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UDF BDR created. Now Windows won't read it back. Bad batch of discs, or an error on my part?


Bassthang
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I've used IMGBurn for years to write archive discs - mostly of my music files (multi-track projects in Pro Tools and Cubase, WAVs and MP3s). It's rarely caused any problems (apart from understanding how to do certain things in IMGBurn).
I've used Verbatim BDRs consistently for many years.
I recently ordered a new cake of Verbatim Datalife BDRs and used some to burn discs of some music projects (files only) on my WinXP PC. No problems.
Then I moved to my Win10 laptop and did a BDR of some large video files. (I don't normally do this - I just copy my video files to a HDD. But I thought while I had the writer out I should give it a try.)
One file was >4GB so I was prompted to use UDF format. I found that option and set it up. IMGBurn also kept telling me that it wanted to change the format as it detected a video file in the root, so to ensure it just did a file backup I put all the files into a folder, so nothing was loose in the root. It's supposed to be a backup disc, not a playable disc.
The job ran and completed successfully. However, Win10 wouldn't read back the disc. I was surprised, as I can't really recall the last time I had a disc fail that wasn't due to something I did wrong.
Both machines used the same USB laptop-style Samsung Blu-ray writer (which is the best media writer I've ever used).
ALL the discs I've written from this new pack are a bit weird - I can see dark rings on the disc surfaces which look to me like some sort of write failure (not merely where the write ended - all discs were pretty much full). Photos attached of the bad disc and one of the "good" discs - all from the same batch. I don't see these rings on discs made using previous batches of Verbatim BDR.
 

The possibilities are:
1) I haven't correctly used IMGBurn for this format of disc (likely).
2) Windows10 has problems with reading UDF discs (I haven't yet tried it on other machines: I have WinXP, Win7, and Linux PCs to try it with, and I can borrow a Mac)
3) The new Verbatim discs are a bad batch, but the problems are only showing up (so far. . .) on the UDF formatted job.
4) Those "W 23:23:04 Device Arrival Detected!" lines in the log look like the connection to the USB drive might have been intermittent? I''d have expected this to kill the ongoing job though. . .

I really hope it's not (3)!!!! I've just spotted a thread in this forum saying that Verbatim sold their process to another company that already has a reputation for producing poor quality discs. I'm not too bothered about the video files (although a bit annoyed that for the first time in ages I've ended up with a coaster), but I'm starting to worry about the long-term reliability of the music project discs.

If the Verbatim discs are now poor quality, which brand of discs do forum members recommend? I can't afford to buy MDISC!

Log file of the failed job (note that the job itself was successful):

