Questions best brand CD and DVD

[dbminter]

Memorex farms out to Mitsubishi, CMC, and Ritek.  As far as I know, the only Memorex Mitsubishi media is their 24x CD-RW.  I've no idea why.    Maybe, 24x CD-RW simply just isn't made by CMC, the normal manufacturer of their CD-R's.

 

 

The only brand I know of that uses Mitsubishi otherwise is Verbatim.  However, Verbatim also farms out to CMC!   

 

 

Unfortunately, there's never a straight answer.  The company that puts their name on the package will decide to use one manufacturer for one product and a different one for another.  For Verbatim, they have cheaper media lines like the Life series so they use CMC since they're cheap, and their product reflects that.

 

 

Unfortunately, without an item number to go by on those Ridata, I can't compare them to anything on Amazon.com.  And even if I had an item number, what is available in the Brazilian market may not necessarily be the same thing that is available in the US market.  I have seen that type of packaging before, but I've never used them, so I can't comment on their quality.

[gamemaniaco]

1 I better get a mdisc or dvd media verbatim/taiyo Yuden? I see that many brands are manufacturing mdisc (Smartbuy, Verbatim and Ridata)

 

2 Pioneer is the best manufacturer of optical drives? also has the asus

[dbminter]

My next USB drive I'm going to try is an Asus Blu-Ray.  I'm holding on to my LiteOn USB because it has LightScribe capability.  Once I exhaust my supply of LightScribe CD-R's (CMC's, of course, so they're only for non-essential use.) I'll replace it with this Asus from Amazon.com I have bookmarked.  I'll try to remember when I get it to forward my experience with it.

 

 

I've never used mDisc.  I have an mDisc capable drive in the form of my LG, but I've never found any discs in store to try it out with.  All I know about mDisc is you need a DVD+R capable reader and that mDisc DVD's are about 10 times as expensive as DVD-R is.  $5 for an mDisc versus about 50 cents for a Verbatim DVD-R.  Oh, and I do know they don't use dyes.  They burn pits into the recordable surface.  This is why mDisc lasts much longer.  It's essentially like using the drive's laser to burn into a solid surface.

 

 

Pioneer was rated as one of the best manufacturers by some website I read it on a few months back.  My experience with them is 99% positive.  Only the inkjet dual layer DVD+R issue.  Oh, and one weird minor issue where when doing something, I forget what, to CD-R, the percent done counter counts backwards from 99% to 0% instead of 0% to 100%.  Like I said, it's weird. 

 

 

As I said, if you're getting Verbatim CD or DVD, be sure it says DataLifePlus on the label.  And you will probably not be able to find them in a brick and mortar store.  You'll most likely have to find them online.  Of course, that's the same story with Taiyo Yuden.  Unfortunately, brick and mortar stores want to sell you the cheapest material at the highest price.  They don't really care about the quality of the product.  The only way to get generally get quality media is online.

[gamemaniaco]

1 I am in doubt about buying an optical drive lg or Pioneer or Asus, I want to last longer

 

2 Mdisc not use anything organic? mdisc degrades by moisture and heat?

 

3 I really appreciate your help on high quality DVD media and I will continue my search in Brazil to buy verbatim DataLifePlus or taiyo

[dbminter]

I don't know for sure but mDisc should not be affected nearly anywhere near as much by heat and humidity.  However, of course, the actual test of an mDisc won't be until one reaches the supposed 100 year life span.  Of course, CD's and DVD's were also rated at 100 years and proved not to be that long lived.  The analogy of burning into rock is a good one for mDisc.  So, while heat and humidity would affect the surface of an mDisc like it would affect any surface, it won't break down because they're not "organic" in the sense that dyes are.  mDisc is essentially a hard surface that the laser burns depressions into.  Like I said, the idea of a laser burning pits in rock is an effective one.  So, heat and humidity will wear away rocks, too, but we're talking on a magnitude where you'd need far more of each to affect the writing surface of an mDisc versus an organic dye CD or DVD.

 

 

Supposedly, Blu-Ray recordable discs also don't use dye.  I've only read this once online and couldn't get any kind of follow up on what they do use.  But, if they do not use dyes, they should, theoretically, last longer than organo-dye discs.

[gamemaniaco]

1 is possible an update of ImgBurn to get support for Mdisc burning even my drive not being a mdisc drive?

