The road to version 3 of ImgBurn

[pdavit]

New here although not new to ImgBurn.

 

I've seen in the official site that the author of the tool mentioned the latest version is the last maintenance and there is a plan for a new one. Any news on that? What's new planned for this version?

 

Can we see a CD/DVD disk copy feature on the fly?

 

Is it also possible to erase rewritten media?

 

ImgBurn is perfect but in my opinion its power is hidden under its GUI. It's like you have to be the developer in order to know what each little button and element does. I suggest for the new version a revamped GUI where buttons apart from tooltips can also have labels. I only recently realised also that ImgBurn can actually create Video DVDs and can also convert compressed audio files into audio CDs. So, practically nothing's missing from the big rivals (and I'm not referring to MagicISO or PowerISO but even Nero since ImgBurn is a complete burning solution now and not just an image burning tool), other than the fact that it's not always obvious what ImgBurn can do.

 

Why lose potential users by hiding ImgBurn's abilities? The Ez-Mode was a first step. Make the change for the rest of the tool.

 

Thank you for your time.

Edited August 22, 2008 by pdavit

[blutach]

Interesting first post and welcome to our forum.

 

I know it isn't always intuitive what ImgBurn can do - there are several detailed guides in the guides forum, accessible from the help menu, including 2 extremely detailed guide on the settings and the functions.

 

Since there is no context sensitive help file (maybe someone can write one, if they are so inclined), these guides should serve as our users' first port of call.

 

And there is an erase RW function built in - see the Tools - Drive - Erase Disc menu.

 

Regards

[pdavit]

And there is an erase RW function built in - see the Tools - Drive - Erase Disc menu.

 

See?! Another "hidden" option. The Drive menu option is deactivated from the initial Ez-Mode menu (by the way what kind of mode name is that! Let's make thinks simple and obvious in the future). You have to make an option first to activate it. We could have easily have an option in the initial screen. None of the initial options is related to erasing but the option is there once one is selected. Weird isn't it?

 

And "Create CD CUE file" in order to create compressed audio files to CD audio?! Seriously, there's a problem with terminology here. I feel like using a complex German machinery or something! ;-)

 

Don't misunderstand my tone. I love this tool that's why I'm a little bit harsh on it since I care about it and its popularity. Let's make things simple, intuitive and obvious. On aspects like features, completeness, speed and reliability ImgBurn has already achieved perfection. The rest are far from perfect.

 

Thanks also for the kind words and for the warm welcome.

 

PS: That two well written pdf guides you pointed out can easily be ported in a chm file and accessible from the tool itself as a help file in the future.

 

Take care.

Edited August 23, 2008 by pdavit

[LIGHTNING UK!]

'Ez-Mode Picker' is exactly what it says, it's an easy way for the (less clued up) user to pick the correct 'Mode'.

 

There is no 'Erase' mode, hence why it's not on the Ez-Mode Picker screen.

There isn't an active drive when you're on the Ez-Mode Picker screen, hence why 'Erase' isn't (and all the other drive related options aren't) available.

 

Audio support comes from CUE file support, there is no 'Mode' for making an audio disc... in time that'll no doubt change but I wanted to keep things as simple for me as possible until I was happy with how the internal code was working.

 

Creating an audio disc is a 2 part process. First you must create a CUE file, then you load the CUE file in Write mode. So everything is just fine as it is.

[pdavit]

'Ez-Mode Picker' is exactly what it says, it's an easy way for the (less clued up) user to pick the correct 'Mode'.

 

Yes, but after a detailed search in the dictionary I couldn't find what Ez means. Well, I'm joking but you get the idea.

 

There is no 'Erase' mode, hence why it's not on the Ez-Mode Picker screen.

 

The are 5 modes and 6 options in the initial screen. So, I guess we could also have an Erase option (not mode).

 

... in time that'll no doubt change but I wanted to keep things as simple of me as possible until I was happy with how the internal code was working.

 

A good approach IMHO. As long as the change comes some day. ;-)

Edited August 23, 2008 by pdavit

[LIGHTNING UK!]

The are 5 modes and 6 options in the initial screen. So, I guess we could also have an Erase option (not mode).