; //****************************************\\
;   ImgBurn Version 2.5.8.0 - Log
;   Saturday, 09 April 2022, 23:34:40
; \\****************************************//
;
;
I 22:58:41 ImgBurn Version 2.5.8.0 started!
I 22:58:41 Microsoft Windows 8 Core x64 Edition (6.2, Build 9200)
I 22:58:41 Total Physical Memory: 4,057,340 KiB  -  Available: 653,060 KiB
I 22:58:41 Initialising SPTI...
I 22:58:41 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...
I 22:58:44 -> Drive 1 - Info: TSSTcorp BDDVDW SE-506CB TS01 (D:) (USB 2.0)
I 22:58:44 Found 1 BD-RE XL!
I 23:02:07 Operation Started!
I 23:02:07 Building Image Tree...
I 23:02:07 Checking Directory Depth...
I 23:02:07 Calculating Totals...
I 23:02:07 Preparing Image...
E 23:02:07 File size exceeds the limit imposed by the ISO9660 file system.
E 23:02:07 Name: [filename removed from log]
E 23:02:07 Size: 4,528,493,937 bytes
E 23:02:20 Operation Failed! - Duration: 00:00:13
I 23:02:39 Operation Started!
I 23:02:39 Building Image Tree...
I 23:02:39 Calculating Totals...
I 23:02:39 Preparing Image...
I 23:02:39 Contents: 7 Files, 1 Folder
I 23:02:39 Content Type: Data
I 23:02:39 Data Type: MODE1/2048
I 23:02:39 File System(s): UDF (1.02)
I 23:02:39 Volume Label: [Not Configured]
I 23:02:39 Size: 24,837,447,428 bytes
I 23:02:39 Sectors: 12,127,663
I 23:02:39 Image Size: 24,838,012,928 bytes
I 23:02:39 Image Sectors: 12,127,936
I 23:02:39 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:00:00
I 23:02:45 Operation Started!
I 23:02:45 Building Image Tree...
I 23:03:01 Calculating Totals...
I 23:03:01 Preparing Image...
I 23:03:01 Contents: 7 Files, 1 Folder
I 23:03:01 Content Type: Data
I 23:03:01 Data Type: MODE1/2048
I 23:03:01 File System(s): UDF (1.02)
I 23:03:01 Volume Label: Films and TV 1
I 23:03:01 Size: 24,837,447,428 bytes
I 23:03:01 Sectors: 12,127,663
I 23:03:01 Image Size: 24,838,012,928 bytes
I 23:03:01 Image Sectors: 12,127,936
I 23:03:08 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:00:23
I 23:03:08 Operation Started!
I 23:03:08 Source File: -==/\/[BUILD IMAGE]\/\==-
I 23:03:08 Source File Sectors: 12,127,936 (MODE1/2048)
I 23:03:08 Source File Size: 24,838,012,928 bytes
I 23:03:08 Source File Volume Identifier: Films and TV 1
I 23:03:08 Source File Volume Set Identifier: 5489B85600B90EBD
I 23:03:08 Source File Application Identifier: ImgBurn v2.5.8.0
I 23:03:08 Source File Implementation Identifier: ImgBurn
I 23:03:08 Source File File System(s): UDF (1.02)
I 23:03:08 Destination Device: [0:0:0] TSSTcorp BDDVDW SE-506CB TS01 (D:) (USB)
I 23:03:08 Destination Media Type: BD-R (Disc ID: CMCMAG-BA5-000)
I 23:03:08 Destination Media Supported Write Speeds: 2x, 4x, 6x
I 23:03:08 Destination Media Sectors: 12,219,392
I 23:03:08 Write Mode: BD
I 23:03:08 Write Type: DAO
I 23:03:08 Write Speed: 2x
I 23:03:08 Hardware Defect Management Active: No
I 23:03:08 BD-R Verify Not Required: Yes
I 23:03:08 Link Size: Auto
I 23:03:08 Lock Volume: Yes
I 23:03:08 Test Mode: No
I 23:03:08 OPC: No
I 23:03:08 BURN-Proof: Enabled
I 23:03:08 Write Speed Successfully Set! - Effective: 8,992 KB/s (2x)
I 23:04:08 Filling Buffer... (80 MiB)
I 23:04:11 Writing LeadIn...
I 23:04:30 Writing Session 1 of 1... (1 Track, LBA: 0 - 12127935)
I 23:04:30 Writing Track 1 of 1... (MODE1/2048, LBA: 0 - 12127935)
W 23:23:04 Device Arrival Detected!
W 23:23:04 The device list will be refreshed at the next available opportunity.
W 23:23:47 Device Arrival Detected!
W 23:23:47 The device list will be refreshed at the next available opportunity.
I 23:30:10 Synchronising Cache...
I 23:30:19 Closing Track...
I 23:30:20 Finalising Disc...
I 23:31:39 Exporting Graph Data...
I 23:31:40 Graph Data File: C:\Users\[username removed from log]\AppData\Roaming\ImgBurn\Graph Data Files\TSSTcorp_BDDVDW_SE-506CB_TS01_09-APRIL-2022_23-03_CMCMAG-BA5-000_2x.ibg
I 23:31:40 Export Successfully Completed!
I 23:31:40 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:28:31
I 23:31:40 Average Write Rate: 15,760 KiB/s (3.6x) - Maximum Write Rate: 26,946 KiB/s (6.1x)
I 23:31:43 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...
I 23:31:49 -> Drive 1 - Info: TSSTcorp BDDVDW SE-506CB TS01 (D:) (USB 2.0)
I 23:31:49 Found 1 BD-RE XL!
I 23:34:38 Close Request Acknowledged
I 23:34:38 Closing Down...
I 23:34:38 Shutting down SPTI...
I 23:34:39 ImgBurn closed!

IMG_20220410_093515_suspect Verbatim BDR_successful write.jpg

IMG_20220410_093458_suspect Verbatim BDR_UDF format.jpg

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You could try inserting one of these failed burns and doing a manual Verify.  You probably can't Verify against the image file contents as you most likely don't have the image file anymore, so the Verify isn't as thorough, but it might return an error message that may be helpful here.

 

This could be your problem:

I 23:03:08 Destination Media Type: BD-R (Disc ID: CMCMAG-BA5-000)

 

You talked about Verbatim being bought up by they who shall not be named.  They are CMC Magnetics, which makes the worst optical discs out there.  So, you do have the bad discs.  However, depending on where you live in the world, BD-R from Verbatim may only be CMC.  In the US, BD-R is VERBAT-IM, so it's made by Verbatim and I've rarely had a failure with those that wasn't the result of a drive needing replacing.  Unfortunately, I can't think of anyone else who doesn't use CMC for their BD-R.  Verbatim uses both their own manufacturing process and CMC.  But, they've done that for years on CD and DVD media, too.

 

What country do you live in?

 

Those rings in the recording surface were actually fairly common in my older days of burning BD-R.  I don't know why they're there, but they apparently didn't affect the quality of the discs.  The burns with those rings in them passed Verifies and, 5 or 6 years later, the contents were still readable.