 

2 bluray discs do not use organic dyes? this is true and last longer than a DVDR?

[dbminter]

No update should be needed.  An mDisc capable drive should, I would think, detect an mDisc has been inserted and perform the appropriate burning operation for the inserted disc.  Like how the drive can determine if a CD, DVD, or Blu-Ray has been inserted simply by reading the various ID strings from the disc.  In other words, the effective upshot of this is that any write operation sent by any software would be burned to the mDisc by the drive itself.

 

 

In fact, this comes directly from the mDisc FAQ site:

 

"The software you use will not make a diffierence in the lifetime of your data. Data lifetime comes from a properly-working drive engraving data on an M-Disc. The drive engraving function should not be affected by the software you use on the PC.  We find it difficult to recommend any one software package because individual needs vary and there are so many options. Mac OSX and Windows provide some basic capability.  We work with Nero and CyberLink and they both have some excellent software for archiving data.  We also use a number of shareware/freeware packages such as ImgBurn and Ashampoo in our lab work. We suggest you use the resources and information available on the web to checkout reviews of the software packages you are most interested in and use that information to help you make your choice.  The software you use will not make a diffierence in the lifetime of your data. Data lifetime comes from a properly-working drive engraving data on an M-Disc. The drive engraving function should not be affected by the software you use on the PC."

 

 

As you can see, it directly mentions they used ImgBurn.

 

 

As for if Blu-Ray recordable media doesn't use dyes, I asked in the Chat forum and never got an answer.    So, I Googled.  Found this:

 

"Write-once BD-R media is primarily based on inorganic dyes, found in HTL discs. Rather than re-type everything right now, I'm just going to quote from a TDK document available on their English-version Japanese site:

Quote:

The BD-R write-once type utilizes a recording layer of inorganic material. Since it is unaffected by exposure to light, it boasts outstanding archivability. Previous types of write-once type discs such as the CD-R, DVD-R and others utilized organic dye for their recording layer. The BD-R write-once type is based on a completely new concept for the recording layer utilizing a two-layer structure composed of silicon (Si) and copper alloy (Cu) inorganic materials. When heated by the recording laser beam, these melt and the Si and Cu alloy become a composite forming recording marks. Because the material is inorganic, it is not affected by light, thus realizing a disc with outstandingly high reliability in terms of archivability. (Fig. 6)

Mitsubishi (Verbatim/MCC/MKM) has attempted to recycle old CD/DVD line manufacturing equipment to create a new type of organic Azo-based LTH BD-R, although results on those discs has been less than desired. Even second-tier HTL BD-R from the likes of Ritek or CMC has been known to perform better than Verbatim LTH BD-R. Much of this depends on the drive, so future burners could well perform better. The jury is still out on this one. I really do hope MKM suceeds with LTH, because it could lower costs long-term, and keep media profitable for that industry."

 

 

So, good thing I switched from DVD+R DL for archiving double layer DVD's to BD-R's.  They write faster than DVD+R DL in terms of writing the amount of data versus the time it takes.  For instance, it takes 15 minutes to fill a DVD+R DL and about that time to fill a BD-R.  However, with the BD-R, you can have multiple copies of the image on the disc instead of just the one copy on a DVD+R DL.  And since they appear to last longer archivally, I'm glad I switched.

 

 

I did some more reading in the replies to that FAQ.  Seems that LTH DOES use dye.  Hence why Low To High BD-R has continually failed to last more than a year after burning.  I NEVER use LTH, always High To Low.

 

 

And, I read even further:

 

"Based on the user feedback we read, we also originally thought that LTH had very poor results. It turns out, however, that the very large majority of negative reviews on LTH are due to users who did not realize that their burners needed to be LTH-compatible, or did not check before purchasing LTH media. When you take out incompatibility issues, LTH media actually scores higher than the best HTL media. We rated it archival grade IF your burners are compatible. I cannot publish the link the our LTH data, as the article is not published yet (it will publish in the next 2 weeks), but it is a part of the ConsumerPla.net Blu Ray Blank Media Guide which is ongoing for another month or so.