 

No, we really couldn't! Erase works with the drive currently selected in whatever mode you're in - and once again, there is no active drive in the Ez-Mode Picker screen. It wouldn't make sense to randomly select a mode and automate a click on the 'Erase' button (bottom left of the 'Destination' device box) because you might not have the right drive selected.

 

As for there being 6 options and 5 mode, well 2 of them are both 'Build' mode but with a different 'Output' mode set. (Device / Image File)

[pdavit]

No, we really couldn't! Erase works with the drive currently selected in whatever mode you're in - and once again, there is no active drive in the Ez-Mode Picker screen. It wouldn't make sense to randomly select a mode and automate a click on the 'Erase' button (bottom left of the 'Destination' device box) because you might not have the right drive selected.

 

You are right. But there is a workaround. Presumably we did have an Erase option the software could prompt the user to choose the drive. Isn't it an oxymoron to select let's say a burning mode only to get to the point where drive selection is possible and then instead of burning do an erasing?

 

Anyway, since there are plans for a new version these issues can be addressed. While on the issue, is there a beta phase? Is it public to forum users? How does this work? Can we contribute?

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Yes of course it's a bit daft having it that way but then the program erases automatically before you burn so why bother with it at all?

 

The erase function needs it's own 'mode' just as much as the 'audio cd' one does... but that'll only happen when I feel like doing it.

 

Yes there's a (long) beta phase and no it's not public.

[nonono]

'Ez-Mode Picker' is exactly what it says, it's an easy way for the (less clued up) user to pick the correct 'Mode'.

 

There is no 'Erase' mode, hence why it's not on the Ez-Mode Picker screen.

There isn't an active drive when you're on the Ez-Mode Picker screen, hence why 'Erase' isn't (and all the other drive related options aren't) available.

 

Audio support comes from CUE file support, there is no 'Mode' for making an audio disc... in time that'll no doubt change but I wanted to keep things as simple for me as possible until I was happy with how the internal code was working.

 

Creating an audio disc is a 2 part process. First you must create a CUE file, then you load the CUE file in Write mode. So everything is just fine as it is.

 

Actually, its a two part process for the program, it should not be for the user. The interface should be designed from a user's point of view, not the developers. The user views task as the goal to achieve and the steps needed to achieve that goal. For example; Make an audio disk from compressed audio files. Steps to achieve this: select the compressed audio files, select the drive and click the burn button. I'm willing to help out if you need help reviewing the interface for future version, just send me an email.

[lfcrule1972]

Mmmm I suspect your forum name sums up a lot of feelings in the forum here today

 

You seem to be quite obsessed with the Erase function, you do know (as the boss has already said) that the program will erase RW discs when the user starts the program ? Why have a button for something that is automatic......

 

I realise you want to tailor the program to your requirements but you have to remember that thousands of users don't require these changes, they are not requesting them, many have grown up with ImgBurn's predecessor and also ImgBurn and won't feel these changes are needed......

 

In the end of course it's Lightning UK!'s program and whilst constructive comments are welcomed you have to understand that sometimes the answers will be 'no'.

 

Regards

[dontasciime]

In the end of course it's Lightning UK!'s program and whilst constructive comments are welcomed you have to understand that sometimes the answers will be 'no'.

 

 

you mean nonono

[LIGHTNING UK!]

nonono,

 

You missed something important here...

 

Audio support comes from CUE file support, there is no 'Mode' for making an audio disc... in time that'll no doubt change but I wanted to keep things as simple for me as possible until I was happy with how the internal code was working.

 

The audio support added in the previous wasn't meant for burning your own collection of audio files (contrary to popular belief, I'm not stupid and I realise that function needs a simple interface), it was meant for burning disc images from BIN/CUE files.

[nonono]

Mmmm I suspect your forum name sums up a lot of feelings in the forum here today

 

You seem to be quite obsessed with the Erase function, you do know (as the boss has already said) that the program will erase RW discs when the user starts the program ? Why have a button for something that is automatic......

 

I realise you want to tailor the program to your requirements but you have to remember that thousands of users don't require these changes, they are not requesting them, many have grown up with ImgBurn's predecessor and also ImgBurn and won't feel these changes are needed......

 

In the end of course it's Lightning UK!'s program and whilst constructive comments are welcomed you have to understand that sometimes the answers will be 'no'.

