dbminter Posted July 13, 2006 Posted July 13, 2006 Looks more like the Hand Of Omega. Well, with a name like Genesis, they want you to expect a certain crippled scientist inside... so, it's probably... the script that was originally supposed to follow Revelation Of The Daleks before the old series got cancelled!
lfcrule1972 Posted July 13, 2006 Posted July 13, 2006 All will become clear soon - unless you really want me to spoil it for you.....
dbminter Posted July 13, 2006 Posted July 13, 2006 Some of it I know. Some I don't. So, unless it's been like 18 weeks I can wait.
lfcrule1972 Posted July 13, 2006 Posted July 13, 2006 I don't think you will be waiting that long either
dbminter Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 Wow, original Who got a mention on VH-1's I Love The 70's: Volume II for 1978! Probably because it was around that time it started making the PBS rounds in the US?
dbminter Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 I never saw it until the Playhouse videos came out around 1986, 1987? Funny story, I had seen one, but, never even knew it until years later. There was a local PBS station that when it went off the air, another station would come in scrambled on it. I was watching it one time and, years later, I realized it was an episode of... THE DALEK INVASION OF EARTH! It would just HAPPEN to get static, etc. at any point with Daleks which would have been a clear giveaway. :wink2: Oh, and, I had seen the Doctor Who And The Daleks movie before that, around 1983. I was a fan of Doctor Who for years before I ever saw an episode. I was such a fan of the Daleks merely on sight, after seeing them in a Starlog magazine and then my Spencer's Gifts miraculously having a copy of the 20th anniversary special magazine for Doctor Who, and at half price! Doctor Who finally aired locally on PBS in 1988. It ran until about 1991, enough to show the entire Tom Baker era twice. Except for Genesis Of The Daleks. They saved that one for a third extra repeat for a pledge week.
dbminter Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 Wow, the current season ender was a real cracker! Armies of Cybermen materializing on the Earth, marching into people's homes, threatening the children! Really terrific stuff! The Cybermen, having just announced their taking over the world to Earthlings, offer an alliance with the Daleks to upgrade the entire universe. Naturally, there is only one superior life form in the universe, and, it's on, baby! Daleks flying in the sky, indiscriminantly killing humans and shooting Cybermen, Cybermen firing at them from streets littered with dead bodies! Literally hundreds of Daleks appear at one point, even about, maybe, 50 Cybermen. Mickey returns, as does Rose's dad from the parallel Earth, who meets up with Rose's real mother. And, the Doctor loses Rose! I do fault Davies for having Rose narrate her own "death" because, if a character does that, you know they won't really die. :wink2: And, I'm not entirely sure I buy something. Maybe something I missed. But, if the Ghosts never spoke before, how did Rose's mom know that that ghost was her father? And, does the Genesis Ark really make much sense? Why would the Time Lords keep Daleks as prisoner? Isn't it standard SOP for a Dalek to blow itself up if it's captured? The Cult Of Skaro, eh, I don't think the idea really works well with given Dalek psychology, but, Davies has tampered with it in the past. "Since when do Daleks have a concept of blasphemy?!" The ending is daft but, I can't strike down what is a whole lot of fun! Davies did top himself over last season's ender.
lfcrule1972 Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 I have to agree on the Rose narration, as soon as I saw that I was sure Rose wasn't actually going to die - I heard whispers afterwards that the writers did originally intend for her to be killed but there was concern at how the army of young fans would take it so they opted for the death in "our" world but moving to the parallel universe where her Mum and parallel universe dad could be together..... As for the Ghost being Rose's Grandad, Dr Who actually covers this off when he is talking to Rose and her Mum, doesn't he say that it's not who her mum thinks it is (she mentions a smell of the cigarettes etc), Dr Who points out there is no smell or way to determine who it is - he notes that Jackie's desire for it to be her Dad is making her more and more convinced and allowing the Ghosts to seem more real.... Finally and maybe I misunderstood this but I thought the Genesis Ark was stolen timelord technology not a prison ship. I thought one of the cult members said it was Timelord Technology to Rose and Mickey but he never actually said it was a prison for Daleks, therefore the Cult had used it to preserve the Daleks for an attack. Using it they were able to transports hundreds of them in the Void ship to earth. Did you spot that the black Dalek transported somewhere before he was sucked into the void/breach ?? Dr Who always needs Daleks.....