As a note, while we feel that LTH media is appropriate for data archival, it is not clear to us that it is so for audio or video, since, despite the LTH hype, many audio or video players are still not LTH-compatible. On the other hand, almost all modern data players (i.e. for computer use) are LTH-compatible today. So, in my view, at this time, data storage/ archival is a perfect use for LTH, but don't put your music or video on it if you want to take it to a friend's:-)"

 

 

So, it seems the LTH media might only be problematic if you're trying to play a Blu-Ray video disc burned to LTH on players made before LTH was introduced.  That site claims LTH is perfectly fine for archival.  I'll stick with my HTL for now. 

[gamemaniaco]

1 my samsung drive SH-222BB not support the Mdisc, the firmware does not support the Mdisc and I have updated the firmware, I wanted ImgBurn receive an update to support Mdisc and I can burn mdisc this samsung drive

 

2 I did not know bluray discs did not use organic dyes, the bluray uses inorganic material it resists moisture and heat and has a longer shelf life than the DVDR? how many layers has a bluray? bluray has protection for scratches?

[dbminter]

Blu-Rays come in 3 layer formats: single layer BD-R, double layer BD-R DL, and triple layer BD-R XL.  BD-R are 25 GB.  BD-R DL are 50 GB.  And to confuse matters, BD-R XL are 100 GB and not 75!    Not all Blu-Ray drive support BD-R XL so far, though.  And, they are working on a quad layer BD that will support 125 GB.

 

 

The desingers of Blu-Ray claim it's scratch resistant.  I don't buy that.  If you tasked me with a Blu-Ray and a pair of scissors, I'm pretty sure I could scratch it.    However, I do believe Blu-Ray is more scratch RESISTANT than CD's and DVD's.  They have a special kind of coating on them that the others don't.

[gamemaniaco]

1 What are the types of dyes used in a Blu-ray disc? any manufacturer uses the same dye to blu-ray recordable?

 

2 layers I asked were other layers, the disc is sanduich between various layers and the Blu-ray has many layers?

[dbminter]

From what I quoted, it seems the inorganic dye used in HTL BD-R is some kind of zinc and copper alloy.  The laser melts the metals into pips that are interpreted as 1's and 0's.

 

 

As with CD and DVD, there are many kinds of dye manufacturers for Blu-Ray.  Yes, CMC makes Blu-Ray, unfortunately!    Ritek makes them.  TDK does.  And Verbatim can make its own, or maybe Mitsubishi makes it for them.  The Verbatim BD-R's MID has VERBAT in it, so I don't know if that means Verbatim itself makes them or if Mitsubisihi made it for them.

 

 

I don't know anything about the physical science of the layers in a multi-layer Blu-Ray.  I only know that there are no layer breaks like in DVD+-R DL.  When the burn reaches the end of one layer, it just starts burning to the next one.  I would have to say since there are multiple layers in BD-R DL and BD-R XL that would imply they're stacked on top of each other like in DVD+-R DL.

[gamemaniaco]

1 What is the difference between the HTL BD-R and the LTH BD-R?

 

2 Bluray uses reflective layer of organic silver and it will decompose? if the dye is inorganic reflective layer is not inorganic?

 

3 Which manufacturers use the HTL BD-R?

[dbminter]

HTL is High To Low and LTH is Low To High.  The names refer to the kind of reflectivity the discs offer.  I'm not entirely sure what the difference in the reflectivity means.  I'd guess by the use of the term reflectivity, the upshot would be that one has a better compatibility with players.  The reflectivity of a disc is often times the primary concern in how well a burner will handle a disc or a player will read one.  There is one other difference between HTL and LTH.  HTL means factories designed specifically to produce Blu-Rays.  LTH uses a process that converts CD and DVD factories to create Blu-Ray.  So, LTH, I would guess, uses organic dye.  LTH results in cheaper production costs but LTH media is problematic in drives and players that were made before LTH was created.

 

 

HTL I believe uses a layer of inorganic zinc and copper alloy.  LTH, I believe, is the one that uses an organic dye.

 

 

As far as I know, the reflectivity is not related to whether a dye is organic or not.  The reflectivity should be on the surface of the disc.  However, I don't know for this sure.  Physical properties of media are not my forte.

 

 

All manufacturers of Blu-Ray used HTL before the creation of LTH, naturally.  After the introduction of LTH, I know that the Memorex and Verbatim BD-R's I've used are HTL.  The only BD-R's I use now, the Verbatim, are HTL.  It's easy to tell if your discs are LTH because the packaging for LTH must be labeled as LTH.