 

Regards

 

I think pdavid's topic contains the same points as the topic I opened a few days ago. The reason I think the user interface should be simplified is because a lot of tasks aren't obvious without learning them. How should I have known that the disk will be erased before I burn my file compilation? I guess I should have read the guide; but should users really have to read a guide to use and understand such a simple program as ImgBurn?

 

I think Lightning UK! is an excellent programmer, with the right programmer mindset. However, the programmer mindset effects the interface design in many ways. For example, the Build, Write, etc modes; I can only guess that the program internally is separated in these components. Such a separation on the interface level doesn't make that much sense however, as users look at the goal to achieve and the steps needed. From a users point of view it doesn't make any sense that they can switch from 'write files to disk' to 'write files to image' with the click of a button. While this is probably there because both modes share the same input and the output format can be easily changed. Another example is the use of tiny icons with tooltips for each action. A new user does not know what each button does. While an experienced user builds up an image / action association list, new users have to learn this before they can use the program. A simple button named 'Add File' is a lot clearer than a tiny icon with a file depicted. I can only guess that the author chose to use tiny icons because he associates it with an efficient layout; this might not be the case as I stated above.

 

Please don't interpret my comments on ImgBurn as a flame of some sort. I'm just being a bit critical as constructive critisism can help improve the program. It's not a bad thing to let someone who has no experience with the interface take a look and see if the interface is really that obvious. If you are a long time user it's often hard to see how the interface can improve, as you are used to the current layout. My offer to lighting UK for feedback on a future program GUI still stands, but only if he values it.

[dontasciime]

Where did you how did you learn to use a computer ?

[nonono]

Where did you how did you learn to use a computer ?

 

I don't understand why you view my constructive critisism as hostile. For example, wouldn't you agree that a simple button with the text 'Add file' is easier and more intuitive than the tiny icons on the ImgBurn interface? I can't know the meaning of a specific icon without hovering over that icon. If I'm looking for a certain function (say erase a disk), I'll have to go over each icon until I find the one I'm looking for. If I can just scan the interface and click the button 'Erase disk', that would be a lot easier.

Edited September 16, 2008 by nonono

[LOCOENG]

I think you are missing donta's point, he wasn't taking the piss but rather asking how you got to where you are now as in what was your learning process with computers. I doubt he was suggesting you learned to drive at Sears. When has anyone said you were hostile? You just seem to persist even after you've been give your answer.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Yes, buttons with words on are great the first time you use a program but after that it's info you really don't need and you'll probably wish there was more room for other stuff.

 

I can tell you right now that I won't be changing my little icons, I like them

[nonono]

I think you are missing donta's point, he wasn't taking the piss but rather asking how you got to where you are now as in what was your learning process with computers. I doubt he was suggesting you learned to drive at Sears. When has anyone said you were hostile? You just seem to persist even after you've been give your answer.

 

The reason I 'persist' is that I'm participating in a discussion; a discussion about the merits of my proposals. I would think this discussion has merit as it can only improve feedback to the developer of ImgBurn. Instead of others discussing the actual proposals, a lot of comments (here and in the other topic) claim that this is not what 'others' want and that I'm just making suggestions for my own benefit. If so, you could at least say WHY my suggestions would not benefit the average user and actualy discuss the items.

 

I percieved the attitude of some as hostile as they do not want to participate in discussion. They merely state that my proposals have no merit (without real argumentation) and then think I should bugger off (as do you).

[nonono]

Yes, buttons with words on are great the first time you use a program but after that it's info you really don't need and you'll probably wish there was more room for other stuff.

 

I can tell you right now that I won't be changing my little icons, I like them

 

A real response, great! I think the room for other stuff is not a good argument for using tiny icons. ImgBurn could use my whole screen if it would make using the program more intuitive and easy to use. Some of the icons are really hard to interpret, for example the load / eject icons. Consider a dynamic linklabel ('load' / 'eject' based on the state of the disk drive), wouldn't you think that is more obvious? Also the wide screen mode, why is it necessary? Isn't it a basic function of the program to select and manage the files you want to burn to your disk? Why not make the input window wider and remove the 'large screen' mode?