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Thanks for the quick response, dbminter. Much appreciated. Sorry for the delay in replying, but it's been a rollercoaster few days here, and I'm just catching up on things. . .
That's reassuring about those rings. I've never seen those before (on Verbatim or other media), so I was worried for a while.

I'm in England. I used to buy my BDRs from Scan, but I bought this last cake from Amazon to save a bit of money (free delivery).

If CMC make the worst optical discs out there, then that implies there are better discs to be had. Which manufacturers do people on this forum recommend?
Or is it a case of sticking with Verbatim and checking very carefully that they are home-grown Verbatim discs rather than outsourced CMC discs? Perhaps order them from a supplier in the USA?
Sorry if I've misunderstood, but I'm still getting to grips with this very unclear situation.

This is rather like the situation I remember a couple of years ago, when I was getting concerned about whether the current Verbatim discs were HTL or LTH (as I'd heard that some were HTL and others LTH - and there being almost no way of knowing) and writing to Verbatim's support to ask the question. I was reassured that all their discs now used the inorganic HTL. I thought that from then on I could relax and just re-order Verbatim discs in future. I never thought that they'd flog the whole system off to another (lower-quality) supplier.

How on earth did it come to this? What do IT professionals use these days for their archiving? (I used to be an IT support person, but left the industry in 2010, so I'm mostly out of touch.) I suppose it would have to be M-disc. I might resort to buying some of these for the most important files (recording session multi-track backups, which these days can run into tens of GB per song).

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The rings are only "good" on BD-R.  Any rings that would show up on organic dye discs would result in data read errors.

 

Unfortunately, it's the nature of the beast.  In North America, Verbatim makes the good BD-R.  It seems in other parts of the world, Verbatim uses CMC for their BD-R.  There really are no other options.  All the other manufacturers of BD-R, to my knowledge, use CMC because they're cheap, but they can charge "quality" level prices for their good names on the labels.  To be honest, I'm surprised Verbatim still makes their own quality stuff or uses Mitsubishi for their good CD and DVD discs.  I would have thought with CMC at the helm, they'd have shelved all the quality discs and just slapped Verbatim's good DataLife Plus name on their CMC junk.

 

You could try importing good Verbatim BD-R from North America.  To my knowledge, all Verbatim BD-R sold in North America is VERBAT-IM, and not CMC.  Of course, that's more expensive and it's not guaranteed to solve your problem.

 

Also be aware since I'm in North America, my perspective is almost entirely limited to this continent.  Other parts of the world may have better options that I'm not aware of.

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  • 2 months later...

Update. . .
I've been off doing other things for a while, but tonight I got back onto burning BDRs. Same cake of discs. So far, awful results! However, I'm not 100% sure it's just a bad batch of discs.
Because of the nature of the files, this next disc had to be UDF. Partway through writing the disc, it all went quiet. I checked IMGBURN and saw a report at the foot of the screen about waiting for the HDD threshold. Sure enough, Windows Task Manager showed 100% HDD activity, with "System" being at the top.
I killed some update processes (which shouldn't even be running, as I opted to stop updates for a few weeks), and the HDD went down to a decent level. IMGBURN kicked back into life again. This happened a few times during a very long write process.
The Verify process was also slow, and about 1/4 way through started producing read errors. Although IMGBURN offers to ignore the errors after a while, there were so many (>138 so far - it's still running. . .) that the verify process may take hours. I'll probably just give up. Looks like I've got a coaster. . .

Some background: this is a Dell Inspiron laptop which came with Win10, which has given me some grief for quite a while. It was great when I first had it, but a couple of Windows updates along, it went very slow. It had a complete wipe and clean re-install which seemed to help for a bit, but a few months after that it was slow again. Worse than that, it often just locks up with 100% HDD, often with Win update processes hogging it all, or sometimes just System. Sometimes the machine runs well. But - usually at weekends - it goes into this spiral of degrading performance, eventually becoming useless for a few hours while it's doing "something". I have to go off and do something else until it feels like working for me again. I used to blame MS for their rubbish OS, but I have an older (also Dell) laptop that runs Win10 perfectly well. So I'm guessing that Dell have just built a lemon this time round.

BUT on the other hand, this is the same machine, same USB drive and the same IMGBURN that quite happily burned scores of BDRs for me a couple of years ago, so maybe it is just poor quality discs. I think I'll fire off a complaint to Verbatim - what's the point of even selling these discs if more than half of them are not going to work?

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I would still say the problem is the CMC Mag discs.  However, in Europe, Verbatim BD-R may only be available that way.  Here in the States, Verbatim BD-R is of good quality with an MID of VERBAT-IM.