[gamemaniaco]

1 I understood, bd htl is inorganic but the reflective layer of the htl is inorganic too?

 

2 here in Brazil I found blu-ray brands: Multilaser, Philips, Nipponic, Emtec, Maxprint, some of those brands uses the HTL inorganic?

 

3 It is possible to buy dvd verbatim or taiyo Yuden imported from the USA to Brazil? payment slip banking?

Edited February 17, 2015 by gamemaniaco

[dbminter]

I don't know anything about the composition of the reflective layer.  I couldn't tell you whether it's organic or inorganic.  However, if I had to harbor a guess, I'd say that a reflective layer wouldn't be organic.  I can't think of a reason why it would have to be.  But, I can't say for certain as I don't know.

 

 

I don't know about Brazil but in the US, if it doesn't say LTH it's HTL.  And LTH must say LTH on the package.

 

 

You could try contacting Amazon.com and see if they offer international shipping.  I don't know otherwise how you might get them imported.  If you can get them from Amazon.com, I can give you links to the discs I've bought before with good MID's.  I've only used Taiyo Yuden CD-R's as far as I know.  My DVD-R needs I get from Verbatim.  Actually, I recall having seen TY MID's before on discs I've used in the past.

[gamemaniaco]

1 on dvd if the reflective layer is in contact with the oxygen it oxidizes so I thought to be organic, the dye would be interesting and the reflective layer bluray be inorganic

 

2 of medias that I mentioned in the previous answer is that they are selling in Brazil which is the best brand is more reliable?

 

3 I have got in touch with amazon and still not answered, I will not buy CD-R I want to get the best dvd discs

[dbminter]

Are you talking Blu-Ray?  Either way, I've got one answer for all of them.

 

 

Multilaser: Never heard of them.

 

Philips: Probably CMC as their DVD seems to be CMC.

 

Nipponic: Never heard of them.

 

Emtec: I believe they have a very poor DVD record, so probably CMC.

 

Maxprint: Never heard of them.

 

 

If you're not looking for CD-R, then I don't have much direct, recent experience with Taiyo Yuden DVD-R.  I've come across a few of them over the years.  And Taiyo Yuden is recommended along with Verbatim by the author of ImgBurn and several other users.  So, I've also come to recommend TY based on their recommendations and Verbatim based on my own personal usage.

[gamemaniaco]

1 bluray the brands I mentioned here in Brazil, which is more reliable?

 

2 My friend told me that Taiyo Yuden is the best brand in the world, is this true? who makes this media?

 

3 Blu-ray discs use organic reflective layer que oxidizes on contact with oxygen?

[dbminter]

As I said, the only ones I had heard of before were Philips and Emtec.  Philips I believe had a reputation for poor quality media so I'd guess any Blu-Ray they make would be CMC.  Emtec I also believe has a bad reputation for DVD so their Blu-Ray would probably be CMC.

 

 

If you go back to my previous posts, there was some quoted text that contained a link to reviews of Blu-Ray media quality.  Those brands you mentioned might be reviewed in that link, so you might want to check it out.

 

 

Actually, I just looked for you.  You can thank me later.    http://blog.consumerpla.net/2011/01/best-blank-blu-ray-media-review-guide.html

 

 

The best brand in the world is subjective, of course.  I had no problems with the Taiyo Yuden media I came across and the author of ImgBurn and several other ISF Gods here also recommend the use of Taiyo Yuden.  So, it's definitely one of the best brands in the world.  I believe Verbatim is the best brand in the world simply because it was recommended to me years ago by LUK to try it and I've had little problems with them.  You should definitely have little problem with TY, but I've only ever bought their CD-R's, which were good quality.  So, for direct experience, I can't offer any relation.

 

 

I don't know anything about the reflective layers of Blu-Ray in terms of their composition.  So, I don't know if they oxidize on contact with oxygen.

[gamemaniaco]

thanks for your help

 

1 is possible to have support MDisc to update ImgBurn? my samsung drive does not support mdisc but ImgBurn can do this?

 

2 how many years of durability has a dvd media verbatim mitsubishi or taiyo Yuden?