dbminter Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 As for the Ghost being Rose's Grandad, Dr Who actually covers this off when he is talking to Rose and her Mum, doesn't he say that it's not who her mum thinks it is (she mentions a smell of the cigarettes etc), Dr Who points out there is no smell or way to determine who it is - he notes that Jackie's desire for it to be her Dad is making her more and more convinced and allowing the Ghosts to seem more real.... Okay, but, that only just explains away the ghosts. Not exactly why she'd immediately see a blank ghost and think, "Oi, that's me dad!" Finally and maybe I misunderstood this but I thought the Genesis Ark was stolen timelord technology not a prison ship. I thought one of the cult members said it was Timelord Technology to Rose and Mickey but he never actually said it was a prison for Daleks, therefore the Cult had used it to preserve the Daleks for an attack. Using it they were able to transports hundreds of them in the Void ship to earth.I think you did misundertand. The way I remember the dialogue, the Daleks claim the Ark is Time Lord technology, and, the Doctor keeps wondering what Time Lord technology. When the Doctor sees it open and the Daleks emerge from it, he says it was a prison for the Daleks. That the Time Lords had captured them and held them there. Did you spot that the black Dalek transported somewhere before he was sucked into the void/breach ?? Dr Who always needs Daleks..... Well, it wasn't like Davies tried to hide it. He purposefully wrote it so the Black Dalek appears on camera, clearly says, "Activate emergency temporal shift!" or something to that effect, and we see it disappear. We probably should NOT have seen this. Film it and then use it as a "HOW DID YOU ESCAPE?!" flashback for a later episode. I loved how surprised the Black Dalek was when Rose told it she had met the Emperor. "The... Emperor survived...?!" So incredulous! So, if we accept the novelization of Remembrance Of The Daleks as canon, that means there have been 9 Daleks that have had consciousness of their own individual existence. The 3 human Daleks the Doctor created (And, yes, untold numbers of other humanized Daleks created on Skaro. ) in The Evil Of The Daleks, the Emperor Dalek (The real ones, not Davros. ) the Special Weapons Daleks, aka the Abomination, and the 4 members of the Cult Of Skaro. Does this mean, then, that the Black Dalek is the only member of the Cult Of Skaro that survived? The others looked exactly like the others sucked into that vortex. Of course, there's always the problem of a term like "the last Dalek." As you said, the Doctor always needs Daleks. So, they'll always be around. As long as the BBC doesn't piss off the Terry Nation estate and they pull their part of the license! Like they almost did for the 2005 season. But, there are problems. For instance, the Dalek who lamented he was the last of his kind in Dalek. Did he not have access to the Dalek history files? In just 50 years, the Daleks would invade Earth! And, even if he did scan the skies with Earth technology and did not find any Daleks, they would have to be out there to invade the Earth in the future. All he had to do was wait. OH! And imagine the temporal anomalies THAT would cause! The Daleks that invade Earth, being "past" Daleks, would have access to a Dalek of future technology and files on the future! After all, remember Davros's intention with that tape from Genesis Of The Daleks?
lfcrule1972 Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 I think Jackie (and the others who saw the Ghosts) just wanted them to be relatives back from the dead - she said they were scared and ran around to start off with, until they realised they weren't going to hurt them.... Ah ok, will need to watch that again - I did miss the Dr saying it was a prison ship..... I prefer that we saw the Black Dalek escape, it's all to easy to do a clever flashback to explain their re-appearance in the next series.... Perhaps the other three members of the cult of Skaro also escaped, as you said there were so many daleks flying around who would be able to tell ?
jack Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 I agree, the Dr did say it was a prison ship. But he didnt say that the Timelords imprisoned the Daleks in it, my feeling is that the Daleks stole a prison ship and then stored Daleks in it while they hid in the gap between worlds. Just a thought. On the ghost thing, once everybody got used to the fact that they werent going to harm anyone you would start to wonder who it was who kept returning to the same place all the time. And as Jackie has been very lonely since Rose and Mickey went off, I suppose it was just wishfull thinking on her part. The one person who is dead that she misses more than Rose would possibly be her dad. The Dalek in "Dalek" was badly damaged in the time war, possibly in the final battle that saw the Timelords and the Daleks wiped from history. It's a fair assumption that it would then beleive that the Daleks had been totally wiped out for ever once and for all. It wouldnt know about the Cult of Skaro Daleks that hid in the gap when things began to look terminal for the Daleks. I agree, Davies has thrown up a lot of anomalies and I reckon if pushed he would use the parallel world scenario to explain it. They Cybermens history gets just as complicated with Mondas being destroyed in 1984, I think it was
jack Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 This is a good place to check out: The Dr Who Reference Guide. It covers all the books, comic stips and radio shows as well as the TV series. Personnally I think there is just way too much Dr Who history for everything to agree. Theres always going to be contradictions in a series this old. It even makes K9 go round in circles at times!!