 

From experience (and the other user as well), I can tell you that the erase disk feature is very hiden (it's hard to identify the icon). If the user inserts a rewritable media in their disk drive, why not display the following text above the Source section: "Warning: The disk will automatically be formatted before burn." (+ an optional linklabel to show the content of the disk in windows explorer). It would make the erase icon obsolete. The Display Graph Data using DVDInfoPro is really an advanced option and should be in the menu bar only I would say.

 

This would already strip 5 icons from the interface and improve it a great deal.

[LOCOENG]

They merely state that my proposals have no merit (without real argumentation) and then think I should bugger off (as do you).

 

 

I'm glad you can sense my attitude based on what is coming from my keyboard...if you are telepathic, then perhaps you should pursue a different line of work:) Seems like a one sided discussion to me...your way or the highway. Anywho, the boss has given the answer take it how you like, but no one has asked you to bugger off yet.

[nonono]

They merely state that my proposals have no merit (without real argumentation) and then think I should bugger off (as do you).

 

 

I'm glad you can sense my attitude based on what is coming from my keyboard...if you are telepathic, then perhaps you should pursue a different line of work:) Seems like a one sided discussion to me...your way or the highway. Anywho, the boss has given the answer take it how you like, but no one has asked you to bugger off yet.

 

I'm sorry, but this is yet another evasion of discussion. If you tell me "You just seem to persist even after you've been give your answer.", I interpret that as that you think discussion is closed after someone has 'countered' my arguments. Even if Lightning UK states that he won't implement a certain proposal, it can still be beneficial to discuss something further. He could change his mind based on the ARGUMENTS used in the discussion, or keep the discussion in mind when he feels the need to introduce tiny icons in the future. He could even participate in the discussion himself and convince me or be convinced. There is no harm in discussing something, I don't understand why you think it's bad if I persist trying to discuss these items.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Why not make the input window wider and remove the 'large screen' mode?

 

Oh if only things were as simple as everyone thinks they are *sigh*.

 

...why not display the following text above the Source section: "Warning: The disk will automatically be formatted before burn." (+ an optional linklabel to show the content of the disk in windows explorer). It would make the erase icon obsolete.

 

It already tells you when the disc needs formatting/erasing in the status bar.

 

The erase button is there because people sometimes like to erase without burning anything (to keep it empty for the next time they need it?) and some were too stupid to navigate the tools menu so I found a little bit of real estate and added the button.

 

Erase is NOT a primary function of ImgBurn and has no progress screen etc. It only works when a user has selected a 'Mode' and a drive has been selected/made active. When it becomes a proper feature / function the little button that you obviously hate so much will no doubt go.

 

 

You're obviously a programmer yourself, so where can I checkout some of your work? It must be AMAZING if you can spend all this time telling me how you think my GUI should look! Hell you could have probably written your own burning program in this time.

[LOCOENG]

I'm sorry, but this is yet another evasion of discussion.

 

It's an open forum, I've just as much right to take this topic off subject as you.

 

So you just like to argue, I'm sorry you call it discussing, and hijacking other peoples threads. Once you've been given your answer...

 

I can tell you right now that I won't be changing my little icons, I like them

 

...perhaps you should bugger off, but I'm sure being the twat you are you won't (now I'm hostile). So lets see your creations.

[lfcrule1972]

Sigh..... nonono you made your points, the programs author has told you why he won't be making the changes you would like to see, others like myself, loco and donta have also stated that the current design is pretty much accepted by everyone.

 

To be honest for a donationware program I don't think you will find any other author prepared to listen to comments and introduce them when they would be for the good of the majority. Other paid for programs have no such discussion, you pay your money and just have to lump it.....

 

I am struggling to see why you wish to continue this now - the boss has said no, he has explained why as well but you seem to want to keep putting your opinion out there.

[blutach]

I can't believe how restrained I have been all this time. Just keeping quiet sets a new record for me in being polite to fucking wankers.

 

Still, I must weigh in ...

 

There is no harm in discussing something, I don't understand why you think it's bad if I persist trying to discuss these items.

Because you've been told before by the guy who owns the bloody prog that he'll not be making the changes you want. Now, STFU and stop whinging like a 9 year old. No-one here is interested in having a mindfuck/debate with you, which, irrespective of whomever wins, will have absolutely no bearing on what actually happens in the GUI or any other part of the program.

 

Regards