 

3 media dvd TDK is good? is manufactured by CMC? I find it in Brazil, see the links: http://www.shopvirtua3000.com.br/Produto--DVDs-Virgens-Com-Logo-DVDR-TDK-16X-47GB-CLogo---01-Unidade-versao-1062-1061.aspx http://www.shopvirtua3000.com.br/Produto--DVDs-Virgens-Com-Logo-DVDR-TDK-16X-47GB-CLogo---100-Unidades-Pino-Lacrado-Unit-R-065-versao-1063-1062.aspx

 

http://www.shopvirtua3000.com.br/Produto--DVDs-Virgens-Com-Logo-DVDR-TDK-16X-47GB-CLogo---01-Unidade-versao-1062-1061.aspx

Edited February 18, 2015 by gamemaniaco

[dbminter]

ImgBurn does not need an update to burn mDisc.  Your drive must support mDisc.  If it does, it will have the mDisc logo on its front, usually.  My LG supports mDisc.  ImgBurn will write to mDisc according to mDisc's FAQ site.  But, I told you that already. 

 

 

As for long any media lasts, I can only tell you that cheap media like Prodisc last less than a year.  For a comparison, I can only offer my DVD+R DL from Verbatim made by Mitsubishi I burned back in 2009 are still readable.

 

 

I don't recall much information on TDK DVD.  I can relate their CD and BD from personal experience.  I had TDK CD-R that seemed to be pretty good.  I have some I burned 10 years ago that are still readable.  TDK makes Japanese packaging Verbatim BD-RE DL that I had no problems with.  However, TDK pulls a Verbatim in that they farm out their inkjet printable BD-RE to CMC!    Yet, I didn't have a problem with those BD-RE's.  But, who's to say CMC BD-RE media will last?    In fact, a follow up to my review on Amazon.com had one purchaser who said his only wrote twice before dying! 

[gamemaniaco]

1 to millenniata said you needed a firmware update the drive but my drive is with the latest firmware and not support the mdisc I thought a ImgBurn update function as a firmware and have support mdisc in my drive

 

2 a DVD of verbatim or taiyo can last 50 years or more?

 

3 I do not know if TDK is made by CMC or a good Japanese manufacturer

[dbminter]

A firmware update will not enable a drive that did not support mDisc to support mDisc.  It's hardware based, not software based.  HP got in big trouble in 2003 for claiming their DVD+R only capable drive could be made DVD+RW capable with a firmware update.  It simply can't be done that way.  The hardware has to support it before the firmware can.  Again ImgBurn just sends write commands to the drive.  As long as the drive supports mDisc, ImgBurn will burn data to them because the drive itself carries out the necessary hardware functions to perform the write.

 

 

I don't know how long any particular DVD media can last after burning.  When DVD recordable first came out, they said it would last 100 years.  However, a decade of tests later shows you will probably get less than half of that.  It's hard to say because we've only had like 13 years of recordable DVD media to test with in the field.

 

 

I found some TDK CD-R's I burned 10 years ago.  Ritek made them.  Now, my experience with Ritek media has been it's a good 2nd tier DVD manufacturer.  However, in Europe, Ritek seems to be of lower quality.  So, I'd say Ritek probably makes TDK's DVD's, but that's not necessarily so just because Ritek made their CD-R's 10 years ago.  Companies often switch manufacturers to save money, like Optodisc did switching to CMC.  Ruined their reputation with me and I'll NEVER buy another Optodisc product.

[gamemaniaco]

1 to milenniata told me that there is no need to change the hardware of the drive only with a new firmware was possible burn mdisc

 

2 companies often change dvd manufacturers, optodisc was manufactured by that company before going to the CMC? Ritek is reliable? what level of quality Ritek? Ritek and CMC are Taiwanese

[dbminter]

Wow, you're one of the fastest repliers I've seen here.  You're about as fast as I am! 

 

 

That means the drive always supported mDisc.  Why it wouldn't have firmware to write to mDisc BEFORE it was shipped out is beyond me.  Sounds suspicious to me.  Let's just say it's true that a firmware update will enable your drive to write to mDisc.  ImgBurn still won't need an update to write to mDisc.

 

 

Optodisc used to make its own media before switching to CMC and Lead Data, another cheap manufacturer.  As for Ritek reliability, I can still only relate my experience.    I've come across some Maxell DVD-R's that were Riteks that I burned 9 years ago and they're still readable.  In fact, I know this as recently as Saturday when I played a Maxell Ritek DVD-R burned in 2006.  Again I consider Ritek a good 2nd tier quality DVD.  Europeans report lower quality results with Ritek.