 

You're also using a TSST drive, which have been known to be problematic.  Particularly if it's a slim model.  But, that doesn't explain how you said the drive had been working with these discs before years ago.  That indicates the drive is the problem.  And that it may have reached the end of its life.

 

You could try getting an external BD drive and see if you have better results.  Particularly a half height model and not a slim one.  Conversely, buy an internal half height BD burner and put it in a USB 3.0 enclosure like either of VanTech's 1st or 2nd generation models or an Other World Computing one.  I use the LG WH16NS60 and VanTech.  Both 1st and 2nd generation work, although with the 2nd generation, you cannot update the firmware of an NS60 with it.  It stops attempting to flash at 0% because it never finds it after detecting it.  Putting it in a 1st generation VanTech enclosure works.  OWN's unit works, but if you power off the enclosure, you MUST restart Windows before it's detected again on power back on.  It does this with NS60 but not Pioneer 212 units.

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Thanks for the suggestions. I hope it's not the drive! This has been the most reliable writer I've ever had. It's a USB-connected Samsung SE-506. What I like about it is that, being a slimline drive, it doesn't suffer from that problem where the magnets that clamp the disc in place change strength with time, rendering the whole unit useless. The disc is simply held by some spring-loaded bearings. Or is that issue a thing of the past now? From your post, it would seem that there are problems with just about every system. This is an awful state of affairs.

You mention updating firmware. Is this something that needs to be done when new discs come to market, or just when new features are available? I vaguely recall seeing mentions somewhere of having to update drives to use different media. Perhaps that's what my problem is. After all, these are different and newer discs to those that the drive worked well with.

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This is actually the first I've ever heard of magnets being used to hold discs in place.  And I have to tend to doubt it because if it's an internal drive, I'd have to say magnets in an optical disc drive might interfere with the HDD, particularly in a laptop.  As far as I know, every slim model I've ever used has had spring mechanisms in it.

 

Firmware updates do tend to do things like add support for newer discs, but also better reliability for certain older discs, too.  Plus, manufacturing processes can change on media, resulting in discs no longer working.  That's what happened to the NS60 and the MCC DVD-R.  Firmware 1.02 no longer supported them, but the 1.03 update did.  You can check for a firmware update, but if it's external, you most likely won't find an update and even if you did, it probably wouldn't help in this case.

 

How old is this Samsung drive?  If you've been using it for years, it most likely just gave up the ghost.  BD burners have 2 lasers in them: one for CD/DVD and one for BD.  So, that effectively doubles the likelihood of something going wrong versus a DVD burner.  That's why BD burners don't last as long as DVD ones used to.

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Full-size internal CD, DVD and bluray drives with trays used to clamp the disc. The clamps had magnets to hold them together. There used to be lots of problems with the strength of those magnets varying over time (I think they often became stronger) and the drives not holding (or not releasing) the discs and jamming up. I can't find anything online about this now, but a few years ago it was definitely a thing. You could find articles explaining how to put small shims inside to increase the gap and reduce the magnet's effect. I remember doing it a couple of times, but it only worked for a while. Odd that I can't find those articles now!

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This is the nearest I can find to the issues I remember:
https://www.electronicspoint.com/forums/threads/cd-r-w-drive-spindle-clamp-magnet-catastrophic-failure.61054/

I've also been onto Samsung's support pages and got the address for their optical drive support dept. (I had to ask a chat operator). I'll see what they have to say about firmware.

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CD-RW drives may have had those magnets.  I only ever had the one CD-R drive back in either 2000 or 2001.  Starting in 2002, I've had nothing but DVD and BD drives.

 

You can check for firmware updates in Write mode by right clicking on the drive in the left hand pane and choosing the item near the bottom about firmware updates.

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There is one flaw with that feature.  It opens a web page for firmwarehq but that site doesn't have all the latest firmware updates.  For instance, 1.03 of LG WH16NS60 is not on that site; you have to get it from LG's site.

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I had no luck finding firmware (or any support for my device) on Samsung's sites. But I did get an email address that may get me what I need eventually.

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To be honest, you probably won't find a firmware update for an external device.  For whatever reason, manufacturers don't like to release firmware updates for external devices.  My theory, cynical as it is, is if they only release new firmware on new devices, it serves as an enticement to dump your old hardware and buy their latest one.

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Strange that you couldn't find a firmware update on firmwarehq, because there is one there:

https://www.firmwarehq.com/Samsung/SE-506CB/files.html

 

TS02 does appear to be the last firmware released for it that consumers can download.  Doesn't mean it's the latest, though.  For instance, 1.02 of the LG WH16NS60 is not available for downloading off of LG's site.  Only 1.01 and 1.03.  1.02 could only be had as a base firmware installed at the factory.

 

To be honest, I doubt it will help you.  The issue doesn't appear to be firmware based as you would most likely have experienced problems with the drive from the very beginning.

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