered that the 'cdfs.sys' driver is not being run. This apparently allows support for reading ISO9660 & Joliet. The System Event Log shows an error with it not starting.

The files are present and the Registry settings are exactly the same as on the laptop which can read the dvds!

I thought that getting it to startup would be straightforward but not managed it yet. Still got a few things to try before it all goes out of the window.

I will also have a look at the Imgburn log file because may well be a part of the problem and could explain why Imgburn works every time.

What I really don't understand how this problem has arisen at all because the system has been stable for quite a while other than Windows updates!

Thanks again for your help.

[dbminter]

The very nature of the beast that is Windows means you can just be sitting there and something goes wrong in the background.  Often times, you will never notice one of these failures until you actually encounter it.  Meaning, you won't know how long its been there.  So your images, depending on your schedule, may have backed up these changes without your knowing it.

 

If you have to do the drastic thing and reinstall Windows, do what I do.  After you've reinstalled it and every piece of software and made all your configuration changes, take an image of Windows.  This way, you may not need to reinstall everything if something like this happens again.  You can just restore this, what I call Basic Systems Re-Installs Image, and you can just update it with new software updates and installations and configuration changes.  Since you said you do take system images, might as well take advantage of doing so so you won't have to reinstall everything again.

[PEB]

I agree about the Images. I do them v regularly but sods law was that because I didn't see this problem until this week, I didn't have an Image that was before the issue arose ie one where the DVD problem didn't occur. As it turns out I was doing them too often!

But in future I will keep one Image safe and do others as and when.

Thanks

[dbminter]

I'm rather paranoid in my imaging schedule.  An image is done every day at 9:45 AM, one image set for each of all the 7 days of the week.  Then, a Weekly image is done, 4 of those on Day 7, 14, 21, and 28.  Then there are the 12 Monthly images done on Day 1 of each month.  Each of those Monthly images is then copied as a backup to a USB SSD.  Then, on Day 1 in January, the Yearly image is done, which is also copied to a USB SSD as well as a flash drive.  That way, I have a fairly decent range of times I can restore back to without losing too much info.

 

Then, twice a year, with the new Windows 10 Refreshes, I restore down Basic Systems Re-Installs, update Windows 10 to the latest version, update all software from my TO-DO.TXT file, install any new software, and make any configuration changes.  Then, I make a new Basic Systems Re-Installs image, copying the old one to an archive folder on a USB SSD.

 

When I get a new computer, the first thing I do before starting Windows for the first time is to boot my Macrium Reflect Rescue Media on it and image the entire PC drive(s) contents.  That way, I've got a factory default image.  Then, my comprehensive INSTALL.TXT file tells me what to install when and how to configure it.  At approximately 15 different places along the way, temporary Re-Installs images are done.  This way, if I later discover a problem occurred between X steps, I can restore back to X, fix the problem, and continue on with the set up.

[PEB]

That's not paranoid - it is impressive.

I thought I was pretty thorough but your method is first class. I may well 'borrow' some it.

Will let you know how I get on with the DVDs

[dbminter]

If you are going to use my method, you'll probably need a USB HDD.  I have 4.6 TB of Reflect backups.  That was probably why I needed GPT.  To format a partition larger than 4 TB just for Reflect backups.

 

[PEB]

Well after several hours trying to get 'cdfs' to start plus trying to find something(!) in Windows to repair and make the drives behave, I have more or less given up at least for now. In typical Windows behaviour, when I try to create a Service using 'cdfs.sys' it tells me that it already exists. If I try to start it it tells me that the Service doesn't exist.

I have found a way to get UFD format ISO files onto the main PC using the laptop so at least XPlane is ok now.

Will probably resume trying the beat Windows into submission in a little while.

But thanks for your help and suggestions.

PS Imgburn log does show that it Initialises SPTI and finds all the drives.

[dbminter]

Hm, unfortunately, it saying SPTI is really less helpful than it seems on the surface.  I was hoping it was saying something other than that to explain how ImgBurn can read the discs.  I would have hoped that enabling SPTI would fail to read discs in ImgBurn, but one of the other interfaces like ElbyCDIO was working.

 

[LIGHTNING UK!]

It might be worth trying something like the DMA fix from the FAQ.

Uninstall the controller from within device manager and reboot so it finds it all again. If you haven’t already tried all that of course

[PEB]

Hi

No I haven't tried that but may well give it a go.

I found that certain relevant files are different on the laptop which can read the dvds. I tried to replace those files on the pc but despite getting over the Trusted Installer issue it failed due to some id (can't remember exactly which) so gave up. As long as I have the laptop I will be ok if I need to read older format prerecorded dvds.