dbminter Posted July 20, 2006 Posted July 20, 2006 Yeah, for instance, that's probably why Day Of The Daleks is so conveniently just undone by a time paradox. And, yet, there are also cases where people overly complicate things. For instance, the "problem" with rectifying The Evil Of The Daleks with the destruction of Skaro in Remembrance. I see a very easy way to link the two without having to rely on the currently accepted idea that Genesis started a splintered, alternate history of the Daleks when the Doctor interfered with their birth. It's simple: just set Remembrance after Evil, like it airs. Because Remembrance, like Evil, uses time travel, just because Skaro is destroyed when the Doctor is in 1963 doesn't mean that Skaro cannot be in a time period AFTER Evil. IMO, it makes perfect sense. That Skaro would be ripe picking for Davros and an army of his gold and white Daleks to move in and reclaim it, with the Emperor's army all but destroyed. (After all, in Evil, Daleks were show to still be surviving. Just because the Doctor said it was the final end doesn't have to be so.) So, the old Imperial Daleks, vastly outnumbered, go on the run to survive, and, Davros sets himself up as the new Imperial Emperor and chuns out an army of new Daleks that reclaim Skaro. Thus, the now Renegade Daleks, the 4 or so original ones seen in Remembrance, are the last vestiage of the old Imperial army. And both learn of the Hand Of Omega. As the Doctor said, he didn't expect two Dalek factions, and, IMO, this easily explains it away and rectifies the seemingly conflicting "final" Dalek stories. QED OH! WAIT! Here's a better one. Change only one thing above. Infer that all the old Renegade Daleks DID die on Skaro. Because, this idea also rectifies a dangling plot about Davros. The Imperial Daleks return to Skaro with Davros for trial post Revelation, and, discover that they are the last of the Daleks. Davros works his magic, like from Resurrection, and secures a loyal Dalek to escape with. Quickly, he sets up a shop and churns out his army of loyal Daleks before the returning Imperials can. Thus, the Daleks seen in Remembrance that were of the old order are actually the Imperial ones seen from Revelation. Yeah, I like that idea better.
lfcrule1972 Posted July 21, 2006 Posted July 21, 2006 Do you actually work db ?? You seem to have a lot of time on your hands mate
dbminter Posted July 21, 2006 Posted July 21, 2006 Remember? I need... alibies... that establish I was at X place at Y time...
jack Posted July 21, 2006 Posted July 21, 2006 Crikey db! My heads spinning just reading your theories!! You know way too much about Daleks! Just watched "Doomesday" again tonight and Mickey asks the Dr if the Timelords put the Daleks into the prison ship and he doesnt answer, so that leaves it open for interpretation IMHO. Looking at the way the Daleks operate the controls on the side of the Ark, they fit the Daleks suckers perfectly. That sort of suggests to me that it was built by the Daleks from stolen timelord tech. It makes sense to me that way, anyway. Otherwise it gets way too confusing for me Why would the Timelords imprison Daleks using technology that would be invaluble to them if they did escape? The Timelords arent that stupid, are they?
dbminter Posted July 22, 2006 Posted July 22, 2006 Crikey db! My heads spinning just reading your theories!! You know way too much about Daleks! I like to think so. Looking at the way the Daleks operate the controls on the side of the Ark, they fit the Daleks suckers perfectly. That sort of suggests to me that it was built by the Daleks from stolen timelord tech.That's a very good point. It means either the Daleks built it from advanced science captured from Time Lords or adopted some pre-existing Time Lord technology to fit them. BUT, here's a bigger question. Regardless, WHERE did they get it? If Gallifrey was destroyed in the Time War... Why would the Timelords imprison Daleks using technology that would be invaluble to them if they did escape? The Timelords arent that stupid, are they? But, why would the Daleks put themselves in a prison? As for any situation like this, the Time Lords, of course, NEVER thought they'd lose it to the Daleks. Same with any prison. It's great IF the prisoners don't rise up and take it over for themselves.
jack Posted July 22, 2006 Posted July 22, 2006 BUT, here's a bigger question. Regardless, WHERE did they get it? If Gallifrey was destroyed in the Time War... Maybe the original thinkers in the cult of Skaro anticipated defeat and stole it before the final battle as a means to ensure Dalek survival. Adapting TimeLord technology to fit Dalek puposes would take time, so I would guess they stole or captured it quite a while before the final battle. But, why would the Daleks put themselves in a prison? As for any situation like this, the Time Lords, of course, NEVER thought they'd lose it to the Daleks. Same with any prison. It's great IF the prisoners don't rise up and take it over for themselves. Desperation would be the only reason why they would do it. They knew they were in danger of losing and used it a last resort to ensure survival.
digidragon Posted July 26, 2006 Author Posted July 26, 2006 Just been watching some filming for the christmas special. We were about three feet away from David Tennant & Catherine Tate. Ms Tate (as the bride) was sooooooo loud hailing a taxi during a take. We were also near a fake Dr Who ATM as it was spitting out fake notes. My workmate got two of them as a souvenir. We also went in the pub where David Tennent and Catherine Tate were resting between takes. But we missed them by about 30 seconds. But am I bovverred...!?!?
lfcrule1972 Posted July 26, 2006 Posted July 26, 2006 The kids would love to be there for the filming digi !! I am not bovvered at all that you are there and I am not Did you see the BBC confirmed the more adult nature of Torchwood means it will be on in the Autumn after 21:00 on BBC3 ?
dbminter Posted July 26, 2006 Posted July 26, 2006 I've heard that Daleks will have their globes replaced with boobs! Their battle cry will be "IN-SEM-IN-ATE!" and they will called Daliks.
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